Arizona battery degradation/ heat precaution questions

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
GerryAZ said:
GaryHere said:
Reached 7 bars today on battery temp. but oddly not till hours after a one hr L2 charge to only 70%

I dare to try connecting to a CHAdeMO

:roll:


Does this mean that the lizard battery isnt so lizardy after all :evil:
Click to expand...

7 bars is nothing--I had 9 bars Friday evening after a quick charge from 5% to 92% SOC in 32 minutes. I then drove at governed speed for a little ways at an undisclosed location. Traction motor draw was about 40 kW with high rolling resistance sport performance tires and no wind on a level surface at governed speed. The battery temperature was down to 8 bars by the time I returned home late in the evening; 7 bars the next morning after a full charge at L2 when I left for work at 4:45 AM; and 6 bars after being parked under covered parking all day.

I stopped obsessing over battery temperature a long time ago because I bought the first LEAF (and then the replacement) to drive for daily transportation around town. I record battery temperatures when I record charging data, but have never chosen to leave the car parked just because the battery was hot.
Click to expand...

hi, oh ok so I have some lee way in the bars temp it seems.


Honestly I wished I didnt know anything about the battery and such so I can enjoy the car.

I never obsessed with all my EVs batteries in the past like I do with the Leaf; I guess theres obviously some concern with it and no TMS but I really wished I didnt know hehe

On another note, I went to charge for free this AM to 80% then drove home 5 miles on the streets. The SOC showed down to 72% with only a 5 mile drive at 30-40 mph and a hill. Isnt that a bit much of a drop? 8% to go 5 miles with downhill and in ECO and B Mode and hardly over 40 mph?
 
Gary,

I would not worry about the drop from 80% to 72% SOC in a short distance. The SOC display on the dash is fairly accurate over the full range of usable charge from 0-100%, but there is fluctuation and it can be nonlinear over small changes in SOC.
 
GaryHere said:
hi, oh ok so I have some lee way in the bars temp it seems.

Honestly I wished I didnt know anything about the battery and such so I can enjoy the car.

I never obsessed with all my EVs batteries in the past like I do with the Leaf; I guess theres obviously some concern with it and no TMS but I really wished I didnt know hehe
Click to expand...
FWIW, I transitioned from 5 to 6 bars yesterday somewhere around the average temp sensor reading passing ~75 or 76 F. Don't know the exact transition temp.

Today, was a hot day (past 90 F) and unfortunately I had to park outside (garage door spring broken yesterday so I can't oen the door even manually until it's fixed, long story). Saw battery temp average reading past 83 F and was still at 6 temp bars.
 
GerryAZ said:
Gary,

I would not worry about the drop from 80% to 72% SOC in a short distance. The SOC display on the dash is fairly accurate over the full range of usable charge from 0-100%, but there is fluctuation and it can be nonlinear over small changes in SOC.
Click to expand...


ok thanks, good to know. If I get to go to the TEVA meeting here in Tucson, I am sure there will be some Leaf owners there to discuss with.

I saw a Leaf today at my gym and nearly ran after the car trying to talk to him LOL



cwerdna said:
GaryHere said:
hi, oh ok so I have some lee way in the bars temp it seems.

Honestly I wished I didnt know anything about the battery and such so I can enjoy the car.

I never obsessed with all my EVs batteries in the past like I do with the Leaf; I guess theres obviously some concern with it and no TMS but I really wished I didnt know hehe
Click to expand...
FWIW, I transitioned from 5 to 6 bars yesterday somewhere around the average temp sensor reading passing ~75 or 76 F. Don't know the exact transition temp.

Today, was a hot day (past 90 F) and unfortunately I had to park outside (garage door spring broken yesterday so I can't oen the door even manually until it's fixed, long story). Saw battery temp average reading past 83 F and was still at 6 temp bars.
Click to expand...

Ahhh 6 bars in the Bay area so I guess Im doing well here. I try to be good to the car and never park in direct sun if possible. I like to walk a bit anyways so if I see a tree, I park there.

At my apt. complex, about 3p there are spots free to park where the building casts a shadow on the car. Nice!

I only saw that one rise to 7 after a L2 charging which may or may not have been from that. Today I charged at another L2 with 6 bars intact and I even had the AC on the last 15 mins of charging.

A Volt was next to be and I could hear it swishing around cooling its battery like my Volt used to do at nite while charging.

Could have been so difficult for Nissan to put TMS in the cars back in 2011/2012 when all the trouble began? Maybe they would have saved cash by not having to replace all the batteries they did.

I know this is a dead topic but it still has me SMH everyday when I get in my Leaf.
 
GaryHere said:
A Volt was next to be and I could hear it swishing around cooling its battery like my Volt used to do at nite while charging.
Click to expand...
What happened to your Volt ? Seems like a better choice for hot climates.
 
SageBrush said:
GaryHere said:
A Volt was next to be and I could hear it swishing around cooling its battery like my Volt used to do at nite while charging.
Click to expand...
What happened to your Volt ? Seems like a better choice for hot climates.
Click to expand...

I sold it when I moved to an apartment cause I thought I wouldn't be charging much.

Briefly got a Sonic, which was my first ICE in a long time and I just couldn't do that car so that led to the Fiat 500e which no one could repair here in Tucson which led to the Leaf.

Oh u just asked about the Volt. Hehe. My bad. :D

I do love the Leaf alot however. It is built well and cool. I was thinking today how cool it was where Nissan placed the charge port. Very ingenious.
 
Evoforce said:
I agree about the charge port location. I wish all cars had them in the front.
Click to expand...

True.

The silliest location was on my Fiat 500e where it was in the rear passenger location area. A few times I had to maneuver the car into a space to get the J1772 to fit. :(

The iMiev is the same, well the L2 is on the passenger rear while the CHAdeMO is on the driver rear. (Or maybe that car is SAE combo but I know the QC is driver rear.)


SageBrush said:
GaryHere said:
On another note, I went to charge for free this AM to 80% then drove home 5 miles on the streets.
Click to expand...
Was this during your battery capacity test ?
Click to expand...


Yes. Still on that test, have another 19% to at 20%.

Another question: wouldn't faster speeds vs lower, street speeds affect the kWh/miles results?

Im thinking it would be quite lower at 55mph than 25mph on streets?

Or is speed irrelevant?
 
GaryHere said:
Evoforce said:
I agree about the charge port location. I wish all cars had them in the front.
Click to expand...

True.

The silliest location was on my Fiat 500e where it was in the rear passenger location area. A few times I had to maneuver the car into a space to get the J1772 to fit. :(


SageBrush said:
GaryHere said:
On another note, I went to charge for free this AM to 80% then drove home 5 miles on the streets.
Click to expand...
Was this during your battery capacity test ?
Click to expand...


Yes. Still on that test, have another 19% to at 20%.

Another question: wouldn't faster speeds vs lower, street speeds affect the kWh/miles results?

Im thinking it would be quite lower at 55mph than 25mph on streets?

Or is speed irrelevant?
Click to expand...
Speed will decrease your miles/kWh.

Keep this relation in mind:
rate * distance = amount
rate: miles/kWh
distance: miles
amount: kWh

If you charge in the middle of a test, you have to include it in your calculation.
 
SageBrush said:
GaryHere said:
Evoforce said:
I agree about the charge port location. I wish all cars had them in the front.
Click to expand...

True.

The silliest location was on my Fiat 500e where it was in the rear passenger location area. A few times I had to maneuver the car into a space to get the J1772 to fit. :(


SageBrush said:
Was this during your battery capacity test ?
Click to expand...


Yes. Still on that test, have another 19% to at 20%.

Another question: wouldn't faster speeds vs lower, street speeds affect the kWh/miles results?

Im thinking it would be quite lower at 55mph than 25mph on streets?

Or is speed irrelevant?
Click to expand...
Speed will decrease your miles/kWh.

Keep this relation in mind:
rate * distance = amount
rate: miles/kWh
distance: miles
amount: kWh

If you charge in the middle of a test, you have to include it in your calculation.
Click to expand...


I'm not planning on recharging till, as you instructed, I get to 20%

I was just thinking about how speed might/could change the kwh/miles.

Edit...Thank you for the explanation above with the miles/kWh, etc !
 
SageBrush said:
GaryHere said:
I'm not planning on recharging till, as you instructed, I get to 20%
Click to expand...
Ah, good. That is the simplest approach.
Click to expand...

Yup. Then I'll post results and we'll see what's up.

Part, or perhaps all the range issues I seem to think I have with the car is, since I've owned it, I've been operating in a slim range usage, namely never charged higher than 80% nor less than 30% (but will let it go to 20% for the test) so this cuts off a lot of miles but I'm not being inconvenienced by this at all; my driving needs these days are fine within that limited range so why not keep it there with 105-108 degree days coming this week. :D
 
GaryHere said:
I've been operating in a slim range usage, namely never charged higher than 80% nor less than 30% (but will let it go to 20% for the test) so this cuts off a lot of miles but I'm not being inconvenienced by this at all; my driving needs these days are fine within that limited range so why not keep it there with 105-108 degree days coming this week. :D
Click to expand...
Absolutely.

I do the same, and in the summer we try our best to park in shaded areas. I don't even want to think about the temperature of black asphalt in Tuscon in direct sunlight.
 
SageBrush said:
GaryHere said:
I've been operating in a slim range usage, namely never charged higher than 80% nor less than 30% (but will let it go to 20% for the test) so this cuts off a lot of miles but I'm not being inconvenienced by this at all; my driving needs these days are fine within that limited range so why not keep it there with 105-108 degree days coming this week. :D
Click to expand...
Absolutely.

I do the same, and in the summer we try our best to park in shaded areas. I don't even want to think about the temperature of black asphalt in Tuscon in direct sunlight.
Click to expand...

Yea that asphalt is obviously very hot and look what sits directly above it when I park: that battery lol.

I try to be careful where I park. Sometimes on the sandy area of places if no trees, much cooler.

Honestly today at the gym I seriously thought about if I'll even keep this car.

If I needed to make a long trip this week with it 108 degrees, how could I QC a few times, I'd degrade that battery. Some will say don't worry but I won't do that to the car. I know better to protect it.

We Leaf owners are the TMS for our vehicles. Lol. You hear that Nissan? Hehe.

But again the two choices I had with TMS were the Fiat 500e or the Chevy Spark.

That Spark, eh, not a fan. But some have QC so that's a plus.

Loved my Fiat. However no QC available in any model.

But no one in Tucson can repair a Spark EV nor Fiat 500e but they can repair a Leaf here.
 
Gary,

For what it is worth, here is my experience with the 2011 Leaf battery vs. 2015 Leaf battery in Phoenix.

2011: At 14 months of ownership I was down to 10 battery bars. I parked the car in my garage every day, which gets incredibly hot in the summer -- and retains the heat overnight. Nissan bought that car back from me but I was hooked by the EV bug and couldn't stand driving ICE.

So, in 2015 I bought a used 2011 Leaf with a month-old 2015 Lizard battery. During the hot months (May-October) I did not park my car in the garage during the day. Instead, I parked in front of my house, with no shade. But I figured the air temp cooled down quicker on the street than it did in my garage. I walk every morning at 4:30 am, so during those hot months I would move the car into my garage at 4:30 and let it charge until I left for work at 7. That system worked out great and was not inconvenient.

I am now in month 34 of ownership of the Lizard battery car and still show 11 bars. Although, I have been thinking for months that I will lose #11 any day. My full charge currently shows 222 gids. And the range is definitely more like 10 bars than 11.

I only fastcharged my 2011 twice (at the beginning and at the end of the Phoenix Leaf Range Test in 2012). My Lizard battery car doesn't have fastcharge ability.

Good luck with your car and enjoy it!

Kelly
 
leafkabob said:
Gary,

For what it is worth, here is my experience with the 2011 Leaf battery vs. 2015 Leaf battery in Phoenix.

2011: At 14 months of ownership I was down to 10 battery bars. I parked the car in my garage every day, which gets incredibly hot in the summer -- and retains the heat overnight. Nissan bought that car back from me but I was hooked by the EV bug and couldn't stand driving ICE.

So, in 2015 I bought a used 2011 Leaf with a month-old 2015 Lizard battery. During the hot months (May-October) I did not park my car in the garage during the day. Instead, I parked in front of my house, with no shade. But I figured the air temp cooled down quicker on the street than it did in my garage. I walk every morning at 4:30 am, so during those hot months I would move the car into my garage at 4:30 and let it charge until I left for work at 7. That system worked out great and was not inconvenient.

I am now in month 34 of ownership of the Lizard battery car and still show 11 bars. Although, I have been thinking for months that I will lose #11 any day. My full charge currently shows 222 gids. And the range is definitely more like 10 bars than 11.

I only fastcharged my 2011 twice (at the beginning and at the end of the Phoenix Leaf Range Test in 2012). My Lizard battery car doesn't have fastcharge ability.

Good luck with your car and enjoy it!

Kelly
Click to expand...

Hi Kelly, thanks for sharing your experience with your Leafs, much appreciated.

Sounds like that battery could handle our heat here a bit better than the older batteries so this info is encouraging to me.

Also was thinking while reading this, that being the Leaf unfortunately has a past negative battery-heat relationship, and most owners (plus the capacity is shown ok the dash unlike most other popular EV's) check their batteries with Leaf Spy etc and know more details than other EV owners do, who knows what's really going on with other EV battery degradation since no one delves into it as deep as Leaf owners do.

At least I've never read anyone testing a Miev, Fiat 500e etc battery, though likely some do and have; I just never see anything online regarding battery capacity as much as I see with the Leaf, the Leaf dominates this topic when Google searched.

Anyways thanks for your post and stay cool this week and the summer.

Gary
 
leafkabob said:
So, in 2015 I bought a used 2011 Leaf with a month-old 2015 Lizard battery. During the hot months (May-October) I did not park my car in the garage during the day. Instead, I parked in front of my house, with no shade. But I figured the air temp cooled down quicker on the street than it did in my garage. I walk every morning at 4:30 am, so during those hot months I would move the car into my garage at 4:30 and let it charge until I left for work at 7. That system worked out great and was not inconvenient.

I am now in month 34 of ownership of the Lizard battery car and still show 11 bars. Although, I have been thinking for months that I will lose #11 any day. My full charge currently shows 222 gids. And the range is definitely more like 10 bars than 11.
Click to expand...
Smart !
 
Gary,

I don't think the occasional DCFC is going to matter to your overall battery degradation rate. The day in, day out high temperatures, particularly if the battery stews at high SoC, are the issue.
 
SageBrush said:
Gary,

I don't think the occasional DCFC is going to matter to your overall battery degradation rate. The day in, day out high temperatures, particularly if the battery stews at high SoC, are the issue.
Click to expand...

Ahh ok, thank you.


I should have the numbers from the test today, I'm at 26% SOC. ;)

At my current rate of usage, I'll be logging only a little less than 2000 miles a year on my Leaf.
 

Similar threads

E
charge rate affects battery degradation?
Replies
12
Views
11K
Stanton
Stanton
N
Newbie Battery Questions
Replies
12
Views
4K
goldbrick
G
W
Question on Battery for Used 2015 Nissan Leaf
Replies
12
Views
3K
LeftieBiker
L
T
[help] Rapid battery discharge, "limited motor power", and sporadic power output at temp. < 30F and > 40% motor power.
4 5 6
Replies
109
Views
25K
Goodbar
Goodbar
N
Newbie with a low mileage 2015 wondering about range degradation.
2
Replies
21
Views
7K
cwerdna
C

Latest posts

Back
Top