SageBrush
Posts: 2847
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: This is normal?

Thu May 31, 2018 6:21 am

powersurge wrote:You really need to charge the car to 100% until the three blue dash lights GO OFF. Then reset the miles/ KW, and the odometer. Then drive a good 40-50 miles on the highway at or under 55 MPH. (I personally like to drive at 53 MPH to get the best economy) . No A/C, no Heat....

No good reason to charge to 100%. In fact the specific start and stop SoC do not matter. Just the delta. Larger deltas are more accurate.
Speed does not matter
A/C etc use does not matter


miles per percent is irrelevant. I think I'll add a graphic that may help clarify how this test works.

Addendum:

Image
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2847
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: This is normal?

Thu May 31, 2018 11:06 am

Parenthetically, this test can be run 'in reverse' for the same results, charging instead of discharging the battery:

Go to an EVSE like Chargepoint (CP) that reports the kWh during the charging sesssion
Note starting SoC
Charge up an hour or two
Multiply kWh reported from CP by 0.875 to account for charging losses
Note end SoC

Then same arithmetic of discounted_kWh / SoC_delta

This may be an easier way to verify battery capacity of a car at a dealer. They may not be happy with a 50+ mile test drive but not object to (and probably quietly appreciate) the car sitting at an EVSE for a test and being returned charged. You don't have to say that the battery capacity is being confirmed. Just say you want to be sure the battery is OK.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: This is normal?

Thu May 31, 2018 12:06 pm

SageBrush wrote:
powersurge wrote:You really need to charge the car to 100% until the three blue dash lights GO OFF. Then reset the miles/ KW, and the odometer. Then drive a good 40-50 miles on the highway at or under 55 MPH. (I personally like to drive at 53 MPH to get the best economy) . No A/C, no Heat....

No good reason to charge to 100%. In fact the specific start and stop SoC do not matter. Just the delta. Larger deltas are more accurate.
Speed does not matter
A/C etc use does not matter


miles per percent is irrelevant. I think I'll add a graphic that may help clarify how this test works.

Addendum:

Image



^^ Thats a great addendum, thanks much!!




SageBrush wrote:Parenthetically, this test can be run 'in reverse' for the same results, charging instead of discharging the battery:

Go to an EVSE like Chargepoint (CP) that reports the kWh during the charging sesssion
Note starting SoC
Charge up an hour or two
Multiply kWh reported from CP by 0.875 to account for charging losses
Note end SoC

Then same arithmetic of discounted_kWh / SoC_delta

This may be an easier way to verify battery capacity of a car at a dealer. They may not be happy with a 50+ mile test drive but not object to (and probably quietly appreciate) the car sitting at an EVSE for a test and being returned charged. You don't have to say that the battery capacity is being confirmed. Just say you want to be sure the battery is OK.


Ahh, never thought of that so I am glad you posted that, makes total sense.

This would totally be easier if at a dealer for sure.

1 question: How do you come up with the figure 0.875 from? I know you modified it for charging loss but the base number was just a 1?

Thanks again.

SageBrush
Posts: 2847
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: This is normal?

Thu May 31, 2018 12:09 pm

GaryHere wrote: I know you modified it for charging loss but the base number was just a 1?

Yep
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2847
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: This is normal?

Thu May 31, 2018 12:16 pm

Correction for the graphic:
kWh/miles should be kWh/mile
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: This is normal?

Thu May 31, 2018 12:56 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GaryHere wrote: I know you modified it for charging loss but the base number was just a 1?

Yep


Thanx. Also thanx for the correction.

So just to ask but when this test is over, what's final numbers would be considered acceptable or good?

SageBrush
Posts: 2847
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: This is normal?

Thu May 31, 2018 2:06 pm

GaryHere wrote:So just to ask but when this test is over, what's final numbers would be considered acceptable or good?

That depends on your use requirements and the price you paid.

The kWh test is (in my mind anyway) meant to give the buyer confidence that the displayed battery capacity bars has not been meddled with. It might also be more accurate than "12 bars" since that has a 15% range but I don't know that for sure.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2847
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: This is normal?

Thu May 31, 2018 2:08 pm

SageBrush wrote:Correction for the graphic:
kWh/miles should be kWh/mile


Argh, stupid me.
kWh/miles was correct :shock:
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GaryHere
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Re: This is normal?

Thu May 31, 2018 3:45 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GaryHere wrote:So just to ask but when this test is over, what's final numbers would be considered acceptable or good?

That depends on your use requirements and the price you paid.

The kWh test is (in my mind anyway) meant to give the buyer confidence that the displayed battery capacity bars has not been meddled with. It might also be more accurate than "12 bars" since that has a 15% range but I don't know that for sure.



Ok good deal. continuing the test, still have a lot of miles to go unless I hop on the freeway today but I doubt it cause its too hot now.

On another note, seems L2 day time charging raises me up to 7 bars battery temp but by the next day its back to 6 like right now.

So I will just charge at nite, if possible, I never saw it go to 7 with night time charging.


Im am really curious to try the DCQC if I could find one close just to experience that speed of charging.

SageBrush
Posts: 2847
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: This is normal?

Thu May 31, 2018 6:23 pm

GaryHere wrote:Im am really curious to try the DCQC if I could find one close just to experience that speed of charging.

If you don't like the temperature jump from L2 charging, DCFC is going to be quite a bit less appealing.
If you are willing to make do with a number, then about 3 kWh every 4-5 minutes.

I gather you have been charging at Blink stations. Do they report kWh delivered from the meter ? If yes, please repeat the test during a recharge. It will give us some data regarding the accuracy of the miles/kWh meter.

By the way, I may not have answered your earlier question in a helpful way. '12 bars' of battery capacity correspond to 85 - 100% new battery capacity, and 100% is ~ 22 kWh. Since your car reports 12 bars, you expect the test to return a result between 18.7 - 22 kWh. That is probably good enough data for you, but once you are confident that the car battery metrics have not been meddled with you can always get from LeafSpy [the best data we know of].
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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