Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

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edatoakrun said:
The ~$70k Jag handily beat the ~$80k X and the (identified clearly three times in the video, X 100 D) <$100k X from zero-to-60-to-zero and now the sore losers are whining that Jaguar didn't show it tested against the ~$150,000 version of the X.

EatsShootsandLeafs said:
...I was very disappointed to see Jaguar deceive in their Jaguar vs X, video, though. If you haven't seen the drag race, let me just remind you that the ipace has a 0-60 of 4.5 and the Tesla P100D has a 0-60 of 2.9 seconds. Now watch the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fErFiWjoeCQ

If you're at all confused and missed the slight of hand, it is explained here:
https://electrek.co/2018/03/01/jaguar-i-pace-tesla-model-x-drag-race-video/

I think Jaguar is better than this and obviously a number of people were "tricked".

its not a $70k jag. go to the online configurator. the options adders are way worse than Tesla. The car shown racing is likely about $85k-$90k. The $70k is like the $35k Model 3. In fact even worse. Anyone willing to pay $70k for a car will end up with $75-$80k if they just put the most basic options into the car, and most will be closer to $90k. Just go with a basic Model X. It will also be able to replace your daily driver and the winter vehicle.
 
palmermd said:
... go with a basic Model X. It will also be able to replace your daily driver and the winter vehicle.
I assume you're joking?

I doubt an X would make it up my driveway after a light snow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie79Jk9Ob2s

On the bright side, if you high-center your X on a rock, the flaming TSLA battery pack might keep you warm for a while...
 
palmermd said:
its not a $70k jag. go to the online configurator. the options adders are way worse than Tesla. The car shown racing is likely about $85k-$90k. The $70k is like the $35k Model 3. In fact even worse. Anyone willing to pay $70k for a car will end up with $75-$80k if they just put the most basic options into the car, and most will be closer to $90k. Just go with a basic Model X. It will also be able to replace your daily driver and the winter vehicle.
I tried configuring days ago and no prices.

Now they have prices.

The base $70k option doesn't even have adaptive cruise. GTFO. For $70k no adaptive cruise? In 2018? You also need the $86k variant to have dimming side mirrors and a heated steering wheel. I can't tell for sure but it appears that the base version's "Luxtec Sport Seats" are not even leather.

Starting to think this is just a compliance car after all.

For $25k less than the "first edition" of this thing you could buy a Volvo XC60 T8 plug-in Hybrid with 400 horsepower and more options than this ipace has. Bigger also, and frankly looks better.
 
edatoakrun said:
palmermd said:
... go with a basic Model X. It will also be able to replace your daily driver and the winter vehicle.
I assume you're joking?

I doubt an X would make it up my driveway after a light snow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie79Jk9Ob2s

On the bright side, if you high-center your X on a rock, the flaming TSLA battery pack might keep you warm for a while...
I bet the ipace would crush that offroad test :roll:

Here's an X causing a toyota land cruiser to roll over and go to sleep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcn01JPAnpo

I actually want to see some other brands come out with good EVs. I am probably going to cancel my model 3 reservation because of Tesla's bullsh*t rollout. But that doesn't change the fact I will call a spade a spade and for the price this ipace is looking unimpressive. I'd take a Model S all day before this thing, and the S would smack it upside the head in any metric other than being very slightly less capable with luggage capacity. I think it's a stretch comparing a 2 row "crossover" to an X, which has three rows.
 
I'd think it's obvious that neither the X or I-Pace are designed for serious off-roading. They are AWD CUVs, and as such they should be fine on plowed roads, or unplowed roads which have say 6" or less of snow on them, or reasonably graded unpaved roads, which is exactly what the people who buy them use them for. My Forester's the same; I've never suffered under the delusion that it was designed to handle the Rubicon Trail, but summer or winter it gets me to trailheads or up/down driveways with a full load of gear just fine.
 
GRA said:
I'd think it's obvious that neither the X or I-Pace are designed for serious off-roading...
With close to 8" of ground clearance and very short overhangs, the I-PACE is obviously going to be capable of travel over far more challenging surfaces than an X, or your forester.

edatoakrun said:
The one factor that has me remain a little bit interested in the I-Pace is that it is the first BEV at any price, that could replace both my daily driver and my off-pavement/Winter 4wd:

...Height-adjustable air suspension drops the I-Pace 1.6 inches from the standard setting at a stop for easy passenger entry and exit, lowers by 0.4 inch at speeds above 65 mph to further reduce drag, and can raise it 2.0 inches for off-road work. Hoban says the I-Pace can wade through water almost 20 inches deep. “Our BEV has a real depth of character,” he says. “It’s a real SUV with sports car characteristics.”...
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-jaguar-i-pace-quick-drive-review/...

No, the I-Pace not intended to be an electric Land Rover, but that's coming soon...
 
This breast-beating is silly.
One of the things I admire about Tesla is they stay pretty true to their mission in all things marketing.
Because they want to advance sustainable transport, it's very unlikely we'll see Tesla do a stunt like Jag; throw shade on another EV. Sure, Tesla will drag race an ICE car while towing the same ICE car because that serves the mission.
I'll be curious to see if this was a one-off by JLR marketing or part of a zero-sum strategy by Jaguar to avoid diminishing it's own ICE sales. If it's more than a brief effort to attract attention by having a Tesla in the headline then, I'm pretty down on Jag and those that run the show there because they just don't get it.

From what I've seen, the I-Pace is a great first effort. Better than we've seen from anyone besides Tesla so far, Tesla does extremely well competing for sales against ICE vehicles of the same class. If I-Pace is a Tesla competitor then it's also an F-Pace, Audi Volvo, Daimler competitor.
The proper drag race is between the I-Pace and an Audi A5,Q5, BMW X3,X5 5-series and even JLRs own Land Rover Velar (or whatever).
In fact, at my local JLR dealer I intend to test drive both the Velar and I-Pace back to back.
 
sparky said:
...I'll be curious to see if this was a one-off by JLR...
It's not.

edatoakrun said:
New Jaguar XJ BEV to launch at end of 2018, Road Rover BEV in 2019?

JLR heads considerably upmarket from the I-Pace, for its next BEV launches.

New Road Rover model to launch in 2019

New Land Rover model line will kick off with an electric-powered XJ-sized luxury vehicle


Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) will stun the automotive world by launching a new model line, the Road Rover, before the end of the decade, Autocar can reveal.

The first production vehicle will be a premium all-electric model, aimed primarily at markets such as California in the US and China.

The first Road Rover is understood to be a Mercedes-Benz S-Class rival in terms of outright luxury and interior craftsmanship but with some 'all-terrain' capability. The car will also be tuned for impressive on-road dynamic performance, taking advantage of the potential delivered by electric motors.

The car could make its public debut at the Los Angeles motor show in late 2019, with sales starting soon after. Prices are expected to be pegged at around £90,000 for the top-line versions.

...Autocar understands that the first Road Rover model is being developed in parallel with the next-generation XJ. The underlying structure for both of these vehicles is a new-generation aluminium architecture that can accommodate both battery packs and piston engines.

It's thought that the new XJ and the Road Rover will both be pure-electric vehicles with twin electric motors and on-demand all-wheel drive...
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/new-road-rover-model-launch-2019

edit title, 1/22/18
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=24644&hilit=jaguar

edatoakrun said:
Next Jaguar F-Type to go all-electric... as early as 2021 or 2022.

Assuming this story holds true, it definitely needs its own thread.

Glad to see Jaguar is one of the growing number of manufacturers that realize there is no room in its cars for an ICE drive-train.

Next Jaguar F-Type to go all-electric

IN A RADICAL move, Jaguar’s iconic two-door sports car will soon do without an engine.

A top-secret project currently underway at the brand’s design and engineering centre in Gaydon will see petrol engines dropped altogether for the radical all-electric Jaguar F-Type replacement due as early as 2021 or 2022.

Despite the lack of internal combustion, the futuristic Jaguar two-door sports car will be the fastest car ever to wear the leaper badge courtesy of electric motors and a bespoke new architecture tailored to take advantage of the design freedoms offered when a traditional drivetrain is not part of the equation...

It’s that promise that also prompted the board-level decision to scrap traditional drivetrains altogether for a next-gen sports car, in the process sidestepping the halfway-house trend towards hybrid propulsion...

Entry-level cars will stick with a rear-drive setup, while more expensive models will run electric motors at both ends, delivering drive to front and rear wheels.

It’s the AWD version that aims to reset the two-seater performance benchmark for Jaguar, with early internal targets nominating a sub-3.0 second 0-100km/h time...

Key to the design will be new generation lithium-ion batteries, currently under development in conjunction with the University of Warwick. The batteries promise almost double the energy density of current automotive cells, so as well as a 500km-plus range and fast charging capability, they will be significantly smaller and lighter than the batteries we
know today...
https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1712/next-jaguar-f-type-to-go-all-electric
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25085&hilit=jaguar
 
edatoakrun said:
sparky said:
...I'll be curious to see if this was a one-off by JLR...
It's not.
....
By "one-off" I meant a one-off marketing stunt. Not a one-off vehicle. It's clear Jag has to go EV to stay relevant. They acknowledged as much in the I-Pace focus groups I participated in. Some of the Jag owners were hesitant about the shift but most all in the room coveted the Model X sitting at the far end, close to the I-Pace.
 
edatoakrun said:
GRA said:
I'd think it's obvious that neither the X or I-Pace are designed for serious off-roading...
With close to 8" of ground clearance and very short overhangs, the I-PACE is obviously going to be capable of travel over far more challenging surfaces than an X, or your forester.
Oh really?

  • I-Pace / 2003 Forester XS
Length OA: 184.3" / 175.2" -9.1"
OA Width: 84.2" / 68.3" -15.9"
Height: 61.6: / 62.6 +1.0"
Min. Grd Clearance: 5.6" / 7.5" +1.9"
Wheelbase: 117.7" / 99.2" -18.5"
Turning circle: 39.3'/ 34.8' -4.5'

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/forester/forester2003.html and https://www.auto123.com/en/new-cars/technical-specs/subaru/forester/2003/base/25-x/ the latter for the OA width.

https://www.jaguar.com/jaguar-range/i-pace/specifications/index.html

ISTR seeing approach/departure angles for my Forester somewhere (maybe in the owner's manual) but don't have that handy, and can't find it online for it or the Jag, although I did find some info comparing the 2016 Forester and Outback at https://www.reddit.com/r/subaru/comments/52qnfu/why_does_a_foresters_angles_make_it_better_than/, not that that's relevant to my 2003 or the I-Pace.

As you can see, the Forester beats the Jag in every off-road relevant dimensional category except height (with approach/departure angles unknown), but while I chose it over the Outback partly for its shorter length and better turning circle (for making those multi-point U-turns when the 1-lane road ends and you don't want to back 1/2 mile) as well as it being IIRR 200 lb. lighter, that still doesn't make it a Jeep, Land Rover, Land Cruiser. G-class or (getting really obscure here, but I've seen a few) Pinzgauer. The lack of a low range and locking hubs/differentials as well as much too limited ground clearance precludes that.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
If you're at all confused and missed the slight of hand, it is explained here:
https://electrek.co/2018/03/01/jaguar-i-pace-tesla-model-x-drag-race-video/

I think Jaguar is better than this and obviously a number of people were "tricked".
No I do not buy that argument.
It was clearly said the P100 would be faster but cost twice as much so no point in comparing.
Very clearly stated it was a standard 100D.

Regardless I would have the Jaguar over the X any day.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
palmermd said:
its not a $70k jag. go to the online configurator. the options adders are way worse than Tesla. The car shown racing is likely about $85k-$90k. The $70k is like the $35k Model 3. In fact even worse. Anyone willing to pay $70k for a car will end up with $75-$80k if they just put the most basic options into the car, and most will be closer to $90k. Just go with a basic Model X. It will also be able to replace your daily driver and the winter vehicle.
I tried configuring days ago and no prices.

Now they have prices.

The base $70k option doesn't even have adaptive cruise. GTFO. For $70k no adaptive cruise? In 2018? You also need the $86k variant to have dimming side mirrors and a heated steering wheel. I can't tell for sure but it appears that the base version's "Luxtec Sport Seats" are not even leather.

Starting to think this is just a compliance car after all.

For $25k less than the "first edition" of this thing you could buy a Volvo XC60 T8 plug-in Hybrid with 400 horsepower and more options than this ipace has. Bigger also, and frankly looks better.
I went through the options and selected two minor items totaling $450. I think I could enjoy the base model just fine.

Really surprised me that the fabric seats were more than leather.
 
smkettner said:
Regardless I would have the Jaguar over the X any day.
Can't agree without haven't driven the I-Pace. But I would choose it over any ICE CUV, SUV or sedan. I wish we'd all get off this I-Pace vs Model X divertissment. It's useful only for helping to sell more oil burning Audis, Mercedes, BMWs, Lexus', etc.
 
smkettner said:
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
If you're at all confused and missed the slight of hand, it is explained here:
https://electrek.co/2018/03/01/jaguar-i-pace-tesla-model-x-drag-race-video/

I think Jaguar is better than this and obviously a number of people were "tricked".
No I do not buy that argument.
It was clearly said the P100 would be faster but cost twice as much so no point in comparing.
Very clearly stated it was a standard 100D.

Regardless I would have the Jaguar over the X any day.
All I can say is what I've already said but I will reiterate that multiple people had the same impression of this video as I did. We found it deceptive.

As for the off-roading capabilities of the X, the i-pace, the BMW X5, any any other expensive SUV, anybody pretending these are used off road by more than, say, 1/200 people buying them is smoking crack. Stop it. These things are all staying on paved roads, all the time. Maybe they get used on gravel once in a blue moon.
 
Still no EPA range for the I-Pace, AFAIK, but I have seen the NEDC (old euro) range reported several places:

JAGUAR I-PACE VS TESLA MODEL X 75D: HOW DO THEY COMPARE?
...The I-Pace does a claimed 298 WLTP miles, which is 336 NEDC miles. The Model X 75D does a claimed 259 NEDC miles, so the Jag wins somewhat comfortably...
https://drivetribe.com/p/jaguar-i-pace-vs-tesla-model-x-BYwTwYk7QPuXwdrsjzHPwQ?iid=Q01TS1VvTi2sIhHRO2nJIg

To compare the I-pace's NEDC range to TSLA vehicles' NEDC ranges with similar battery capacities, the I-Pace's reported 336 miles is ~541 km (reported elsewhere as 543 km).

Tesla Model X 90D 488 km

Tesla Model S 90D 557 km

Tesla Model 3 Long Range 592 km
https://evtripping.com/faq/cars/

edatoakrun said:
...
GRA said:
edatoakrun said:
It should be discussed, on another thread, why the WTLP ranges for some BEV manufacturers report substantially identical ranges on both the EPA and WTLP test cycles, and why other BEV manufactures report ~20% lower range to the EPA, than they do for the WLTP.
Don't need another thread...
Seems pointless to me to try to discuss on the I-PACE thread as long as the EPA range for the I-PACE remains unknown...

GRA said:
...I imagine it's due to weight and drag differences between cars, and the relative weighting of the different cycles.
Imagine whatever you like, but the reported results for the few BEVs with both ratings seem to me to show no rational relationship to the factors you mention.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
As for the off-roading capabilities of the X, the i-pace, the BMW X5, any any other expensive SUV, anybody pretending these are used off road by more than, say, 1/200 people buying them is smoking crack. Stop it. These things are all staying on paved roads, all the time. Maybe they get used on gravel once in a blue moon.
Dirt roads sometimes too, but definitely not jeep trails. FTM, the % of people who buy vehicles with true off-road capability who actually use them for that probably isn't much higher than the 1/200 you guesstimate above. MY friend's 4Runner has been put in 4H (never mind 4L or locking the hubs) exactly once in its 17 year lifetime, to exit a muddy parking lot, but it's been hauling around all that excess drivetrain weight plus front and rear brush guards and skid plate all those years.
 
Informed speculation bringing together multiple sources, definitely worth reading, IMO:

Jaguar and Chevy have LG in common

BY JEFF NISEWANGER on MARCH 9, 2018 • ( 0 )

The Jaguar I-PACE is a swanky new all-electric SUV with a generous wheelbase, a large 90,000 watt-hour battery pack and a $70,000 starting price. The Chevrolet Bolt EV is a small hatchback wagon with a 60 kilowatt-hour pack and a rather basic interior that starts at around $37,000 before rebates and credits.

Although these vehicles come from different makers and are targeted at different customers they appear to share similar battery cells within liquid-cooled packs that ride underneath the floor as a structural part of the vehicle unibody...

Wolfgang Ziebart, Jaguar’s Technical Design Director, stated in a 2017 interview with Automotive News said the I-PACE concept contained cells which are 58 Ah. Jaguar has also said that the peak voltage of the pack when fully charged is kept just under 450V. Higher pack voltages can allow for somewhat quicker charging when using present generation fast chargers that are current limited to 125A.

With 3.7V as the nominal voltage per cell the 108 cells in series would be a nominal 399.6V. When a battery is charged the voltage rises and such a pack could be a bit over the 450V top limit of the stated I-PACE design when full. GM has documented that the Bolt EV’s nominal pack voltage is 350V and with 96 cells in series that works out to 3.65V for each cell group. Bolt EV owners have reported pack voltages between 395V and 400V when fully charged using tools connected to the car’s OBD II internal vehicle monitoring port. This, together with the conflicting voltage claims of 3.6V and 3.7V on the Chinese commerce sites, suggest 3.65V as a realistic nominal cell voltage resulting in either 212 Wh of energy capacity at 58Ah or 219 Wh at 60 Ah.

This would be about 91.5 kWh assuming 58 Ah cells for the I-PACE...
https://electricrevs.com/2018/03/09/jaguar-and-chevy-have-lg-in-common/

1,000 cycles (to 80% remaining DOD) shown in one of the spec charts, x 298 mile WLTP range suggests I-PACE pack life should only be of concern to those with the most serious cases of capacity anxiety...
 
Via ABG:
Jaguar I-Pace vs. Tesla Model X and Model S: How they compare on paper
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/08/jaguar-i-pace-vs-tesla-model-x-s-comparison/

Vs. X/S75Ds. One thing that really stands out is that while the I-Pace is a considerably smaller and lighter car than the Model X (the S is bigger, and only slightly heavier), its predicted EPA range of 240 miles from a battery pack that's 20% larger than the Teslas is only 3 miles more than the X, and 19 less than the S. The extra power and torque would appear to be killing the range. As the article notes where it really has an advantage is on price compared to the X, especially once Tesla hits 200k. IMO they really need the EPA range to be significantly better than the X75D. We'll just have to wait for the official EPA number to see if it is.
 
I-pace owner's manual available.

Most interesting reveal, that a 320 PS variant is planned:

http://www.ownerinfo.jaguar.com/document/4K/2019/T19977/29937_en_GBR/proc/G2172331

Same battery pack, and only~17 kg lighter, but presumably being developed for higher efficiency and lower cost.

http://www.ownerinfo.jaguar.com/document/4K/2019/T19977/29937_en_GBR/proc/G2164447

BTW, note that the GVW is about 100 LBS short of qualifying for the Hummer Deduction.

So, as of now, it looks like if you claim business use and want the really big money from Uncle Sam to help buy your BEV, you will still have to buy a Tesla X, to get the 100% deduction.

Of course, Jaguar could probably tweek the USA I-pace's GVWR, if it wants to...
 
This poster gave a little write-up from Geneva Auto Show:

...The two main reasons I've never bitten the bullet and bought a Tesla is (a) the cost - thanks to Brexit and the plummeting £, it's now a really expensive car in the UK (£108K for a reasonably specced 7-seat X100D with premium, AP & FSD) and (b) the minimalistic, austere interior....
...I was really wanting to like the iPace. I expected it to tick all the boxes re a relatively sumptuous interior compared with a Tesla, and to be comfortable and roomy without being quite so enormous on the outside (MS and MX are both very large cars in the European context).
However, I was very disappointed....

I am still looking forward to seeing / driving this Jag EV.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2612450/
 
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