SageBrush
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Location: Colorado

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:30 am

NissanClient73 wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Was your battery down to 4 bars of capacity back in 2016 ?

As for getting wrong information from a Rep over the phone -- I consider that par for the course these days, and not just Nissan. Unless you have something in print from Nissan that supports you, you have nothing.


I corrected a typo in my previous post, March 2017

The dealer recorded that the battery lost 4 bars of capacity in March 2017.We purchased Nissan 2012 in late December 2011.

We have a document with a case number from Nissan, that was opened in March 2017. I consider that as a written agreement. It is not my fault that the case should not have been opened. Nissan representative created a document and closed it without any explanation. This is not right.

Ahh ... now the story changes.

So your 5yr/60k degradation warranty expired before the 4rth capacity battery was lost.
For Nissan, that is the end of the regular warranty story. Finito. I understand that NIssan reversed itself once they realized that they had made an error, but that is their right.

As for whether the "Gold" extended warranty also extends the degradation warranty, Leftie says no. If you post the document here we all can voice an internet opinion.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
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Evoforce
Posts: 827
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
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Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:01 am

I also have a "Gold" on one of my Leafs. I was told years ago that it does not cover Battery Degradation. They consider battery degradation a diminishing consumable. It is expected to degrade. But, if you can get them to do otherwise, I want to be able to use your case to my advantage when it comes time for me to (again) change my traction battery on that car. Good luck and please let us know!
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

cwerdna
Posts: 8198
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:10 am

NissanClient73 wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:
You mean a dealer sold you a "gold coverage warranty”? Is it in writing that it will extend the battery capacity loss warranty and by how much/until what time?


This is probably the "Gold Preferred" plan that I got as well. It extends the factory warranty completely, but the original factory warranty doesn't cover gradual capacity loss, so the extended warranty does not cover the 24kwh Leaf for it, either.


The capacity loss was included to the original factory warranty — 5 years or 60000 miles in 2013. We received a letter from Nissan regarding that.

The Gold proffered extends warranty to 8 years or 100000 miles. That is why the leaf specialist who opened our case number stated that we have time till 2019. Apparently, that was incorrect, that is why our case number was closed.

I'm asking the bolded question again.

Do you have any WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION for whatever extended warranty you bought that states what I asked in bold.

I have yet to hear any verified claims of ANYONE in the US who actually has/had a valid extended warranty that actually extends the battery capacity warranty. There are a few weirdos on a few Leaf FB groups who I've seen claim they have one but when asked for proof, they're smug, evasive, never provide it then disappear.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

NissanClient73
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:47 am
Delivery Date: 10 Apr 2018
Leaf Number: 016549

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:45 am

SageBrush wrote:
NissanClient73 wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Was your battery down to 4 bars of capacity back in 2016 ?

As for getting wrong information from a Rep over the phone -- I consider that par for the course these days, and not just Nissan. Unless you have something in print from Nissan that supports you, you have nothing.


I corrected a typo in my previous post, March 2017

The dealer recorded that the battery lost 4 bars of capacity in March 2017.We purchased Nissan 2012 in late December 2011.

We have a document with a case number from Nissan, that was opened in March 2017. I consider that as a written agreement. It is not my fault that the case should not have been opened. Nissan representative created a document and closed it without any explanation. This is not right.

Ahh ... now the story changes.

So your 5yr/60k degradation warranty expired before the 4rth capacity battery was lost.
For Nissan, that is the end of the regular warranty story. Finito. I understand that NIssan reversed itself once they realized that they had made an error, but that is their right.

As for whether the "Gold" extended warranty also extends the degradation warranty, Leftie says no. If you post the document here we all can voice an internet opinion.


Thank you so much for your support. I already mailed a package with all the documents attached to the application - the dealer inspection report with the case number from Nissan to BBB. I am not going to post the document on the public forum as it contains our private information.

If Nissan has a right to revert the decision based on the “mistake” they made, we will lose this case. I think it is worth trying. In the beginning of this thread a number of people have mentioned that they contacted BBB and got the battery. I will remind you again, that the topic is about the out-of-support warranty that was offered during the time I filed the case with Nissan. If the extended warranty does not cover the battery degradation, they shouldn’t have told me that. Instead, they should have offered 80-20% deal as they offered it to other clients in this thread. We were just 3 month out of warranty with excellent car maintenance record.

I am done writing in this thread for now. I will inform you of the BBB’s decision once I get it.

SageBrush
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 am

I wish you luck with your case. I must sound negative but reading stories of how Nissan treats its customers does color my perspective. And, though IANAL, I suspect that Nissan has the legal edge here.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
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DaveinOlyWA
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:11 am

This is another case of an out of warranty qualifier who did not take advantage of Nissan discounts immediately thinking that the special promo would go on "forever" and it did not just as its disclaimer said it wouldn't.

Its the same as getting the price of an item advertised "while supplies last"

There are several who waited for whatever reason and few (if any) got any consideration for not taking advantage of the program while it was in effect.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
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cmwade77
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:04 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2017

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:45 pm

SageBrush wrote:
NissanClient73 wrote:Ahh ... now the story changes.

So your 5yr/60k degradation warranty expired before the 4rth capacity battery was lost.
For Nissan, that is the end of the regular warranty story. Finito. I understand that NIssan reversed itself once they realized that they had made an error, but that is their right.


Actually, if they ever said that it was covered, then it is covered and they have to stand by that, both from a moral and legal standpoint. I actually had this kind of an issue with one of the water pumps (by the way, the Leaf has two water pumps in case anyone was curious). They first told me it wasn't under warranty, so I asked them to send it to the Customer Assurance person that told me to ask them to do so. Well a couple hours later, the dealer calls and tell me that it is covered under warranty as part of the powertrain warranty. I of course documented this fact and then the dealer calls me back and says they made a mistake and it isn't covered. I said something to them and Nissan, pointing out that they already said it was covered and that now claiming the same part isn't covered is wrong. As I told them, if it failed because I did something wrong, then I would understand them claiming it isn't covered, but there were no allegations that it was in anyway my fault.

Of course the manager at the dealership gets involved at that point and agrees with me that they will fix it for free because they said they would. To this day, I don't know if Nissan or the dealership paid for the mistake, but someone did and it wasn't me.

The overall point is once they say it is under warranty, it is under warranty unless they can prove that the customer did something wrong or intentions that caused the part to fail, for example taking a hammer to it.

So, yes they should absolutely fight Nissan on it and insist that Nissan step up and do the right thing because they said it was under warranty.

SageBrush
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:15 pm

cmwade77 wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
NissanClient73 wrote:Ahh ... now the story changes.

So your 5yr/60k degradation warranty expired before the 4rth capacity battery was lost.
For Nissan, that is the end of the regular warranty story. Finito. I understand that NIssan reversed itself once they realized that they had made an error, but that is their right.


Actually, if they ever said that it was covered, then it is covered and they have to stand by that, both from a moral and legal standpoint. I actually had this kind of an issue

I think your are confusing the actions of the dealerships with the law. See here:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/201 ... /index.htm

In a general way, there is symmetry in tort law. Just like you the consumer can say "oops, I made a mistake" and not be held to your earlier statements or promises, the same holds for the retailer. Imagine that you call a shop and find out that only one widget remains in stock. You promise to head right over and buy it. But after you close the telephone you have a change of heart. The retailer cannot force you to buy the item. And I daresay you would put quite put out if the retailer called you up later and told you that he had charged your account, regardless of whether you collect the item.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
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2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9361
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Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:29 pm

I actually had this kind of an issue with one of the water pumps (by the way, the Leaf has two water pumps in case anyone was curious). They first told me it wasn't under warranty, so I asked them to send it to the Customer Assurance person that told me to ask them to do so. Well a couple hours later, the dealer calls and tell me that it is covered under warranty as part of the powertrain warranty. I of course documented this fact and then the dealer calls me back and says they made a mistake and it isn't covered. I said something to them and Nissan, pointing out that they already said it was covered and that now claiming the same part isn't covered is wrong. As I told them, if it failed because I did something wrong, then I would understand them claiming it isn't covered, but there were no allegations that it was in anyway my fault.

Of course the manager at the dealership gets involved at that point and agrees with me that they will fix it for free because they said they would. To this day, I don't know if Nissan or the dealership paid for the mistake, but someone did and it wasn't me.

The overall point is once they say it is under warranty, it is under warranty unless they can prove that the customer did something wrong or intentions that caused the part to fail, for example taking a hammer to it.


I'm sorry, but the reason that you eventually got the water pump warranty repair done for free was that it actually was under warranty. The entire EV drivetrain, battery pack excepted, is covered for five years. If the part had not been covered, and the dealer had mistakenly said that it was, then Nissan would have put no pressure on the dealer to make the repair, and likely would not have compensated them for doing so.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

mlarm
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Leaf Number: 006754

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:46 am

I'm sitting here at my computer in Sacramento,CA, just off the phone with Nissan EV support.

What a difference a year makes. :| I'm told by the seemingly knowledgeable person on the other end of the line that there is no out of warranty battery support any more for 2011/2012 cars that drop below 9 bars out of the warranty period. But they do have a financing program, to set up payments on the full cost of replacement.

So at this point I'm not certain what I'll do going forward. My car was one of the first delivered here, in 2011. Sacramento has a brutally hot summer (keeps out the riffraff). Apparently, the fact that I took good care of the car, only put 42,000 miles on it, and went in and paid the fees for the regular battery "tests" at the dealership has worked to my disadvantage. Because it took until yesterday to drop to 8 bars.

Like a lot of the entries here, the dealer warranty guy sold me the 8 year gold warranty on the basis of the battery being a part of the package.

Which, of course, if you read the damn thing, it's not. So after telling people who asked about the car and Nissan's support of it for the past six or seven years how it's been a great car for us, and how I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one, I'm going to need to amend my statements. They will now include, "But if you buy the first model year of any Nissan product, there's a chance they'll leave you flapping in the breeze."

It's a shame, because I really do like the little car. But the combination of how the dealership has treated at least one warranty issue (refusing to cover a software change to repair a problem with the regen braking) and this obvious systemic failure of the 2011/2012 battery design, has left me with some genuine doubts about how committed the company is to the longer term satisfaction of their customer base in the electric car demographic.

I guess I'm just tired of being told that Nissan, as a company, can't control the actions or ethics of their dealers.

Unless you've not been following the news, there are some reasonable alternatives manufactured by other companies in the electric car marketplace now. If anyone from Nissan is reading this, you might want to report that to your people higher up the food chain.

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