2011 LEAF Replacement: Need Help w/Pros & Cons of 2018 BOLT, I3, LEAF & Tesla Model 3

As with the Leaf (which has no active cooling), I would double check if the Hyundai Kona BEV has good enough traction battery cooling. I only ask because the Hyundai Iconiq BEV uses cabin air like the Kia Soul EV which is not doing well in hot climates, but the Iconiq does have a non-transferable lifetime battery warranty. I am currently unfamiliar with the Kona BEV but suspect it is cooled the same as the Iconiq and most likely has the same lifetime battery warranty. If it has the same non-transferable battery warranty, expect the car to depreciate hard in the secondary market. Now I have to go educate myself on the specifics of the Kona!

https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/kona-electric


"I have no mouth, and I must scream."

LeftieBiker said:

https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/kona-electric

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California first.
CARB states later.
General availability???

Have you looked at the Honda Clarity? It's a true 5-seater but no hatch. We have the PHEV and love it. You are in CA and have the option of the BEV at an amazing lease price. Ours is 2 months old and still on the same tank of gas.

LeftieBiker said:

Did you buy/lease a 2018?

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Yes, a 2018 SL. I'll be picking it up on Monday, barring the unforeseen. I'm also looking to swap the the grey leather seats for cloth SV seats (with Tech package power driver seat) of either color.

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Congrats!! So exciting! I wish we had an easier decision. If you have time, hope to see some pics!

alozzy said:

Sounds like you are looking to buy new and want an EV family car. You might want to wait until year end, when the Kia Kona BEV should be available:

https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/kona-electric

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Thanks for bringing this! We do want a utilitarian car. This & a handful of new EVs are coming in 2019-2020. The time factors are whether we want to try for the full tax incentive on a Tesla or something else in 2018. Article says the Kona BEV might be available at the end of 2018. Checking out the ICE version of the Kona might give us some feeling of the build. The 5 do or hatch and sunroof sounds great! Like Evoforce says, hopefully TMS good.

r1234567 said:

Have you looked at the Honda Clarity? It's a true 5-seater but no hatch. We have the PHEV and love it. You are in CA and have the option of the BEV at an amazing lease price. Ours is 2 months old and still on the same tank of gas.

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Thank you for the suggestion. I like the "... on the same tank of gas..."

We test drove the fuel cell one a while back. Haven't seen much about the BEV version. Wonder what the price would be in CA.

The BEV is only available in CA and OR, the FC in CA, and the PHEV all of the US and Canada. I'm in Chicago which is why I bought the PHEV version.

The BEV is $899 down, $199 a month for 3 years. It's only available as a lease and has a range of 89 miles.

My PHEV has a 47 electric range with a 7-gallon gas tank for a total range of close to 350 miles.

r1234567 said:

The BEV is only available in CA and OR, the FC in CA, and the PHEV all of the US and Canada. I'm in Chicago which is why I bought the PHEV version.

The BEV is $899 down, $199 a month for 3 years. It's only available as a lease and has a range of 89 miles.

My PHEV has a 47 electric range with a 7-gallon gas tank for a total range of close to 350 miles.

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Wow, the Honda Clarity BEV is a great lease deal. Kinda like the Honda Fit BEV leases. What happened to all those BEV Fits? Are the Honda hybrids improved from back in the days?

Being in Chicago, the BEV Fits weren't an option here either.

I have a FB group for the Clarity if you want to learn more.

alozzy said:

You might want to wait until year end, when the Kia Kona BEV should be available:

https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/kona-electric

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Will it actually be more than vaporware? I've ignored and been very skeptical about all the recent Kona Electric hype since the Ioniq electric is basically US vaporware outside So Cal. Co-worker looked into it recently and was essentially given the answer: So Cal only. Look at the puny sales at https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/. It's near the bottom of the 2018 and 2017 charts. It supposedly started shipping in March 2017 and remains elusive.

"Vaporware" is a product that doesn't exist except in advertising pitches and brochures. You need a word that may not yet exist. Maybe "Else-ware."

The Kona EV might be a compliance car, but I doubt it. At the very least, I would think it will be available in other ZEV states (Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Vermont) and probably some Canadian markets too.

Hopefully, if sales go well in those markets, Hyundai will make the Kona/Niro available elsewhere too.

This also seems to suggest they are not treating it as a compliance car:

https://electrek.co/2018/03/14/hyundai-kona-electric-cold-weather-performance/

LeftieBiker said:

"Vaporware" is a product that doesn't exist except in advertising pitches and brochures. You need a word that may not yet exist. Maybe "Else-ware."

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LOL! I should've said something like virtually vaporware.

alozzy said:

The Kona EV might be a compliance car, but I doubt it. At the very least, I would think it will be available in other ZEV states (Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Vermont) and probably some Canadian markets too.

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How's Hyundai doing w/the Ioniq EV in those CARB emission states? AFAIK, it's not attainable even in Nor Cal.

Did you look at those US sales numbers?

The Kona is a crossover and, to my mind, has better styling than the IONIQ, so hopefully it does better sales.

alozzy said:

The Kona is a crossover and, to my mind, has better styling than the IONIQ, so hopefully it does better sales.

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I still think that nose makes it look like a blind cave fish, or maybe a skink.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skink

Not sure if it was mentioned or not...

But I'd consider the e-golf in your research, if you can get your hands on one...

It was a very close toss up between the 2018 leaf and e-golf for me, the bolt and i3 were too expensive and too small. I'd probably consider spending the extra buck on the model 3, if they made a hatch version and get AWD...

The Bolt doesn't even have adaptive cruise, the e-golf you can actually set a state of charge to charge up to, has more regen modes, a nicer interior than the 2018 leaf. Don't get me wrong... I'm still very happy with the 2018 Leaf, just ignore all the flack around TMS and the RapidGate,... To me (pnad its a non-issue since I just use it for daily commuting to work and back...

I had a refundable deposit on both vehicles, in the end it came down to availability for me.... I put a deposit for the e-golf last August and a deposit on the 2018 on launch day back in September ... Got my Leaf delivered in March, still had no delivery estimate for the e-golf :x ...

Anyhow, that's my nickel's worth (pennies don't exist in Canada anymore, so I can't give 2 cents :lol: ) of thoughts on comparison...

There is no such thing as a 37K Tesla 3 and there may never be. Current 3's are fully loaded and they come to 57K. With a 10K tax credit that is still 47K, Ugh.

Personally I do not need a 9K extended battery. It is all academic since with my bad hip I can not get into an S or 3. I do fit the X but it is too much money for a car from a money losing company. I am not willing to worship the cult of Elon.

I'd hold out for a Model 3. It's awesome! You'll be sad if you don't.

A REAL battery TMS for long range and Supercharging. A REAL network of functional DC fast charging. Expanding, too.

fun to drive. Supporting a REAL EV innovator and world changer. What's not to like?

Oh, wait, there is all the FUD out there. ignore that since the Model 3 is disrupting things EVERYWHERE. some don't get it. that's fine. lots of long-range EVs to choose from.

finman100 said:

I'd hold out for a Model 3. It's awesome! You'll be sad if you don't.

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The same could be said of a Porsche 911.

I'm enjoying owning a Leaf and expect to do so for years more. The Leaf has the room I need, fits the wheelchair my wife needs, has the range I need mostly. Wife's car is an ICE, and we do take it on longer day trips once every couple of months. We sometimes to take the Leaf, but usually in winter and requires two QC stops. The Leaf is likely to have that range for years into the future. A TMS wouldn't provide me with anything.

I expect that the Leaf will be cheaper to maintain than the T esla.

While I wish T elsa all the success, the company is high risk. The odds of T esla being around long term are not near certain.