ranss12
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:31 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Apr 2012
Leaf Number: 18901
Location: South of Rochester, NY

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:09 am

I expect (hope) that when they tear down the packs and test the cells, the bad cells get thrown into the recycle bin, the good but degraded cells get installed in energy storage packs (second life), and the refurbished pack gets new cells for use in our LEAFs. that seems to me the only way this whole thing makes economic sense for anyone.

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Nubo
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Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:56 pm

powersurge wrote:I really cant see this refurb thing unless you put new cells into your old battery case that is already matched to your car.

I makes no sense to sort out old cells and go through all the labor to re-install them. Its like taking apart a car engine and replacing the pistons and crankshaft with used junkyard parts.... Yes, it would work, but for how long, and is it worth the labor and effort?


The cells are built into modules, and from what I've seen the modules were not made to be disassembled. That means they'd have to manufacture complete modules. By the time you manufacture a full complement of new modules I don't think there is enough cost savings available from using the stamped metal case and assorted cables and cards, to get you down to half-retail considering the labor involved. It seems to me that harvesting the best modules from the salvage flow is the only way to make this work. And why else would they be touting their ability to "innovatively" analyze used batteries?
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

FairwoodRed
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Location: Fairwood, WA

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:16 pm

I found the below article on Reuters and pulled out some of the highlights. It sure looks like these will be re bundled cells with about 80% of new capacity. In my situation, it took me 3 years to get to 51Ahr (80%) and almost another 4 years to get to where I am now. So I can pay $2800 for 4 years ($700/yr) or $5000 for 7 years ($714/yr). At about the same cost, having the extra range for a few years is appealing.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nissan-battery/nissan-spins-up-new-plant-to-give-second-life-to-ev-batteries-idUSKBN1H30DD

The batteries will be produced at the new factory in Namie by reassembling high-performing modules removed from batteries whose overall energy capacity has fallen below 80 percent.

Modules with capacities above 80 percent are assigned for use in replacement Leaf batteries; lesser modules are reassembled and sold as batteries for fork lifts, golf carts, and lower-energy applications such as streetlamps.

Makino said it would be difficult for 4R to completely break down and recycle EV batteries on its own

The plant can process 2,250 battery packs a year, and initially plans to refabricate “a few hundred” units annually, Makino said

goldbrick
Posts: 274
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Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:44 pm

FairwoodRed wrote:Modules with capacities above 80 percent are assigned for use in replacement Leaf batteries


Hmmm, I wonder if this is what I'll get when my 30kWh pack loses its 4th bar....

armmynissanleaf
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Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:32 pm

Always do acts of kindness in this world.
TorqueNews Nissan

garsh
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Location: Pittsburgh PA

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:44 am

On one hand, upgrading an old, degraded 24kWh Leaf to 30kWh for $3k sounds like a pretty good deal.

On the other hand, the 30kWh batteries appear to have much worse degradation issues.

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2012 Black SV, 7 bars, 101,000 miles

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RegGuheert
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Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:01 am

FairwoodRed wrote:I found the below article on Reuters and pulled out some of the highlights. It sure looks like these will be re bundled cells with about 80% of new capacity. In my situation, it took me 3 years to get to 51Ahr (80%) and almost another 4 years to get to where I am now. So I can pay $2800 for 4 years ($700/yr) or $5000 for 7 years ($714/yr). At about the same cost, having the extra range for a few years is appealing.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nissan-battery/nissan-spins-up-new-plant-to-give-second-life-to-ev-batteries-idUSKBN1H30DD
Thanks for the link!

It seems like a reasonable approach. OTOH, with a car that has range as limited as the MY2011-2015 LEAF, the vehicle is quite a bit more useful with new capacity versus 80% capacity. For my wife's commute, that is the difference between heat and no heat on her commute in the wintertime.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

hmmwv
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Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:14 pm

I would say if Nissan can guarantee that the refurb packs retain about 95% of new capacity, which equals to about 60AHr, then I wouldn't have any problem buying them at half the cost.
2013 LEAF SL w/Premium Pkg, Brilliant Silver, 55,244 miles, LeafSpy: 50.17 AHr, SOH 76%, Hx70.30% as of 11/05/2018, 10 bars, 28 QC, 2129 L2/L2

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9831
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:25 pm

hmmwv wrote:I would say if Nissan can guarantee that the refurb packs retain about 95% of new capacity, which equals to about 60AHr, then I wouldn't have any problem buying them at half the cost.


Thanks for the chuckle!
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
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Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:57 pm

Collecting modules that are above 80% (or is it 85% ?) SOH restricts the recyclers to batteries retrieved from pretty new cars totaled in accidents unless they plan to label old modules as good enough via some short acting sleight of hand like over-charging. And even if the former, they will run into the previously mentioned problems of module balancing which was the bane of Prius recyclers.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
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2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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