Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Advertisement from Nissan:

The average American drives less than 37 miles per day. With a maximum range of up to 107 miles, the Nissan LEAF® SV & SL can take you nearly three times that distance on a single charge.


It is on Nissan’s website
 
NissanClient73 said:
Advertisement from Nissan:

The average American drives less than 37 miles per day. With a maximum range of up to 107 miles, the Nissan LEAF® SV & SL can take you nearly three times that distance on a single charge.


It is on Nissan’s website

As it was pointed out you "can do" 107 miles in a 2011 Nissan Leaf on a single charge, but it is not the official range figure. Marketing talk. Caveat emptor.
 
Yep. "up to" means under specific conditions that result can be achieved.
It most certainly does not mean that result will be seen in everybody's daily driving.

Humans can run 100 meters in as few as 9.58 seconds.
For me it is probably closer to 30 seconds, but YMMV
 
Valdemar said:
As it was pointed out you "can do" 107 miles in a 2011 Nissan Leaf on a single charge, but it is not the official range figure. Marketing talk. Caveat emptor.

Misleading advertising is prohibited by law. I am surprised there was no class action for that yet.

Some people do not realize, that consumers are not specialists. Consumers should not be expected to perform their own research prior to purchasing the product.

All information provided by the seller should be clearly and fully disclosed.
 
NissanClient73 said:
Valdemar said:
As it was pointed out you "can do" 107 miles in a 2011 Nissan Leaf on a single charge, but it is not the official range figure. Marketing talk. Caveat emptor.

Misleading advertising is prohibited by law. I am surprised there was no class action for that yet.

Some people do not realize, that consumers are not specialists. Consumers should not be expected to perform their own research prior to purchasing the product.

All information provided by the seller should be clearly and fully disclosed.

How much more disclosure do you really need other than the official EPA range ratings? Also, most 2011/12 purchasers had to sign a disclosure form that clearly explained what range should be expected from the car under real world driving conditions in different scenarios. The only illusion I had when I bought the car was about the battery longevity, not the range. The class action about the abysmal longevity has already happened, if you did not opt out at the time you're now a part of the class and cannot sue Nissan separately. You can try the BBB route to get a new battery out of Nissan as many of us successfully done, but given the age of your vehicle it will likely be an uphill battle.
 
NissanClient73 said:
Valdemar said:
As it was pointed out you "can do" 107 miles in a 2011 Nissan Leaf on a single charge, but it is not the official range figure. Marketing talk. Caveat emptor.

Misleading advertising is prohibited by law.
It sure is, but the bar in determining that something is misleading is actually pretty high.
E.g., consumer inability to think logically is insufficient.

You can go into a courtroom and say "After reading UP TO 107 miles on a charge, I *felt like* they meant I would get over 100 mile per charge in my daily driving," but you are going to have a short time in front of the judge before s/he throws out the case.

ALL advertising is by its nature partial information that is supplied with a hefty dose of spin. It is rare that any of it reaches the level of misleading. Consider that headache pill you are thinking of taking about now. Fair chance it was advertised on TV that NO OTHER HEADACHE REMEDY IS SUPERIOR !!!!!!!

You may well think that you have the best and leading brand, but you are wrong. The advert actually only claimed non-inferiority. You may now wish you had spent 1/4rth for the cheap stuff, but no court is going to side with you and your claim of misleading advertising is going to fail.
 
NissanClient73 said:
Advertisement from Nissan:

The average American drives less than 37 miles per day. With a maximum range of up to 107 miles, the Nissan LEAF® SV & SL can take you nearly three times that distance on a single charge.


It is on Nissan’s website
URL?

That is very likely referring to the 2016 30 kWh Leaf SV and SL (+ the 2016 Leaf "S 30" (https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106593_nissan-leaf-s-quietly-gets-30-kwh-battery-upgrade-higher-price) and all 2017 Leafs) with a 107 mile EPA range, not your 24 kWh Leaf with 73 mile range rating.

https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=37067&id=30979&id=38428
 
Valdemar said:
NissanClient73 said:
Valdemar said:
How much more disclosure do you really need other than the official EPA range ratings? Also, most 2011/12 purchasers had to sign a disclosure form that clearly explained what range should be expected from the car under real world driving conditions in different scenarios. The only illusion I had when I bought the car was about the battery longevity, not the range. The class action about the abysmal longevity has already happened, if you did not opt out at the time you're now a part of the class and cannot sue Nissan separately. You can try the BBB route to get a new battery out of Nissan as many of us successfully done, but given the age of your vehicle it will likely be an uphill battle.

We did not sign any disclosures. No one has provided the official EPA range ratings to us. Back in 2011 Nissan advertised 100 miles range on fully charged battery. I clearly remember that, and I am sure I am not alone. I remember that we asked the dealer about the realistic range, and he answered that it depends on our “driving style”. He said if you drive on eco mode, with air conditioner off, the car will go 100 miles. It never did. We have discussed that with other Nissan owners, and they all agreed that Nissan faulsy advertised the car.
 
NissanClient73 said:
No one has provided the official EPA range ratings to us.
For Pete's sake !

The sticker on the window when you bought the car. The sticker that by law only the car buyer may remove*. Are you now going to complain that nobody forced you to read it or explained it to your satisfaction and ability or forced you to take a competency test on the sticker information before agreeing to sell you the car ?

*I have all of mine. <<shrug>>

2011-LEAF-Monroney-Sticker.png
 
NissanClient73 said:
No one has provided the official EPA range ratings to us. Back in 2011 Nissan advertised 100 miles range on fully charged battery. I clearly remember that, and I am sure I am not alone. I remember that we asked the dealer about the realistic range, and he answered that it depends on our “driving style”. He said if you drive on eco mode, with air conditioner off, the car will go 100 miles.
Here are some URLs showing the 73 mile range figure on the 2011 Leaf window sticker.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2011-nissan-leaf-epa-ratings-released
http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/13173823-2011-Nissan-LEAF-Window-Sticker
http://blog.morries.com/2011/03/nissan-leaf-preview-at-brooklyn-park-nissan/nissan_leaf_preview-19/
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1051793_epa-rates-2011-nissan-leaf-at-99-mpge-73-mile-range

Over 115 people at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=7022 have achieved 100+ miles on a charge on a 24 kWh Leaf, albeit by driving slowly.

As I said before, telling ICEV drivers that they should expect 100 miles on such a car is a TERRIBLE idea (and unfortunately, not uncommon for years :() but it’s certainly not impossible.

There’s no shortage of salesmen saying things just to make a sale out of either ignorance or malice.

(There was also some interesting info at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=2433.)
 
I think what the OP is trying to say is that to the normal person (not us EV geeks here) hearing from salesman from really ambiguous Nissan literature and the EPA sticker it can be confusing. Is this confusion a concerted effort by all involved to confuse the non geek buyer? To some I think the answer is yes.
Most people aren't on this site or others gathering information. They see and hear things and they buy in the hope that corporations are not going to fu*k them. We all know better.
 
The window sticker says "on a fully charged battery, the car can travel about ... .... ... 73 miles

I cannot think of how it can be said any clearer, but maybe OP has a suggestion.
 
I found a window sticker. It states that on fully charged battery, vehicle can travel about 73 miles. I also realized that we paid $39,190.00 for this piece of crap. Sage Brush has insulted my intelligence twice today. One has to be really dumb to pay so much money for a golf car.
 
NissanClient73 said:
I found a window sticker. It states that on fully charged battery, vehicle can travel about 73 miles. I also realized that we paid $39,190.00 for this piece of crap. Sage Brush has insulted my intelligence twice today. One has to be really dumb to pay so much money for a golf car.

Don't mean to insult you the 3rd time, but you got your $10,000 back from the government after purchase, right?
 
In the meantime, NissanClient73 may wish to consult the 8 capacity bar range chart at https://www.dropbox.com/s/epy3s5bmcbu3gpk/LEAFrangeChartVersion7G63.pdf?dl=0 (from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4295). At 60 mph at 70 F on level ground w/no HVAC usage (other conditions there), the car should average 3.9 miles/kWh and should be able to achieve at least 52 miles until dead. As I pointed out, in the Phoenix range test at a slightly higher speed of 100 km/h (~62 mph), a 4 bar loser achieved ~59 miles.

The range chart predicts 83 miles at 35 mph.

If NissanClient73 doesn't have anything that reads battery gids, he should get something that does. The video about Leaf Spy at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=25586&p=523867&hilit=youtube#p523867 may give more context. It's esp. important for '11 and '12 Leafs which have no % state of charge display. Gids can be used as a proxy for % SoC.

Also, side note, I do recall seeing either printed literature or stuff on Nissan's web site back then that outlined these scenarios: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=1226. I was able to find a working archive.org copy at https://web.archive.org/web/20110823071927/http://www.nissanusa.com:80/leaf-electric-car/index#/leaf-electric-car/range-disclaimer/index.
 
Valdemar said:
Don't mean to insult you the 3rd time, but you got your $10,000 back from the government after purchase, right?
$7500 plus whatever was offered in their state back then. My state didn't offer anything until 3 years ago.
 
jlv said:
Valdemar said:
Don't mean to insult you the 3rd time, but you got your $10,000 back from the government after purchase, right?
$7500 plus whatever was offered in their state back then. My state didn't offer anything until 3 years ago.

Their state is CA, hence the amount.
 
^^^
And, for those who got their Leafs VERY early on, wasn't the CVRP originally $5000 LONG ago? (This is way before my time.)

Let's also hope NissanClient73 applied for a rebate from their electric utility, if applicable. (e.g. $500 from https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/solar-and-vehicles/options/clean-vehicles/electric/clean-fuel-rebate-for-electric-vehicles.page)
SageBrush said:
@cwerdna,
If NissanClient73 doesn't have anything that reads battery gids, he should get something that does.
Any reason to not rely on a SOC gauge from LeafSpy ?
I don't like the percentages of SoC or gids from Leaf Spy. What's the denominator?

I'd rather look at actual # of gids.
 
cwerdna said:
^^^
And, for those who got their Leafs VERY early on, wasn't the CVRP originally $5000 LONG ago? (This is way before my time.)

Let's also hope NissanClient73 applied for a rebate from their electric utility, if applicable. (e.g. $500 from https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/solar-and-vehicles/options/clean-vehicles/electric/clean-fuel-rebate-for-electric-vehicles.page)
SageBrush said:
@cwerdna,
If NissanClient73 doesn't have anything that reads battery gids, he should get something that does.
Any reason to not rely on a SOC gauge from LeafSpy ?
I don't like the percentages of SoC or gids from Leaf Spy. What's the denominator?

I'd rather look at actual # of gids.
Now I remember ... we have discussed this before.

If a full range is 50-60 miles, then 1% is 0.5 - 0.6 miles. So perhaps a 0.1 mile error
That would be plenty accurate for my use.
 
Back
Top