Official Tesla Model 3 thread
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LTLFTcomposite
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They'll find some other way to jack the price, eg some hideous standard paint color or burlap covered bench seats. Sure you could take it for $35k with no options but they'll make it painful. Remember $35k is by no means a cheap car, if it doesn't look like an upscale vehicle good luck unloading it if you need to.SageBrush said:
WetEV said:
But some claim that Tesla is now even profitable selling the M3 at $35K.
With regard to funding issue, Elon indicated that no funding is needed in 2018. So why develop negativity with reservation holders, i.e. potentially lose them, and not deliver to them in the order of time of reservation.
Sounds like smoke and mirrors when it comes to the real profitability of the M3 versus a price less than $50k.
EVDRIVER
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This is how they have always delivered cars. All the complaining in the world won’t get you one when you want it. There are other reasons as well, stop beating the dead horse it is in the order of the reservation based on how they have always done it. Delivering higher profit cars also does not mean another is not profitable either.
SageBrush said:
You can say much the same about any model car in its cheapest iteration, but the base Model 3 is a whole lot less stripped than the 2018 LEAF 'S'.LTLFTcomposite said:
If I don't buy the AWD, I'll end up spending $41k for the SR with the premium upgrade package and a color other than black. In the scheme of things that price increase up from the base model is modest for an entry level luxury car. I'm completely satisfied, in fact delighted, with the value.
EVDRIVER
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SageBrush said:
Yes a car that has fully redundant systems regardless of options selected
dual steering motors and controlllers
redundant braking system
solid state fuses
extremely high safety
high performance on handling and power
remote upgradable
great telematics system
and on and on.
WetEV
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lorenfb said:
Not enough public information to support that claim. Especially as T esla isn't selling the M odel 3 SR yet.
Oils4AsphaultOnly
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PSA to Leaf owners who just got their model 3. Today I forgot to take the car out of chill mode, and tried to rush an onramp on the 110 freeway (you have 20 feet from the stop sign to full freeway speed traffic, and I saw a 100 foot gap between cars that I thought I could accelerate right into from a dead stop). In the leaf with B-mode, full power is achieved by fully stomping the accelerator. Doesn't work that way in Chill mode, which dampens power delivery over the entire pedal range! The freeway merge would've been seemless otherwise. I earned the rightful glares of the other drivers for that one. 
Although chill mode is great for adapting to the power available from the model 3, it should be used like training wheels. Once you get used to the power and can smoothly control it via one-pedal driving, remove the chill mode. That, or drive it like an 8sec 0-60 car.
Although chill mode is great for adapting to the power available from the model 3, it should be used like training wheels. Once you get used to the power and can smoothly control it via one-pedal driving, remove the chill mode. That, or drive it like an 8sec 0-60 car.
WetEV said:
Agreed, naivete on the part of some. But based on past Tesla GAAP financial reports over 5+ years one can conclude:
1. During the production & sales of the MS and during the product development of the MX, Tesla was not profitable.
2. During the production & sales of the MS & MX and during the product development of the M3, Tesla was not profitable.
3. During the production & sales of the MS & MX & M3 to ending YTD Q1 2018, Tesla has not been profitable.
Given the above historical record, one would most likely question the likelihood of Tesla's future profitability even if Tesla
only delivered M3s at ASPs greater than $50K. Furthermore, as the M3 cannibalizes MS sales, a GAAP profitable Tesla
will become even less likely. But then again, to some, Tesla doesn't ever need to be profitable, i.e. it's all about growth
as many shareholders seem to believe, right?
EatsShootsandLeafs
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I actually wrote a post out in response to yours, but starting your post with "BS" and ending with "trollish garbage" I concluded you aren't worth the time. I'll engage with you again if you behave better.SageBrush said:
EatsShootsandLeafs
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Most likely the $7500 is gone end of this year, with few if any $35k on the road. With, as far as I know, 100% of reservation holders showing an "early 2019" at the latest for the $35k, it's obvious Tesla is chunking them all together, which is an arbitrary estimate. First half 2019 the credit will be $3750, but I expect production for the $35k variant to still be exceptionally low because primarily Tesla can't make much (or any?) money on that one. And as long as demand exists for the optioned models Tesla will do its very best to produce as damn few of the $35k as possible. How do I know that? Because there isn't a single one available now even though it would be the cheapest and easiest variation to produce.dgpcolorado said:
As pointed out above, even the most ardent tesla supporters now seem to agree that Tesla badly needs the money and is selling expensive cars to maximize money just to keep its head above water.
EatsShootsandLeafs
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I became of the belief recently, watching Tesla kick the can down the road on the $35k, that it will produce a few of them at the very most to "prove the haters wrong" and then wrap it up entirely. I don't believe we'll ever see a point at which Tesla is cranking out thousands of these and getting one is as simple as going to Tesla.com today and ordering a model S for delivery in 4-6 weeks.lorenfb said:
edatoakrun
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Nonsense!EatsShootsandLeafs said:
Any day now it will be just as easy to buy a $35k model 3, as it is today to buy yourself a new model S for "around $50,000"...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahelliott/2011/12/20/tesla-comes-through-with-sub-50000-model-s-mostly/#70842a4965e8
EVDRIVER
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They can easily cut the 3 cost way down for anyone that does not want AP, if they chose they could take cameras, motors, controllers, redundant wiring and any autonomous gear off the car for a HUGE cost cut. My guess is they won't do that so don't forget the cost is absorbed over all cars for those that do not activate it. Nothing like quoting old articles to sound even ore like a broken record. Reality is if they get production up to where it needs to be people will get the base cars in time just not the handful of bitter people here that won't get the credit in time and will be driving their LEAF longer.
edatoakrun
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But It (TSLA) probably won't sell many cars without all the unnecessary high-margin equipment and options, as long as it can find enough willing buyers to pay almost twice the promised "$35k" price.EVDRIVER said:
And that is the real question that will determine TSLA's short-term viability.
It is on schedule to run out of cash within a year, unless it can build and sell a few hundred thousand model 3's for close to $60k, on average.
Assuming it can build that many model 3s are there that many suckers out there?
jlv
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Tesla sold S40s (software-limited S60s) at that price to those who placed deposits at that price.edatoakrun said:
edatoakrun
Well-known member
And then cancelled that option, and has subsequently raised the base price several times, to the point where the minimum price of one of these dinosaurs today is $74,500.jlv said:
Do you expect that the starting price of a model 3 will be ~$50,000, in 2025, when it is also an obsolete ~seven-year-old design?
WetEV
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lorenfb said:
Suppose T esla's gross margin on M3s is $5k next quarter. Suppose production gets to 5k per week, or 65k per quarter. That is $325M, about a third of last quarter's loss. Adds another quarter to T esla's life expectancy. If T esla can boost production to 10k a week, and expand gross margin to $7.5k, T esla would be near break even. Or some other combination of production increases, gross margin increases and/or other cost reductions. At break even, T esla would be positioned to continue to grow, or to slow growth and increase profits.
Likelihood of profit? Hard to say. T esla to survive needs to get to at least close to break even. The growth story with little profit works to attract investment(see A mazon), but at some point the T esla needs to make at least small GAAP profits. Not a sure thing, and not zero chance.
I'm neutral on T esla the stock. It is a high risk bet, and right now the dice are rolling.
lpickup
Well-known member
edatoakrun said:
And so what? If you can fill a factory selling higher profit margin cars at that price point, why would you sell a lower profit margin car and get less return on your investment (or in the case of Tesla, have less cash to fuel your next iteration of growth?) There is not a factory in the world that wouldn't fill up their lines with higher profit margin goods. If Tesla was doing what you suggested and sold their base model first, THAT would be the colossal business mistake that I think you and Loren are hoping for. It took Nissan 2 years to release their LEAF S trim...I wonder why?
Now sure, we do have Elon/Tesla's goal of creating a true mainstream EV. Are they there yet? For sure not, and it's taking a lot longer than any of us want. There have been significant challenges, some unforeseen, but keep in mind it's taken automakers quite a lot longer than what Tesla has taken to get to the economies of scale to allow for building a true entry-level vehicle. Have they stopped moving in that direction? No. Will they ever get there? Questionable. They seem to have a lot of projects on their plate which aren't going to be cheap to fund, so maybe the best we can hope for for the short term is that put enough force on the market to push automakers in that direction, and I already see evidence that they've done so with the new LEAF creating a 150 mile class offering.
You keep saying that Tesla hasn't produced a $35K vehicle (although I can't really recall WHY that is important to you, other than that it's a milestone that Tesla hasn't achieved that you can point to as evidence of Tesla's impending doom). But you also say that they never will, which I think will most likely turn out to be false. They will produce one, if only because the cost of the battery will fall enough to make it very doable.
