This is normal?

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
More frustrating results just now.

Went ONLY 10.5 miles driving some at 60mph and rest streets. Ac on freeway then off on streets.

21% drop in SOC for only 10.5 miles? I cant imagine what it would be when I start to lose bars :(


SageBrush, I began the test and reset when I hit 80% SOC.

3AacFv3.jpg



0LZjH8i.jpg
 
I'm not sure if this helps, but TaylorSFGuy reported waaaaay back in 2011, that, when driving, the 10th bar seems to drop more quickly than the bars on either side. IIRC, this was a leading indicator of a permanent bar loss.
 
SageBrush said:
OK.
Post your miles/kWh and trip miles when you get down to ~ 20% SoC

Ok. Will do. Thanks again.



Reddy said:
I'm not sure if this helps, but TaylorSFGuy reported waaaaay back in 2011, that, when driving, the 10th bar seems to drop more quickly than the bars on either side. IIRC, this was a leading indicator of a permanent bar loss.

I wouldn't be surprised if that is going to happen with this car.

At this point I'm kinda turned off by the car :(
 
GaryHere said:
More frustrating results just now.

Went ONLY 10.5 miles driving some at 60mph and rest streets. Ac on freeway then off on streets.

21% drop in SOC for only 10.5 miles? I cant imagine what it would be when I start to lose bars :(


SageBrush, I began the test and reset when I hit 80% SOC.

3AacFv3.jpg



0LZjH8i.jpg

I don't usually quote posts with images, but this is an exception. When the GOM is showing 91 miles with 83% charge, it is wrong, unless you are driving at 30MPH. The 62 miles at 62% SOC is pretty close to what a very good pack would show, OTOH. I think that when you drive home to park your car you are driving slowly and gently. This inflates the GOM estimate when you start it up again, and it corrects itself over the next 10 miles or so. What really matters here is the actual range available, not the GOM readings. Only a range test will give the that, and I think that when you do one you will be pleasantly surprised. I have found that with gentle but not slow driving my 24kwh Leaf would gradually converge its real world range with the GOM estimate over the course of most trips, with the two converging at roughly 40 miles left.
 
LeftieBiker said:
When the GOM is showing 91 miles with 83% charge, it is wrong, unless you are driving at 30MPH. The 62 miles at 62% SOC is pretty close to what a very good pack would show, OTOH. I think that when you drive home to park your car you are driving slowly and gently. This inflates the GOM estimate when you start it up again, and it corrects itself over the next 10 miles or so. What really matters here is the actual range available, not the GOM readings. Only a range test will give the that, and think that when you do one you will be pleasantly surprised.
Quite likely. Excellent reply.
This is why I told him that little snippets would drive him crazy.

1. Decent range test
2. Draw conclusions

The rest is noise
 
LeftieBiker said:
I don't usually quote posts with images, but this is an exception. When the GOM is showing 91 miles with 83% charge, it is wrong, unless you are driving at 30MPH. The 62 miles at 62% SOC is pretty close to what a very good pack would show, OTOH. I think that when you drive home to park your car you are driving slowly and gently. This inflates the GOM estimate when you start it up again, and it corrects itself over the next 10 miles or so. What really matters here is the actual range available, not the GOM readings. Only a range test will give the that, and I think that when you do one you will be pleasantly surprised. I have found that with gentle but not slow driving my 24kwh Leaf would gradually converge its real world range with the GOM estimate over the course of most trips, with the two converging at roughly 40 miles left.


Well I am glad you did :)

I dont pay much mine to that GOM at all; it was basically the same in my Volt, was just an estimate of the last previous driving habits but it was that drop of 21% that really threw me for only that short of miles driven

This is all new to me, Im only 11 days into owning a Leaf so I guess some patience is needed here on my part :D




SageBrush said:
LeftieBiker said:
When the GOM is showing 91 miles with 83% charge, it is wrong, unless you are driving at 30MPH. The 62 miles at 62% SOC is pretty close to what a very good pack would show, OTOH. I think that when you drive home to park your car you are driving slowly and gently. This inflates the GOM estimate when you start it up again, and it corrects itself over the next 10 miles or so. What really matters here is the actual range available, not the GOM readings. Only a range test will give the that, and think that when you do one you will be pleasantly surprised.
Quite likely. Excellent reply.
This is why I told him that little snippets would drive him crazy.

1. Decent range test
2. Draw conclusions

The rest is noise

I like that: Noise hehe

Good points

I will just sit it out till we get to the 20% SOC and see

But I might call on you for the math help, I am still not clear 100% with all the x and such

Sorry it must be the heat heat making me not too bright in my math, though I never was ! :)
 
GaryHere said:
But I might call on you for the math help, I am still not clear 100% with all the x and such
No worries. Lots of people here happy to help.

I should clarify, I mean statistical noise. No insult intended
 
SageBrush said:
GaryHere said:
But I might call on you for the math help, I am still not clear 100% with all the x and such
No worries. Lots of people here happy to help.

I should clarify, I mean statistical noise. No insult intended

Yes I find this has been an awesome place to get help!

I am very very grateful for it and appreciative for all the help.


I knew what you meant by noise but I do complain a lot for sure ! LOL

Probably why I am single hehe
 
Remember that you bought this car used.... So you cannot necessarily expect to get one mile of driving / per 1% of charge.. That is pretty much for a newish car.

If you were driving 60MPH AND using the A/C, It is possible that you could have used 20% charge to go 10 miles.

You really need to charge the car to 100% until the three blue dash lights GO OFF. Then reset the miles/ KW, and the odometer. Then drive a good 40-50 miles on the highway at or under 55 MPH. (I personally like to drive at 53 MPH to get the best economy) . No A/C, no Heat....

At the end of the 50 miles, see what the battery charge % is... It should be 45-50%.... That is the scientific way to do this... This topic has had too many posts back and forth that are not helping you assess and get used to you new car's individual capacities.... Not knowing the battery capacity with Leafspy, this is the only true way to see......
 
powersurge said:
You really need to charge the car to 100% until the three blue dash lights GO OFF. Then reset the miles/ KW, and the odometer. Then drive a good 40-50 miles on the highway at or under 55 MPH. (I personally like to drive at 53 MPH to get the best economy) . No A/C, no Heat....
No good reason to charge to 100%. In fact the specific start and stop SoC do not matter. Just the delta. Larger deltas are more accurate.
Speed does not matter
A/C etc use does not matter


miles per percent is irrelevant. I think I'll add a graphic that may help clarify how this test works.

Addendum:

uc
 
Parenthetically, this test can be run 'in reverse' for the same results, charging instead of discharging the battery:

Go to an EVSE like Chargepoint (CP) that reports the kWh during the charging sesssion
Note starting SoC
Charge up an hour or two
Multiply kWh reported from CP by 0.875 to account for charging losses
Note end SoC

Then same arithmetic of discounted_kWh / SoC_delta

This may be an easier way to verify battery capacity of a car at a dealer. They may not be happy with a 50+ mile test drive but not object to (and probably quietly appreciate) the car sitting at an EVSE for a test and being returned charged. You don't have to say that the battery capacity is being confirmed. Just say you want to be sure the battery is OK.
 
SageBrush said:
powersurge said:
You really need to charge the car to 100% until the three blue dash lights GO OFF. Then reset the miles/ KW, and the odometer. Then drive a good 40-50 miles on the highway at or under 55 MPH. (I personally like to drive at 53 MPH to get the best economy) . No A/C, no Heat....
No good reason to charge to 100%. In fact the specific start and stop SoC do not matter. Just the delta. Larger deltas are more accurate.
Speed does not matter
A/C etc use does not matter


miles per percent is irrelevant. I think I'll add a graphic that may help clarify how this test works.

Addendum:

uc


^^ Thats a great addendum, thanks much!!




SageBrush said:
Parenthetically, this test can be run 'in reverse' for the same results, charging instead of discharging the battery:

Go to an EVSE like Chargepoint (CP) that reports the kWh during the charging sesssion
Note starting SoC
Charge up an hour or two
Multiply kWh reported from CP by 0.875 to account for charging losses
Note end SoC

Then same arithmetic of discounted_kWh / SoC_delta

This may be an easier way to verify battery capacity of a car at a dealer. They may not be happy with a 50+ mile test drive but not object to (and probably quietly appreciate) the car sitting at an EVSE for a test and being returned charged. You don't have to say that the battery capacity is being confirmed. Just say you want to be sure the battery is OK.

Ahh, never thought of that so I am glad you posted that, makes total sense.

This would totally be easier if at a dealer for sure.

1 question: How do you come up with the figure 0.875 from? I know you modified it for charging loss but the base number was just a 1?

Thanks again.
 
SageBrush said:
GaryHere said:
I know you modified it for charging loss but the base number was just a 1?
Yep

Thanx. Also thanx for the correction.

So just to ask but when this test is over, what's final numbers would be considered acceptable or good?
 
GaryHere said:
So just to ask but when this test is over, what's final numbers would be considered acceptable or good?
That depends on your use requirements and the price you paid.

The kWh test is (in my mind anyway) meant to give the buyer confidence that the displayed battery capacity bars has not been meddled with. It might also be more accurate than "12 bars" since that has a 15% range but I don't know that for sure.
 
SageBrush said:
GaryHere said:
So just to ask but when this test is over, what's final numbers would be considered acceptable or good?
That depends on your use requirements and the price you paid.

The kWh test is (in my mind anyway) meant to give the buyer confidence that the displayed battery capacity bars has not been meddled with. It might also be more accurate than "12 bars" since that has a 15% range but I don't know that for sure.


Ok good deal. continuing the test, still have a lot of miles to go unless I hop on the freeway today but I doubt it cause its too hot now.

On another note, seems L2 day time charging raises me up to 7 bars battery temp but by the next day its back to 6 like right now.

So I will just charge at nite, if possible, I never saw it go to 7 with night time charging.


Im am really curious to try the DCQC if I could find one close just to experience that speed of charging.
 
GaryHere said:
Im am really curious to try the DCQC if I could find one close just to experience that speed of charging.
If you don't like the temperature jump from L2 charging, DCFC is going to be quite a bit less appealing.
If you are willing to make do with a number, then about 3 kWh every 4-5 minutes.

I gather you have been charging at Blink stations. Do they report kWh delivered from the meter ? If yes, please repeat the test during a recharge. It will give us some data regarding the accuracy of the miles/kWh meter.

By the way, I may not have answered your earlier question in a helpful way. '12 bars' of battery capacity correspond to 85 - 100% new battery capacity, and 100% is ~ 22 kWh. Since your car reports 12 bars, you expect the test to return a result between 18.7 - 22 kWh. That is probably good enough data for you, but once you are confident that the car battery metrics have not been meddled with you can always get from LeafSpy [the best data we know of].
 
Back
Top