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jlv said:
Trying to say the introduction of the MCU2 shows some failing of the OTA process just doesn't make sense to me.

Sorry if you misinterpreted my view. Having the Telsa OTA update function is a great benefit to the consumer just as it's
beneficial for other consumer products, e.g. PCs & cell phones. But just like with those products, there're limitations over
time (as systems evolve), e.g. a minimum required processor/memory, faster USB ports, 4G cellular radios, etc, that can't be OTAed. As an example,
my gen 1 Apple tablet no longer receives OTA updates. Again, the point is that the OTA function is limited, generally requiring
a dealer visit to re-flash (if possible) or a new ECU when the update is extensive or critical to vehicle safety.

Edit: Clarified time.
 
lorenfb said:
jlv said:
Trying to say the introduction of the MCU2 shows some failing of the OTA process just doesn't make sense to me.

Sorry if you misinterpreted my view. Having the Telsa OTA update function is a great benefit to the consumer just as it's
beneficial for other consumer products, e.g. PCs & cell phones. But just like with those products, there're limitations over
time, e.g. a minimum required processor/memory, faster USB ports, 4G cellular radios, etc, that can't be OTAed. As an example,
my gen 1 Apple tablet no longer receives OTA updates. Again, the point is that the OTA function is limited, generally requiring
a dealer visit to re-flash (if possible) or a new ECU when the update is extensive or critical to vehicle safety.

Restrictions? No there are not. Please site devices, examples, specifics. Other than slow downloads on weak cellular (moot) or when no wifi is available what EACTLY are you talking about? You have implied and stated this before yet Tesla can update any device and any level of firmware and would like to know of examples where the car needs to go to the dealer for this except in repair cases. What update failures please?
 
lorenfb said:
Again, the point is that the OTA function is limited, generally requiring
a dealer visit to re-flash (if possible) or a new ECU when the update is extensive or critical to vehicle safety.
I still don't see how the introduction of the MCU2 shows that the OTA function is limited.


Nearly 17 years ago I worked on a carrier class PDSN/GGSN - the backend 'router' that gives cell phones internet access. We started out with a few separate boards in a massively parallel system that each had different firmware, FGPA, and microcode images, as well as an operating system image with user-space router that needed to boot on top of this. Most of those images were written to different flash parts accessible by different buses. Updating a board required a lot of technician time - and an early problem was finding boards with one or other image out-of-date. Another engineer and myself designed a scheme to encapsulate all the images into a single boot image, and worked on dynamic update logic to reflash appropriate parts of the system at runtime. Our approach enabled complete dynamic updates on the system, the logical equivalent of Tesla's OTA (there was no "over-the-air" in our system).

At the time we were told it our approach would never work for processor and support chip microcode... but we proved such naysayers wrong by building a working system. When we built the 2nd generation boards using Intel parts (the first generation used Broadcom MIPS-based SOCs), we had our single boot image support all the firmware, FPGA, and microcode images for both generations of board. Cisco still lists a "future-proof architecture" as one of its key selling points.
 
jlv said:
Speaking of the negatives of OTAs:

Last week I got 2018.16 in my S. The unannounced new feature of this release is: they broke the heated steering wheel. :x It just doesn't get warm at all. Many owners reporting this after this update (myself included: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/update-2018-16.113936/). I expect a 2018.16.1 or 2018.17 soon to fix it.
At least they did it in April instead of January. :lol:
 
Now that loaded Ss can be picked up for about the price of a new LEAF, buying one may seem attractive at first glance, but...

Sounds like this early S probably cost the first owner something approaching $1-per-mile in TCO.

To the second owner, good luck...

Why Wait For A Tesla Model 3 When You Can Have A Model S For $33k?

...This 2012 Model S, boasting 107,000 miles (172,200 km) on the clock, for example, cost him just $33,500.

Right off the bat, Hoover pretty much knew what to expect thanks to a previous Model S experience. With three out of the four retractable door handles already replaced, he says that one of them is still on track to fail – a $1,000 fix…

Another costly item that had also been replaced was the $4,000 touchscreen, which has been known to fail on early cars such as this 2012 one. Despite still operating on the old 3G network, the infotainment system works well, as do all the car’s electronics.

What about the battery?

The battery represents the main issue with old electric cars. However, even after 107,000 miles, this Tesla’s battery is still at 90% of its original capacity, which matches the expected rate of degradation in the Model S.

Finally, this car offers an extra peace of mind by having the extended warranty. Instead of the standard 4-year/50,000-mile bumper-to-bumper coverage, this 2012 Model S has an 8-year/unlimited mileage warranty, which means that even if something does go wrong with the battery or the drivetrain, Tesla should fix it for free within the next two years...
https://www.carscoops.com/2018/05/wait-tesla-model-3-can-model-s-33k/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF6GqSAnEmM
 
Not exactly a surprise that the S takes first place:

25 Most Expensive Cars to Insure

...1. Tesla Model S four-door electric 4WD
> Annual average insurance paid: $1,789.48
> Annual collision insurance paid: $1310.40
> Type: Large luxury
> Retail price: $74,500
https://247wallst.com/special-report/2018/05/22/25-most-expensive-cars-to-insure/6/

BTW, the LEAF makes #13, for least expensive...

https://247wallst.com/special-report/2018/05/22/25-least-expensive-cars-to-insure/4/
 
http://abc7.com/autopilot-tesla-crashes-into-police-suv-in-oc/3536419/

Two of the three Tesla autopilot collisions cited in this article are into first responder vehicles - 1 fire, 1 police. The other was a concrete wall. A conspiracy theorist could suggest Tesla is anti-government. :lol:

Could this be the real reason Musk wants to control what the media reports?

"Tesla has said that while its autopilot system is supposed to help detect nearby vehicles and avoid collisions, it shouldn't be used in areas with intersections, stop signs, red lights or suddenly changing traffic patterns." So this really is only for long rural highways... Somehow a lot of their customers aren't getting this memo.
 
Early fourth of July Celebration on a SOCAL street, courtesy of Elon Musk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VtbBKnG97c

Tesla goes up in flames in video captured by actor Mary McCormack

Actor says husband was flagged down by passersby who told him to get out

Actor Mary McCormack has shared video of her husband’s Tesla car catching fire while in traffic in California. Flames can be seen shooting out from underneath the vehicle as it sits on the side of the road.

McCormack said in an accompanying tweet it was not the result of an accident and that the incident came “out of the blue”...

Tesla called the incident “an extraordinarily unusual occurrence” and said it was investigating...
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jun/17/tesla-fire-video-mary-mccormack-california

The TSLA stooge site insideevs can't quite bring itself to accurately report that among BEVs only TSLA uses highly flammable battery packs, and even manages to point out the upside of having your BEV burst into flames...

Tesla Model S Catches Fire While In Motion – Not Caused By Crash

...While driving down the road, this Model S became engulfed in flames. The driver was alerted by other motorists and pulled over to quickly exit the vehicle unharmed...

Historically, electric car fires are rare, though it does seem Teslas are more prone to this than other electric cars. Part of this may lie in the cell chemistry, which is considered more volatile than what most other automakers employ. The upside is that Tesla batteries are the most energy dense in the electric car segment...
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-catches-fire-while-in-motion-not-caused-by-crash/
 
Regarding the above Model S fire....

Chevy Offers Loaner Bolt To Couple Who Lost Tesla Model S To Fire
https://insideevs.com/chevy-offers-loaner-bolt-to-couple-who-lost-tesla-model-s-to-fire/
:mrgreen:
 
cwerdna said:
Regarding the above Model S fire....
2 federal agencies take closer look into Tesla fire

One federal safety agency has dispatched an investigator and another says it is gathering information on a Tesla battery fire in Southern California.

The National Transportation Safety Board said Monday it is sending a technical specialist to watch Tesla's examination of the Model S that caught fire Friday on a street in West Hollywood. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in a statement that it "continues to collect information regarding this incident and will take appropriate action as warranted."...

The NTSB makes recommendations on transportation safety issues, while NHTSA has authority to seek regulations and recalls...
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/the-associated-press-2-federal-agencies-take-closer-look-into-tesla-fire.html
 
cwerdna said:
Regarding the above Model S fire....

Chevy Offers Loaner Bolt To Couple Who Lost Tesla Model S To Fire
https://insideevs.com/chevy-offers-loaner-bolt-to-couple-who-lost-tesla-model-s-to-fire/
:mrgreen:
Is a Hollywood A-lister really interested in being seen in a Bolt?
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
cwerdna said:
Regarding the above Model S fire....

Chevy Offers Loaner Bolt To Couple Who Lost Tesla Model S To Fire
https://insideevs.com/chevy-offers-loaner-bolt-to-couple-who-lost-tesla-model-s-to-fire/
:mrgreen:
Is a Hollywood A-lister really interested in being seen in a Bolt?
You'd be surprised. Numerous celebrities drive or used to drive Priuses: https://priuschat.com/threads/list-of-celebrities-who-drive-a-prius.129181/.

Some of them just don't want to stand out, which they would if they drove something flashy.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
cwerdna said:
Regarding the above Model S fire....

Chevy Offers Loaner Bolt To Couple Who Lost Tesla Model S To Fire
https://insideevs.com/chevy-offers-loaner-bolt-to-couple-who-lost-tesla-model-s-to-fire/
:mrgreen:
Is a Hollywood A-lister really interested in being seen in a Bolt?
"Hollywood A-lister"? Never heard of either of them myself, but I imagine even "Hollywood A-lister" parents don't want to contemplate their kids being inside a Tesla when the pack ignites, so while they may not replace their S with a Bolt, I'd be surprised if they replace it with another Tesla...

Mary McCormack
... This is what happened to my husband and his car today. No accident,out of the blue, in traffic on Santa Monica Blvd. Thank you to the kind couple who flagged him down and told him to pull over. And thank god my three little girls weren’t in the car with him...
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jun/17/tesla-fire-video-mary-mccormack-california
 
cwerdna said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
cwerdna said:
Regarding the above Model S fire....

Chevy Offers Loaner Bolt To Couple Who Lost Tesla Model S To Fire
https://insideevs.com/chevy-offers-loaner-bolt-to-couple-who-lost-tesla-model-s-to-fire/
:mrgreen:
Is a Hollywood A-lister really interested in being seen in a Bolt?
You'd be surprised. Numerous celebrities drive or used to drive Priuses: https://priuschat.com/threads/list-of-celebrities-who-drive-a-prius.129181/.

Some of them just don't want to stand out, which they would if they drove something flashy.

Flashy? You mean like a Tesla Model S?
 
When will GM offer EV loaners to their customers whose cars burn up every year and are never covered in the media at a ratio that makes all EVs look like the gold standard for safety? No. Did not hurt that there is a personal connection to relative here from GM. The FUD goes on and on. Nothing worse than companies that pretend to be helping in opportunistic situations like this but don't do a thing for their own customers.
 
More on the tragic accident last month, in which two teenagers who survived the crash were burned to death when they could not be rescued from the flaming model S.

Battery in fatal Florida Tesla crash reignited twice: NTSB report

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A Tesla Inc Model S involved in a May 8 fatal high-speed crash in Florida reignited twice after firefighters extinguished a fire in the electric vehicle, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said in a preliminary report on Tuesday.

The report said the vehicle was traveling 116 miles (187 km) per hour seconds before it crashed into a metal light pole. The Fort Lauderdale Fire Department found the vehicle fully engulfed in flames and extinguished the vehicle fire using 200–300 gallons (around 750-1,100 liters) of water and foam, the NTSB said.

The report said during removal of the car from the scene, the battery reignited and was quickly extinguished. “Upon arrival at the storage yard, the battery reignited again,” the report said, and was again quickly put out.

Tesla declined to comment on the report, but has said its vehicles are much less likely to catch fire than gasoline-powered vehicles.

There have been other reported cases of crashed Tesla battery packs reigniting, including after a fatal Tesla crash in March in California.

In the California crash, the battery reignited five days after the crash in an impound lot and was extinguished by the San Mateo Fire Department.

NTSB said its investigation into the Florida crash that killed two teenagers in the vehicle “will also include examining the procedures used to extinguish the battery fire and to remove and store the car postcrash.”...

The NTSB said last week it was sending a technical specialist to review Tesla’s examination of a battery fire in West Hollywood, California after actress Mary McCormack posted a video of her husband’s Tesla emitting flames. No one was injured...

Earlier this year, the NTSB confirmed it was investigating an August 2017 Tesla battery fire in Lake Forest, California, after an owner lost control and ran the vehicle into his garage...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-fire/battery-in-fatal-florida-tesla-crash-reignited-twice-ntsb-report-idUSKBN1JM2UG

There is an obvious conflict between that report and on the TSLA fansite below on whether the car actually was speed limited on the day of the fatal crash:

Tesla dedicates new speed limiting feature to 18-yr-old who died in a Model S crash

...The automaker describes the feature in the update:

“Limit vehicle speed and acceleration with speed limit mode. Maximum vehicle speed can be set between 50-90 mph (80-145 km/h).”

When Tesla launched the feature, we speculated that it might be aimed at parents who let their kids drive their Tesla vehicles, which are considered quite powerful vehicles to be used as first cars by teenagers.

Now we learn that it’s likely what Tesla had in mind since they dedicated the new feature to Barrett Riley in the release notes...

Riley died last month after he crashed the Model S that his father bought him into a wall before the vehicle burst into flames. One of his two passengers, Edgar Monserratt Martinez, 18, also lost his life in the crash.

James Riley, Barrett’s father, bought a Tesla for his son because of the vehicle being known for its level of safety, said his aunt Pat Riley (via Sun Sentinel):

“My brother bought the car for my nephew because he wanted Barrett to be safe. He thought other cars were riskier because the gas could cause a fire. How ironic.”

The father was aware of his son’s lead foot and attempted to address the issue following the speeding ticket.

Knowing that Tesla’s loaner cars can’t go over 85 mph, James Riley reached out to Tesla to see if they could limit the top speed of his son’s car, which Tesla did on request...
https://electrek.co/2018/06/26/tesla-dedicates-new-speed-limiting-feature-kid-died-model-s-crash/

TSLA battery fires, along with the high driver death rates suffered in model S and X vehicles, and other TSLA safety issues belong on a seperate thread.

However, the abusive behavior of a MNL moderator, EVDRIVER, makes this impossible:

Tesla's vehicle safety record

EVDRIVER

Ed, don't start unneeded threads specifically to start an agenda biased thread. You are getting out of hand with this stuff. This is a warning for you to take it back a notch. This thread is locked.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25938

I don't know what EVDRIVER meant by that " warning.", or how a thread could be "biased".

But I will point out that any TSLA apologists, and specifically for-profit entities like MNL, which take actions to conceal or misrepresent the facts of TSLA vehicles' safety record, could be exposing themselves to potential liability.

And, IMO whoever convinced those teenager's parents that the TSLA their kids died in was safe, is certainly morally culpable for their own contribution to their deaths.
 
Local news coverage seems to confirm that TSLA's modification to limit the S's speed failed.

That, and the victim's relative's statements from the video, "...Why did the car catch fire and trap the boys?..." suggests this will likely be a very expensive legal matter for TSLA to resolve.

NTSB Preliminary Report: Tesla Hit Speed Of 116 MPH Before Lauderdale Crash That Killed 2

...Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board said Tuesday the Tesla Model S that crashed and burned May 8th in Fort Lauderdale was traveling at 116 miles per hour, three seconds before impact....

Two people were killed in the crash, the driver, 18-year-old Barrett Riley, and the front seat passenger 18-year-old Edgar Monserratt. The medical examiner ruled that Riley died of thermal injuries and Monserratt died of blunt force trauma and thermal injuries. Alexander Berry, 18, who was in the back seat, was ejected on impact. He was taken to Broward Health Medical Center.

CBS 4 News reported several weeks ago that Riley’s family said they modified the vehicle to only travel at a top speed of 85 miles per hour after Riley received a speeding ticket in March for going 112 miles per hour...
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2018/06/26/ntsb-preliminary-report-tesla-hit-speed-of-116-mph-before-lauderdale-crash-that-killed-2/
 
edatoakrun said:
CBS 4 News reported several weeks ago that Riley’s family said they modified the vehicle to only travel at a top speed of 85 miles per hour after Riley received a speeding ticket in March for going 112 miles per hour...
Up until the firmware release this week with the new speed limiter, the only way I knew an owner could limit the speed was to put the car in valet mode, which limits it to 70 MPH. I'm not sure how they set a limit of 85.

Back to personal responsibility, if my son had gotten a speeding ticket for doing 112 MPH :!:, you can damn well be sure I wouldn't be letting him use the car at all anymore.
 
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