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palmermd said:
EVDRIVER said:
Yes it was fixed unlike the LEAF. Also be careful what you read, many of these "failures" falsely stated and the I doubt an owner can diagnose a drive failure. But keep trolling the Tesla forum for FUD to post here. Perhaps you can post some of the LEAf and other EV or car maker issues as well. Make a chart, I know who will come out on top.

Can i take a 10 day vacation and leave my Model 3 plugged in at home and come home and drive it?
You would want to turn off 'always connected' and if you have any 3rd party apps that look at data for your car regularly (www.TeslaFI.COM, etc) then use their options to allow your car to go into a deep sleep.

Haha, the problem is there are so many apps to look at and track cool data that some cars only go into sleep mode and not DEEP sleep mode.

None of this matters if you are plugged in in your garage but if you leave your car at the airport you should let it DEEP sleep and not check the battery regularly (waking it up).

6Ef75dh.jpg
 
EVDRIVER said:
mtndrew1 said:
My Volts, Soul EV, and Leaf all have literally zero vampire drain. I’ve always been a little perturbed that Teslas have any whatsoever. But so it is.

I guess if you disconnect the 12v battery on the LEAF....

I’ve left my Leaf parked for several weeks unplugged while abroad and returned to the airport with the exact same battery percentage.

Maybe my car is an anomaly but I’ve experienced literally zero vampire drain.

I’ll contrast to my Model 3 when it arrives. I expect the Tesla to burn up at least a few miles per day.
 
scottf200 said:
palmermd said:
EVDRIVER said:
Yes it was fixed unlike the LEAF. Also be careful what you read, many of these "failures" falsely stated and the I doubt an owner can diagnose a drive failure. But keep trolling the Tesla forum for FUD to post here. Perhaps you can post some of the LEAf and other EV or car maker issues as well. Make a chart, I know who will come out on top.

Can i take a 10 day vacation and leave my Model 3 plugged in at home and come home and drive it?
You would want to turn off 'always connected' and if you have any 3rd party apps that look at data for your car regularly (http://www.TeslaFI.COM, etc) then use their options to allow your car to go into a deep sleep.

Haha, the problem is there are so many apps to look at and track cool data that some cars only go into sleep mode and not DEEP sleep mode.

None of this matters if you are plugged in in your garage but if you leave your car at the airport you should let it DEEP sleep and not check the battery regularly (waking it up).

6Ef75dh.jpg

I think most everyone missed the point of my response as it relates to EVdrivers post. Both Tesla and Nissan had a problem with the 12v battery on an unattended car for long periods. Tesla sent OTA updates to the car and resolved the problem. My 7 year old leaf continues to do the same thing even after getting 3 or 4 updates that required me to take the car to the dealer. If i leave my car sitting while going on vacation, I can expect to return to a dead car every time.
 
palmermd said:
scottf200 said:
palmermd said:
Can i take a 10 day vacation and leave my Model 3 plugged in at home and come home and drive it?
You would want to turn off 'always connected' and if you have any 3rd party apps that look at data for your car regularly (http://www.TeslaFI.COM, etc) then use their options to allow your car to go into a deep sleep.

Haha, the problem is there are so many apps to look at and track cool data that some cars only go into sleep mode and not DEEP sleep mode.

None of this matters if you are plugged in in your garage but if you leave your car at the airport you should let it DEEP sleep and not check the battery regularly (waking it up).

6Ef75dh.jpg

I think most everyone missed the point of my response as it relates to EVdrivers post. Both Tesla and Nissan had a problem with the 12v battery on an unattended car for long periods. Tesla sent OTA updates to the car and resolved the problem. My 7 year old leaf continues to do the same thing even after getting 3 or 4 updates that required me to take the car to the dealer. If i leave my car sitting while going on vacation, I can expect to return to a dead car every time.
Thanks for clarifying. Wow, I did not know there was still an on-going issue with the LEAF and 12v battery. I've taken our Volt's in for more than one software update. They download to a USB and then plug that in my car as I understand it :) If I had a LEAF with that issue I'd put it on a trickle charger.
 
M3 firmware is getting many updates but these go in stages not to all users each time as the test control groups. The M3 has a new design for load management and also DC/DC use. Additionally any power management software will be continually updated as well. Unlike the old S that used quite a bit it will end up significantly better, even later S cars had a new DC/DC implementation to help. I would guess that ultimately the 3 should be on par or better than any other EV on the market.
 
EVDRIVER said:
M3 firmware is getting many updates but these go in stages not to all users each time as the test control groups. The M3 has a new design for load management and also DC/DC use. Additionally any power management software will be continually updated as well. Unlike the old S that used quite a bit it will end up significantly better, even later S cars had a new DC/DC implementation to help. I would guess that ultimately the 3 should be on par or better than any other EV on the market.
It's very good to hear that Tesla has focused some effort toward addressing this issue. Management of 12V power consumption has been a real issue for many EVs.
 
RegGuheert said:
EVDRIVER said:
M3 firmware is getting many updates but these go in stages not to all users each time as the test control groups. The M3 has a new design for load management and also DC/DC use. Additionally any power management software will be continually updated as well. Unlike the old S that used quite a bit it will end up significantly better, even later S cars had a new DC/DC implementation to help. I would guess that ultimately the 3 should be on par or better than any other EV on the market.
It's very good to hear that Tesla has focused some effort toward addressing this issue. Management of 12V power consumption has been a real issue for many EVs.

In later S models they added a small DC/DC inside the pack. The 3 has some pretty radical designs in every area including 100% solid state fuses, etc. The reason so many companies are buying them to tear them apart is for good reason, there is some pretty amazing tech in the car and the safety redundancy is very well done. What few know is that the 3 has many many redundant systems other EVs do not have that add to the cost, it not just a comparison of range, TS size, etc. Safety systems and safety crash design are also some things that are different than other cars. Much of what is well done on Tesla is not know or overshadowed by FUD and anti Tesla hype.
 
A reality check by a typically bullish Tesla writer:

Most people are probably aware of Elon Musk’s punctuality issues by now. After all, the Model 3 is not the first Tesla automobile to arrive late to market. However, this particular vehicle arguably has the future of the entire company riding on it. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people waiting on their Model 3s to arrive. Not to mention the countless millions the company is continuously losing due to the inadequacies of its Model 3 launch.

By estimates prior to a few months ago, Tesla should have been producing at least 5,000 Model 3 vehicles per week by now. Moreover, the company should have been producing well-built vehicles, with a low-cost model available, and most importantly at a profit (or at least close to it by now).

Unfortunately, the reality of things appears to be much different. Assuming Bloomberg is accurate in what it’s reporting (I believe for the most part that the reporting is accurate), Tesla is producing a mere 655 Model 3s per week right now. This is far fewer than the 1,052 vehicles per week the company was producing a few weeks ago when I wrote my last Tesla article. Furthermore, this is fewer than the figure Tesla cited at the end of Q4, when the company claimed production capacity neared 1K vehicles per week in the last weeks of the year. This was two and a half months ago, not exactly the production curve I was looking for.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4155567-model-3-hits-another-speed-bump-time-hit-brakes-teslas-stock?auth_param=1adagi:1dad7or:64c7fc1f6a0e38e41b4ce69b8e66f8db&uprof=44&dr=1
 
lorenfb said:
A reality check by a typically bullish Tesla writer:

Most people are probably aware of Elon Musk’s punctuality issues by now. After all, the Model 3 is not the first Tesla automobile to arrive late to market. However, this particular vehicle arguably has the future of the entire company riding on it. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people waiting on their Model 3s to arrive. Not to mention the countless millions the company is continuously losing due to the inadequacies of its Model 3 launch.

By estimates prior to a few months ago, Tesla should have been producing at least 5,000 Model 3 vehicles per week by now. Moreover, the company should have been producing well-built vehicles, with a low-cost model available, and most importantly at a profit (or at least close to it by now).

Unfortunately, the reality of things appears to be much different. Assuming Bloomberg is accurate in what it’s reporting (I believe for the most part that the reporting is accurate), Tesla is producing a mere 655 Model 3s per week right now. This is far fewer than the 1,052 vehicles per week the company was producing a few weeks ago when I wrote my last Tesla article. Furthermore, this is fewer than the figure Tesla cited at the end of Q4, when the company claimed production capacity neared 1K vehicles per week in the last weeks of the year. This was two and a half months ago, not exactly the production curve I was looking for.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4155567-model-3-hits-another-speed-bump-time-hit-brakes-teslas-stock?auth_param=1adagi:1dad7or:64c7fc1f6a0e38e41b4ce69b8e66f8db&uprof=44&dr=1

Thank you for your well thought out post and for being such a valuable aggregator of fine information here, we value your contributions that have helped so many of us blind sheeple. You are practically as much of a savior as your sources and we never get tired of such welcome information! Keep up the good work...
 
Dear lorenb and Ed,


You’ll be happy to know that I had to take my Model 3 (#2292) to the Tesla Service Center, after 2 months and 6000 miles. After reading posts by the both of you, I was sure it would be a horrific experience, that would cost me a lot of money, and take a lot of time (if Tesla was still in business).

I arrived unannounced at the Tesla Service Center at 6:45am. Nobody would help me! They just locked the doors to keep me out. GM or VW would never do this, as I’m sure they are open 24/7. You guys know that.

When they did finally feel like opening the doors, I was ready to pounce, knowing that they might try to weasel out from fixing my car.

I told them the first problem... the Over-The-Air software update had a failure message. GM and VW cars never fail with OTA updates... you guys know that. They agreed to manually update the software, but I knew that this was a ploy to hide all the REAL problems with the car, that I’ve learned about here from you both.

Then I told them about the right front window hesitating when going up or down. I knew this could be a precursor to the door physically falling off the car. GM and VW cars have never had a window fail... you two both know that.

Anyhoo, ten minutes later, they told me that the software was successfully uploaded (and I got a notification on my smart phone from the Tesla app). Obviously, we know that’s a lie, am I right? Plus, they found that the window regulator may have an issue, so they ordered a new one. What?? The part isn’t in stock? All GM and VW parts are always in stock... you both know that.

Anyhoo, I’m so, so disappointed. They wasted 10-15 minutes of my day, didn’t have all the parts, weren’t even open when I got there, and had the NERVE to ask if I had an appointment (I didn’t).

I’m going to trade in my 310 mile range Tesla for a GM Bolt EV or VW eGolf , so that these issues NEVER happen again.

Thanks for all that you both do.

Hugs and kisses,

Tony.
 
I read an article that said Tesla service centers are set up as fishing sites to steal information over unsecured networks. The entire model to do OTA updates is just a way to break things and make you come in for service. Once in there the Tesla app connects your phone to their network and gets all your personal information. The entire article is on the "Seeking alpha troll" site and is reposted on "Inside shills". I'm starting to think Elon is secretly working to get the Russians to Mars as well. Since the holograms are no longer working they have taken now measures to con everyone.
 
scottf200 said:
You would want to turn off 'always connected' and if you have any 3rd party apps that look at data for your car regularly (http://www.TeslaFI.COM, etc) then use their options to allow your car to go into a deep sleep.

Haha, the problem is there are so many apps to look at and track cool data that some cars only go into sleep mode and not DEEP sleep mode.
There's a little bit of vampire drain from the battery heater, etc; I initially lost 2-3 miles/day.

But then there's the larger drain caused by 3rd party apps (I use TeslaFi) polling the car for state changes. E.g,. TeslaFi wants to know when I start driving so that it can provide all sorts of interesting stats. The drain this causes for a parked car could be avoided if Tesla provided a server-side indicator that the car was awake (and if the car told the server it was being turned on).
 
TonyWilliams said:
Anyhoo, ten minutes later, they told me that the software was successfully uploaded (and I got a notification on my smart phone from the Tesla app). Obviously, we know that’s a lie, am I right? Plus, they found that the window regulator may have an issue, so they ordered a new one. What?? The part isn’t in stock? All GM and VW parts are always in stock... you both know that.

Did they keep your Model 3 until the part was back in stock?

My LEAF has been at the dealer since Wednesday Feb 28th...went out to leave that morning to a Christmas tree light display of warning lights. Even though I probably shouldn't have, I put the car in gear only to find out that the ABS system had failed in an interesting way--basically it was stuck forcing my brakes OFF so I had no way to really safely stop the car (I probably would have designed the system to fail in a failsafe way with ABS disabled and just let the actual brakes work without ABS, but that's just me).

I made an appointment with the dealer who couldn't get me in until Thursday the 1st. They did not provide towing, but fortunately I had Nissan roadside assistance that did. So I called them. They sent out a truck. But apparently the wrong kind of truck, because of the brilliant move by Nissan to stop including the tow hook with LEAFs since 2015, so the guy had no way to hook up the tow cable to pull my car onto the flatbed truck. So I had to call Nissan back and get them to send a different kind of tow truck. Another hour goes by and finally I get towed to the dealer...when they inform me that their two and only two LEAF guys are both out at training and wouldn't be back until Tuesday the 6th. And oh, they don't have loaners, but I can RENT a car from them. If it turns out to be a warrantable item (I see no reason why it wouldn't be, but they made sure to let me know that there are reasons it wouldn't be and that I would be on the hook to pay for the rental, even though I had to wait for THEIR guys to show up before they could let me know if it was under warranty!) then they will charge back Nissan and it will be free to me...but of course they only have one vehicle available. Not electric mind you, and the wiper fluid sprayer doesn't even work on it.

Keep in mind even someone as untrained as myself knows it's probably the ABS system, which is surely quite similar to just about every other Nissan vehicle they work on, but no, they have to wait for the actual LEAF guys to look at it.

Anyway, Tuesday comes, no update. Wednesday and I get a call that gave me no real information other than that they've opened a ticket with Nissan. I guess the LEAF guys didn't learn much at their training!

Finally on Thursday they tell me they have a part on order, so progress, but it won't be until Friday or Saturday until they get it in and can work on the car.

Now it's Monday the 12th. I've been without my car for almost 2 weeks, and still no word as to whether or not it's actually going to be ready any time soon.

Granted, in this case my car was not driveable, but in the past, Nissan has kept my vehicle for 2 weeks at a time waiting for tickets to be responded to, parts to come in, and repairs to be made, even though the car would have been driveable.

Now I love my LEAF, but it's really a pain having an electric vehicle from a brand that really hasn't gotten their dealership network behind the idea of really supporting it.
 
Anyone that wants to avoid parasitic loads on any EV can put a small connection terminal to the 12v battery and connect to a battery maintainer. This significantly reduces drain since the 12v charge cycle will be ignored more as most of the drain is pumps, large contractor, etc. The telematics can check in with less 12v cycling and the additional losses with overhead. When parking a few days or more this is an easy solution for those that care.
 
A little bump in production this week to 737. Bloomberg's chart showing production versus the targets that Elon Musk has provided gives a good feel for just how far off those promises have been:

Tesla_Model3_Production_Versus_Targets.png


Aren't we supposed to be seeing 2500 cars/week in two weeks? I don't think it's going to happen. Time to add another dotted line to the graph.

I'm not convinced production of the Model 3 will exceed global production of the Nissan LEAF at any time in 2018. We'll see.
 
RegGuheert said:
A little bump in production this week to 737. Bloomberg's chart showing production versus the targets that Elon Musk has provided gives a good feel for just how far off those promises have been:

Tesla_Model3_Production_Versus_Targets.png


Aren't we supposed to be seeing 2500 cars/week in two weeks? I don't think it's going to happen...

I don't think it actually will either, but remember this: the Bloomberg tracker is a lagging indicator, tracking anywhere from post-production (but pre-delivery), delivery, and even post-delivery timeframes. So even if Tesla does hit a 2500/week PRODUCTION milestone, it won't show up in the Bloomberg tracker for another 2-4 weeks minimum.

The other thing to remember is that it's not a forecast tool. While we'd like to imagine the production rate as a nice smooth S-curve or straight line as is shown in the chart, that's not the reality of how production rate increases will manifest themselves, which will be more of a stairstep.

So here's what I think will end up happening. Despite what Tesla says, I don't think they will really be able to exceed 1000/week rates until the new Grohmann equipment is installed and running. And despite the fact that they said end of March, I think there will probably be at least a week delay in getting it installed, and another week before it's checked out and running at capacity. So I would expect 2500/week output from the Gigafactory in mid-April, which would probably not even translate to 2500/week output from Fremont until beginning of May best case, and then finally in the beginning of June that rate would be evident in Bloomberg's tracker.
 
lpickup said:
So here's what I think will end up happening. Despite what Tesla says, I don't think they will really be able to exceed 1000/week rates until the new Grohmann equipment is installed and running. And despite the fact that they said end of March, I think there will probably be at least a week delay in getting it installed, and another week before it's checked out and running at capacity. So I would expect 2500/week output from the Gigafactory in mid-April, which would probably not even translate to 2500/week output from Fremont until beginning of May best case, and then finally in the beginning of June that rate would be evident in Bloomberg's tracker.
So they are still being limited by the batteries?

One thing I've seen in the past is that once a known bottleneck is cleared, other previously-unknown bottlenecks appear that become the new limiting factor, albeit at a higher production rate.
 
RegGuheert said:
So they are still being limited by the batteries?

One thing I've seen in the past is that once a known bottleneck is cleared, other previously-unknown bottlenecks appear that become the new limiting factor, albeit at a higher production rate.

This is all just speculation on my part, but yes, I believe the bottleneck is still at the Gigafactory. And while I agree with you that clearing up one bottleneck will only reveal ones farther down the line, but at this point there should have been ample opportunity to stockpile a good batch of batteries in order to burst test the line downstream. There was the "robot timing" issue that was highlighted, so maybe that's also part of the problem, but I guess more than anything it's more the lack of communication that says "Gigafactory production is now at X" (where X is some high number) leads me to believe that the battery issue hasn't been resolved. Now maybe they just won't comment on that at all until the next earnings call, but I have to think that kind of information would make its way out one way or another.
 
WooHooo. I just (yesterday evening) got the email invitation to configure my car. As far as I know I'm the first (or at least the first batch) one to be invited who is not a previous Tesla owner. I could have configured and placed the order last night if I wanted a $49k car, but we plan to just wait for the standard range option to become available and save $9k.

Even though we are still waiting, its exciting to see the changes to the MyTesla page with the option to configure and purchase the car.
 
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