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WetEV said:
cwerdna said:
Somone at TCF made a note that (at the top of) https://www.tesla.com/model3 are supposed wait times (month ranges) if you reserve now for various configs (e.g. long range battery and RWD vs. say standard battery)

"Standard range 6-12 months." With 400,000 preorders and 5k per week that is 80 weeks of production. Sure, some cancellations, but I don't see how there is much chance of a new order being delivered in 6 months for the standard range. Even 12 months seems unlikely.

The 450k preorders are global (with model S & X sales as a proxy, only 150-180k are US pre-orders). Shipments of the model 3 outside the US are not scheduled until next year. So all the estimates are for US orders only. With the sunsetting of the federal tax credit, US orders will be prioritized over international ones. The LR RWD variant demand is being filled now, LR AWD will be filled in July when 5000/wk production is reached, giving them the capacity to build 125k more model 3's until the end of the year.

So there's some buffer in those numbers, since they don't know what the actual take rate will be between LR AWD and SR RWD orders will be. There's nothing nefarious about Tesla's estimates.
 
That's got to hurt...

Tesla Model 3 Falls Short of a CR Recommendation

Despite record range and agile handling, issues with braking, controls, and ride quality hurt the Model 3’s Overall Score



...Because we saw some inconsistency in the braking performance, we got a second Model 3 (a privately owned vehicle that was loaned to CR) to verify our results. CR has tested second samples in previous situations to double-check our findings.

When we ran the second Model 3 through the same tests, we got almost identical results.

In our tests of both Model 3 samples, the stopping distances were much longer than the stopping distances we recorded on other Teslas and other cars in this class.

The Tesla Model 3’s 152 feet is 21 feet longer than the class average of 131 feet for luxury compact sedans and 25 feet longer than the results for its much larger SUV sibling, the Model X.

CR’s experience with the Model 3’s braking is not unique. Car and Driver, in its published test of a Model 3, said it noticed “a bizarre amount of variation” in its test, including one stop from 70 mph that took “an interminable 196 feet.”

“I’ve been testing cars for 11 years,” Car and Driver Testing Director K.C. Colwell said in an interview with CR, “and in 11 years, no car has stood out with inconsistent braking like this. Some trucks have. . . . It was just weird.”...
https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-review-falls-short-of-consumer-reports-recommendation/
 
EVDRIVER said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
I hope nobody is paying ridiculous cc interest rates on that grand but I suspect some are.


If you need to float $1000 any CC for that long it seems like you may not be able to afford a $35K plus car and certainly not the finance rates on the car. I guess those would be Ed's financially responsible contingency.
I'd bet my life somebody has that $1k accruing interest this very minute. Some people are desperate to "own a tesla" and will go to truly idiotic lengths to achieve it. Case in point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ-c4xo6dS0
 
WetEV said:
cwerdna said:
Somone at TCF made a note that (at the top of) https://www.tesla.com/model3 are supposed wait times (month ranges) if you reserve now for various configs (e.g. long range battery and RWD vs. say standard battery)

"Standard range 6-12 months." With 400,000 preorders and 5k per week that is 80 weeks of production. Sure, some cancellations, but I don't see how there is much chance of a new order being delivered in 6 months for the standard range. Even 12 months seems unlikely.
It's because Tesla is just making stuff up now. I don't even think it's trying. These latest estimates are mind boggling.
 
scottf200 said:
musk-model-3.jpg

Via Twitter and https://insideevs.com/musk-provides-timeline-for-arrival-of-35000-tesla-model-3/
Need to survive to keep producing Model 3s at all. No doubt this has been analyzed multiple ways and multiple times by their financial folks.
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
When it became obvious to me there was no way I'd ever get the federal rebate for this car, I concluded it was time to stop partaking in these shenanigans and I recently withdrew my reservation.
Confusing why you keep posting in this thread because you no longer care about being a Tesla supporter/owner per above.

Aside: Yes, I have a Model 3 reserved. My oldest kid is buying it.
 
There are plenty of examples of people that buy cars outside their means. Some
People have $100k cars when they should own $10k cars. Luckily Ed will soon have a seminar that shows how people that buy the $35k Tesla don’t have to be fleeced by Elon and how people like the guy above are smarter with their money than others that may have slightly more. When Tesla takes deposits from unsuspecting people that are financially less advantaged they are basically no better than payday loan operators. Hopefully someone will investigate this scam soon, perhaps our present administration, they know a government scam when they see one.
 
scottf200 said:
Confusing why you keep posting in this thread because you no longer care about being a Tesla supporter/owner per above.
I'll address your confusion by asking if you've ever had an opinion on something you were not an unabashed fan of.
 
scottf200 said:
Need to survive to keep producing Model 3s at all. No doubt this has been analyzed multiple ways and multiple times by their financial folks.
This is what we all suspected. It is nice to see Elon finally admit it, though. To date the excuse has been that they were simplifying things by producing only one variant. This never was believable given that the standard range is a simpler, cheaper car. So people assumed it was because they had massive cash problems, and so this is not at all surprising.
 
lpickup said:
You [Ed] keep saying that Tesla hasn't produced a $35K vehicle (although I can't really recall WHY that is important to you, other than that it's a milestone that Tesla hasn't achieved that you can point to as evidence of Tesla's impending doom). But you also say that they never will, which I think will most likely turn out to be false. They will produce one, if only because the cost of the battery will fall enough to make it very doable.
That milestone is a couple months away, and then Ed and the other Tesla trolls will have to manufacture something else to whine and FUD about while their stock shorts eat them alive.

Good days ahead !
 
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/21/tesla-model-3-consumer-reports-edmunds/ (Consumer Reports, Edmunds observe significant problems with Tesla Model 3 test cars) has a pointer to https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-tesla-model-3-monthly-update-for-april-2018.html. The latter looks pretty bad.

Elon replied tonight to CR's inconsistent braking results: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998777288559755264. So, that's good news if that's all it takes.

Unrelated (as I posted elsewhere), Bloomberg Surveillance had some really weird reporting Sunday night/early in Monday morning about the AWD Tesla Model 3 announcement. They kept calling it a "price hike" :roll: and said things like the Model 3 will "now cost buyers nearly $80,000". And, "what does the hike mean for Musk and his vision?" They kept repeating weird crap about a "price hike" about every 30 minutes when they'd do their news recaps.

Uhh... it's not a "price hike". The $49K car still costs $49K. Just because a $78K version came out doesn't == price hike.

Don't know if they were clueless, confused or Tesla actually prodded them to say that (for optics w/investors).

I'm saving the recording on my TiVo, for now. Maybe I'll put up a that brief soundbite on YouTube along w/some commentary (to hopefully make it fair use).
 
edatoakrun said:
Tesla Model 3 Falls Short of a CR Recommendation


They also did not like the over-complication of a touch-screen-driven interface for what should be simple reflexive tasks. Glad to know I'm not insane. :roll:
 
Elon Musk
@elonmusk
·
5h
Replying to @elonmusk @ElectrekCo and @FredericLambert
Also, Consumer Reports has an early production car. Model 3 now has improved ride comfort, lower wind noise & many other small improvements. Will request that they test current production
What have we learned from this?
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
I'd bet my life somebody has that $1k accruing interest this very minute. Some people are desperate to "own a tesla" and will go to truly idiotic lengths to achieve it. Case in point:
He opted for the lowest payment... imagine that!
This is simultaneously what's wrong with America and what's great about America. Part of me wants to bitch-slap that guy and tell him how many more important things he is too young to understand he's jeopardizing by burying himself in debt for that car, like owning a home someday or maybe not having to eat cat food in retirement. Then I remember that a) it's none of my business and b) who am I to dictate priorities for what will bring him happiness in life. Obviously he *really* wants to own a Tesla and maybe that passion is so great the novelty won't ever wear off under the weight of those payments. Please no complaining though about some array of social injustices when he's spreading little friskies on saltines.
 
I showed that video to my wife. We both wondered why banks would give a student a $50k loan for a car.
I can only imagine the lenders were swayed by his job prospects (in nursing ?) after he graduates, but it still means that the country is full steam ahead into easy credit. How short are memories are.
 
EVDRIVER said:
... Every person I know that reserved with the intent to get a SR model has decided to get an LR model...
No, none of them made that decision, since none of them had the opportunity to buy the SR s, or any model 3 delivered for under $50k, much less the promised "$35,000" model 3.

TSLA determined to sell model 3s only at the much higher price, long before soliciting deposits for "$35,000" model 3's, and many of the poor suckers who believed Musk's lies have now been baited and switched to pay for much higher priced 3's.

lpickup said:
You [Ed] keep saying that Tesla hasn't produced a $35K vehicle...
Actually, what I have said (see above) is that TSLA has not delivered a model 3 yet for less than $50,000...

lpickup said:
...But you also say that they never will, which I think will most likely turn out to be false...
No, I have not. Please refrain from inventing statements from others in your comments.

lpickup said:
...They will produce one (a $35K vehicle) if only because the cost of the battery will fall enough to make it very doable.
Unless TSLA suffers financial failure or the model 3 succumbs to obsolescence first, preventing this from happening, that is likely.

But remember that TSLA actually increased the average selling price of the S/X model vehicle for years, and recently has cut production of to avoid reducing sales prices for as long as possible. It is entirely possible TSLA will replay this strategy in pricing the 3.

SageBrush said:
...That milestone ($35K vehicle) is a couple months away...
That's when you expect to accept delivery of the $35K vehicle (or is it ~$40k, SR with PUP?) you've been waiting for for so long?

Sounds to me that musk's latest statement suggests that is impossible.

scottf200 said:
scottf200 said:
musk-model-3.jpg

Via Twitter and https://insideevs.com/musk-provides-timeline-for-arrival-of-35000-tesla-model-3/
...
So, Musk is saying that until TSLA achieves consistent 5k per week production levels for model 3s sold for an average price of ~$60 k (or higher) TSLA will never sell any model 3s for under $50k?
 
edatoakrun said:
lpickup said:
...But you also say that they never will, which I think will most likely turn out to be false...
No, I have not. Please refrain from inventing statements from others in your comments.

While you mostly just imply that the timeline will continually be pushed out or that Tesla will fail altogether before the base model ever comes out, as you did one quote later in this very post:

edatoakrun said:
lpickup said:
...They will produce one (a $35K vehicle) if only because the cost of the battery will fall enough to make it very doable.
Unless TSLA suffers financial failure or the model 3 succumbs to obsolescence first, preventing this from happening, that is likely.

(although you do acknowledge that that scenario is not likely), you certainly have expressed your opinion that it's possible that the base model never sees the light of day:

edatoakrun said:
The only surprise in last night's event, was that there were no surprises...

OrientExpress said:
Big takeaways, first cars are $44K.

$35K will get you a black car with black cloth interior....
When and if TSLA starts to build them:

...The base Tesla Model 3 was confirmed to have a price of $35,000...with deliveries to start in the Fall/November 2017...
http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-specs/

And if production is not quickly terminated due to "lack of demand", which you may recall was the excuse given by TSLA after having sold only a handful of the "~$50k" versions of the S.

Emphasis mine.

And if only on a technicality, with your math, I do agree with you that Tesla will never deliver a vehicle for $35K since apparently you consider destination charges as part of your equation (perhaps fairly so), making the base model a $36K vehicle.

edatoakrun said:
lpickup said:
You [Ed] keep saying that Tesla hasn't produced a $35K vehicle...
Actually, what I have said (see above) is that TSLA has not delivered a model 3 yet for less than $50,000...

Black Model 3 with aero wheels + LR range battery + PUP = $49,000. It's only $50K if you add in the destination charge.
 
I guess all those people that changed their reservations had no idea what they were doing. Is nonsense and FUD a hobby or full time occupation for you?
 
cwerdna said:
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/21/tesla-model-3-consumer-reports-edmunds/ (Consumer Reports, Edmunds observe significant problems with Tesla Model 3 test cars) has a pointer to https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-tesla-model-3-monthly-update-for-april-2018.html. The latter looks pretty bad.

Elon replied tonight to CR's inconsistent braking results: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998777288559755264. So, that's good news if that's all it takes.

Unrelated (as I posted elsewhere), Bloomberg Surveillance had some really weird reporting Sunday night/early in Monday morning about the AWD Tesla Model 3 announcement. They kept calling it a "price hike" :roll: and said things like the Model 3 will "now cost buyers nearly $80,000". And, "what does the hike mean for Musk and his vision?" They kept repeating weird crap about a "price hike" about every 30 minutes when they'd do their news recaps.

Uhh... it's not a "price hike". The $49K car still costs $49K. Just because a $78K version came out doesn't == price hike.

Don't know if they were clueless, confused or Tesla actually prodded them to say that (for optics w/investors).

I'm saving the recording on my TiVo, for now. Maybe I'll put up a that brief soundbite on YouTube along w/some commentary (to hopefully make it fair use).

All this is pretty transparent, more Tesla pricing FUD and not from Tesla, more media nonsense. Like other firmware fixes I don't see an issue because I don't see other widespread complaints about braking and clearly they are not going to sell performance cars that stop slowly. Just like other "huge" Tesla issues they seem to get resolved or have already been resolved.
 
SageBrush said:
I showed that video to my wife. We both wondered why banks would give a student a $50k loan for a car.
I can only imagine the lenders were swayed by his job prospects (in nursing ?) after he graduates, but it still means that the country is full steam ahead into easy credit. How short are memories are.
If I were king all consumer lending would be non recourse. Isn't CA already leading the way there? (was the guy in the video from CA?)
 
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