edatoakrun
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Sat May 26, 2018 6:10 am

cwerdna wrote:YouYou Xue crashed while on autopilot (aka Model 3 Road Trip) (this is while in Europe)...

As reported by Fred Lambert:

Tesla Model 3 unofficial road trip ends in crash, driver blames Autopilot

...He commented about the circumstance around the crash:

“Vehicle was engaged on Autopilot at 120 km/h. Car suddenly veered right without warning and crashed into the centre median (edit: divider at the exit fork). Both wheels (edit: one wheel) completely shattered, my door wouldn’t even open correctly. I’m unharmed.”...

https://electrek.co/2018/05/25/tesla-mo ... autopilot/

Driver has recently posted this statement:

Statement regarding collision

26 May 2018

FLORINA, GREECE

Thank you everyone for your kind wishes and messages of support following the collision late yesterday night. This is an absolutely devastating loss for me and brings a great journey to a sudden end.

I was driving southbound on highway E65 near the city of Florina, Greece. I was headed towards Kozani, Greece, where I planned to charge and spend the night. At this time, I was not tired after having 8 hours of sleep the previous night. I engaged Autopilot upon entering the highway after crossing the border between Macedonia (FYROM) and Greece. My Autopilot maximum speed was set at approximately 120 km/h, the speed limit for this highway. The highway was well-marked, well-maintained, and well-lit. The conditions were dry, and there was no traffic around me. The highway was two lanes in each direction, separated by a concrete median. The highway in my direction of travel divided at a fork, with the #2 right lane changing into the exit lane, and the #1 left lane remaining the lane for thru traffic. I was travelling in the #1 lane.

My left hand was grasping the bottom of the steering wheel during the drive, my right hand was resting on my lap. The vehicle showed no signs of difficulty following the road up until this fork. As the gore point began, approximately 8m before the crash barrier and end of the fork, my Model 3 veered suddenly and with great force to the right. I was taking a glance at the navigation on my phone, and was not paying full attention to the road. I was startled by the sudden change in direction of the car, and I attempted to apply additional grip onto the steering wheel in an attempt to correct the steering. This input was too late and although I was only a few inches from clearing the crash barrier, the front left of the vehicle near the wheel well crashed into the right edge of the barrier, resulting in severe damage...

Many Tesla fans will likely dismiss this as fully my fault, but I implore those who believe so to take a full step back and put themselves in my shoes, as a driver who had used this amazing software for so long, and who could not have anticipated such a sudden and violent jerk of the wheel to one direction while travelling at a fast speed...


https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/co ... h=818c5d98
no condition is permanent

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Sat May 26, 2018 12:12 pm

I can't seem to get mine to do this after tens of thousands of miles. There is a common denominator with the majority of these drivers and article "posters" FYI , Fred Lambert is also not a reporter.

GRA
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Sat May 26, 2018 3:59 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:I can't seem to get mine to do this after tens of thousands of miles. There is a common denominator with the majority of these drivers and article "posters". FYI , Fred Lambert is also not a reporter.

Why yes, there is a common denominator, they've been involved in an A/P assisted or caused accident, or are aware of the research in the area of human in the loop automation. Further from You You Xhe's Reddit post:
. . . After tens of thousands of kilometres worth of Autopilot driving without major incidents, I have learned to trust the software. Autopilot provides users with a strong sense of security and reliability as it takes you to your destination and navigates traffic on your behalf. Clearly, I had become too trusting of the software.

Autopilot is marketed as a driver assistance feature that reduces stress and improves safety. However, the vigilance required to use the software, such as keeping both hands on the wheel and constantly monitoring the system for malfunctions or abnormal behaviour, arguably requires significantly more attention than just driving the vehicle normally without use of Autopilot. Furthermore, I believe that if Autopilot even has the small potential of misreading a clearly marked gore point, and has the potential to drive into a gore point and crash into a barrier, it should not be tested in beta, on the open road, and by normal consumers. My experience is not unique as many drivers have reported similar behaviour from Autopilot, and a fatal crash involving Autopilot on a Model X may have been caused by a disturbingly similar malfunction. . . .

I strongly believe in the capability of self-driving vehicles to not only eliminate all collisions on the road but to revolutionise our society. However, malfunctions like this greatly reduce the public’s confidence in a technology that should indeed be tested and rolled out to the public as soon as it is safe for use. I do not want to cause Tesla damage to its brand or image as I wholly support its mission and I am a big supporter.

Congratulations on having won your personal game of Russian Roulette (so far).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Sat May 26, 2018 5:25 pm

I guess the odds seem to target a lucky few particularly those that don’t use common sense. AP is not there to help bad or irespomsibke drivers . There are millions of miles on AP and those that use it often are very aware of why these accidents are happening. The big issue with AP is it does not have the ability to take bad drivers off the road.

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jlv
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Sat May 26, 2018 7:14 pm

cwerdna wrote:YouYou Xue crashed while on autopilot (aka Model 3 Road Trip) (this is while in Europe)

He was basically driving distracted: "I was taking a glance at the navigation on my phone, and was not paying full attention to the road" (from his posting on reddit)

This guy was not a safe driver. He has abused AP in the past - like in this video where he drove on the highway at night with the headlights off: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=940152862822850
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cwerdna
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Sat May 26, 2018 7:42 pm

jlv wrote:
cwerdna wrote:YouYou Xue crashed while on autopilot (aka Model 3 Road Trip) (this is while in Europe)

He was basically driving distracted: "I was taking a glance at the navigation on my phone, and was not paying full attention to the road" (from his posting on reddit)

This guy was not a safe driver. He has abused AP in the past - like in this video where he drove on the highway at night with the headlights off: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=940152862822850

Yeah, I saw that video. And, as I posted earlier, he admits to having fallen asleep 15-25 times while on the road, presumably his earlier US road trip.

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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Sat May 26, 2018 9:09 pm

jlv wrote:
cwerdna wrote:YouYou Xue crashed while on autopilot (aka Model 3 Road Trip) (this is while in Europe)

He was basically driving distracted: "I was taking a glance at the navigation on my phone, and was not paying full attention to the road" (from his posting on reddit)

This guy was not a safe driver. He has abused AP in the past - like in this video where he drove on the highway at night with the headlights off: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=940152862822850


To take the abuse analogy further, I can't believe he would ship his car to europe, knowing full well that he'd have no supercharger access and no internet, and thus no system/map updates. He was looking at the nav on his phone BECAUSE he didn't have navigation from the car! How anyone can violate the terms of agreement to that level AND still expect to place blame on anyone other than themselves is beyond reason.
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cwerdna
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Tue May 29, 2018 5:49 pm

Tesla in Autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

Tesla hits parked California police vehicle; driver blames 'Autopilot'
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesl ... SKCN1IU2SZ

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RegGuheert
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed May 30, 2018 5:20 am

cwerdna wrote:Tesla in Autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

Tesla hits parked California police vehicle; driver blames 'Autopilot'
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesl ... SKCN1IU2SZ
Elon Musk insists that his vehicles do not require LiDAR because humans can drive based almost exclusively on visual inputs. I cannot argue with that logic.

But I WILL argue with his hypocrisy. If he thinks the best way to implement self-driving vehicles is to use visual imputs, then his vehicles need to stop leaning so heavily on RADAR inputs. Plowing into parked vehicles is exactly what you would expect when RADAR is used as the main input.

It seems the authorities are going to sit on their hands until first responders start dying at the "hands" of these robots who don't see parked cars.

One question about Autopilot as implemented today: Does it honor "Move Over" laws as they are implemented in many states? If so, how does it end up so dangerously close to emergency vehicles such as this one which did not appear to be in the travel lanes. (Although I'm not sure there were two travel lanes in the direction of travel in this particular case.)
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jlv
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed May 30, 2018 6:46 am

RegGuheert wrote:One question about Autopilot as implemented today: Does it honor "Move Over" laws as they are implemented in many states?
It does not, but that's not surprising because it is not an autonomous driving system. It requires a human to be in control of the car to obey all the *many* various rules of the road (the stuff that makes autonomous driving systems hard).
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