iPlug
Well-known member
Yes, just replaced ours 1-2 months ago.LTLFTcomposite said:
2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses
- Thread starter cwerdna
- Start date
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dwl
Well-known member
There is a rumour they have now run out of 30kWh packs and are working on a solution which involves 40kWh modules derated to 30kWh by updated BMS. Nissan will not want to continue with same chemistry if another replacement needed in two years. If anyone gets a new replacement it would be very interesting to see a screen shot of the main LeafSpy screen at full charge and the BMS part number (need LeafSpy Pro).LTLFTcomposite said:
A derated 40KWH battery would suit me just fine particularly if they limit the battery to the middle 75% of its range. I still think that Nissan has picked the wrong chemistry and It is too sensitive to high temps. There doesn't seem to be a problem with these batteries in Europe or Japan so it may be localized to the southern U.S. It just may be cheaper to replace failed batteries then fix the problem. If I do get another Leaf, it will be a lease not a purchase. More likely, I'll buy or lease another brand instead. I've bought Nissans for almost 30 years but the response to the battery problem has left a bad taste in my mouth.dwl said:
iPlug
Well-known member
Nissan finished replacing our 30 kWh battery on 3/21/2018. On LeafSpy Pro that day the main screen:
AHr= 82.34
SOH= 103.60%
Hx= 97.45%
Odo= 18,729 mi
QC= 31
L1/L2= 660
SOC = 93.6%
Would post the screen shot here, but don't have the account upgrade to do it. Where does one find the BMS part number?
AHr= 82.34
SOH= 103.60%
Hx= 97.45%
Odo= 18,729 mi
QC= 31
L1/L2= 660
SOC = 93.6%
Would post the screen shot here, but don't have the account upgrade to do it. Where does one find the BMS part number?
dwl
Well-known member
Thanks for the post. The battery controller part number should be visible if you have LeafSpy Pro, turn on Service Menu in settings (appears as 5th screen), then "Read ECU versions" and you will hopefully have a "HV BATTERY" line. On a 2016 24kWh ex Japan I see 4NL2A (part is actually 293A0-4NL2A) which is different to the 30kWh (starts 2015/12 with 4NN4A and updated to 4NN6A in Sept 2016 for Japan) and it will be interesting to see if any further updates. Another useful item on same line is the battery serial number - for the example I have it was JT11639000xxx which I understand means JT1 = assembled in Japan, 16 = 2016, 3 = March, 9 = day, plus serial. The manufacture date of your new pack would be interesting.iPlug said:
LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
If iPlug's pack was replaced on 3/21 it had to have been ordered well before then. My imagination is running wild with possibilities here, but pretty much ruling out the possibility of getting 40kwh of capacity in a 2016. Even if it did it would likely degrade in the heat.
iPlug
Well-known member
dwl said:
Third line from the bottom reads: 4NP1A 5253 EV/HEV
Second line from the bottom reads: 4NP4A 0605 HV BATTERY 230SM1178S000xxx
dwl
Well-known member
Thanks. Looks like assembled in Smyrna in August 2017 so older stock (now 9 months old). The cell volts at 100% charge is also of interest although as seems an original pack probably sitting about 4.12V.iPlug said:
If anyone else getting a replacement could check this it would be appreciated.
jbuntz
Well-known member
I am curious what your stats were when you dropped 4th bar.iPlug said:
iPlug
Well-known member
It should be back in this thread, probably around the month of March.jbuntz said:
jbuntz
Well-known member
Found it, thx. Mine are now less than yours so hopefully my 4th drops soon.iPlug said:
dwl
Well-known member
This issue has just been discussed on our national radio here in New Zealand and there was a suggestion that the car instrumentation is a bit misleading and cars with some SOH loss (e.g. 10-20%) are still getting really good range. When there is higher capacity loss like you are experiencing do you believe your actual range (not just GOM) has dropped by roughly the amount of SOH loss?jbuntz said:
WetEV
Well-known member
dwl said:
Gold standard test would be to get battery to known temperature and near VLBW, then measure energy needed to recharge. Compare with new car measurement at same temperature. Or a careful range test comparing a new car with an older one. Again, I suggest stopping at VLBW for both.
jbuntz
Well-known member
I think it is pretty close. I am at 67% SOH and I average about 4 mi per KWh. 70 miles is already into LBW. I believe LeafSpy that i have about 19 kWh at full charge.dwl said:
WetEV
Well-known member
SageBrush said:
dwl
Well-known member
We have groups using different methods. We are trying discharge from 100% at constant current of C/3 with a Dynapack load (hub dynamometer) and measuring time down to at least VLBW or lower which when multiplied by nominal voltage gives kWh (to that SoC). Current is measured via a modified service disconnect plug to bring out a wire loop for minimal modification to the car.SageBrush said:
Another approach is the charge method, starting from turtle, up to 100%, measuring kWh to car with EVSE and/or external check meter, and applying a correction for charging efficiency of nominally 88% at 230V and 16A. The charge method is easier to do and can even form a statement of health (by that method, noting temperature) for selling a used car. We know it isn't precise but could be adequate guide. This is important for the import industry here where up until now Leaf Spy has been used and accuracy is being questioned where there are 30kWh cars with 1 and 2 bars down being sold and some feel not much range has been lost.
A third approach has been run-out driving and good distances are claimed on reportedly degraded packs but it seems to me it could be subject to significant variability and some of these tests are at low speed. Hopefully over coming weeks we will get a better idea of the answers from each method and how well they relate to the Leaf Spy reported SoH.
dwl
Well-known member
Now seven weeks and any sign of new battery ?LTLFTcomposite said:
edatoakrun
Well-known member
Good luck. No one on this thread has seemed very interested in measuring actual capacity loss, so I am looking forward to your results.
I own a 2011 LEAF with ~seven years use and ~60 k miles in a comparatively hot climate that has ~64% capacity remaining as indicated by the LBC, but has retained much higher actual capacity (I estimate 75% to 80% by using an external meter) and a somewhat higher percentage of its initial range in my predominantly low speed mountain driving.
In my experience range tests of capacity are very difficult to conduct accurately, and vehicle efficiency seems also to increase over time, and also varies greatly with tires and the level of tire wear.
No one on this forum (that I can recall) has ever had access to a dynamometer.
What is your source for, and definition of, "charging efficiency of nominally 88% at 230V and 16A."?
Here is my post from several months ago, to which none of the "30 kWh" pack owners ever replied: