Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV
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GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
SageBrush said:
Exactly. Or at least has Tesla-like range. My 2012 Leaf didn't have a QC port. Even if it had the range of a 2018 (150 miles), a QC port would be useless to me. But with a range well over 200 miles, my Bolt suddenly has some QC available. And even that's only because I'm about 200 miles outside of a heavily travelled / well QC'd corridor (the Northeast Corridor). In many parts of the country, even 238 miles isn't enough to make meaningful use of a QC port.
Dave's reply made me think he is unaware that Tesla has its own network, one that is VASTLY more useful and available to their car owners than ChadeMo is, particularly outside of the coasts.
This is ChadeMo for Middle America. The few stations available are concentrated in cities that are too far apart to allow long distance driving, even if one ignores their lousy placement and long charge times. As a practical matter, ChadeMo (and CCS) are no where near a solution for flyover country, even for dedicated EV early adopters.
And here is CCS. As an internal ruler, the blue to Albuquerque is 250 miles
This is ChadeMo for Middle America. The few stations available are concentrated in cities that are too far apart to allow long distance driving, even if one ignores their lousy placement and long charge times. As a practical matter, ChadeMo (and CCS) are no where near a solution for flyover country, even for dedicated EV early adopters.
And here is CCS. As an internal ruler, the blue to Albuquerque is 250 miles
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
Interesting. Honestly, these maps are more than I dreamed we'd have even just a few years ago. And yet it's nowhere near what we need. It will take a long time to really fill in, especially in "flyover country". We really do need cars with longer range than 150 miles in order to bridge the gaps, and that will be so for another half a decade at least.
GRA
Well-known member
OTOH, for non-Tesla owners 2019 should see a huge improvement: https://electrek.co/2018/05/03/electrify-america-map-charging-stations-network/
They plan to have the first X-C route (probably I-80/76/70/15) done by the end of 2019. At least in California they're using Black and Veatch, the same supervising contractor as Tesla.
They plan to have the first X-C route (probably I-80/76/70/15) done by the end of 2019. At least in California they're using Black and Veatch, the same supervising contractor as Tesla.
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
Zythryn said:GetOffYourGas said:
Other than the ones that already exist
Exactly. My point was more that even the 2018 Leaf still doesn't have enough range for a solid US offering. It's still a commuter / errands type of car. The difference between 150 miles (Leaf) and 240 miles (Bolt) is huge in many parts of the country. It often can mean the difference between a usable QC network or not. And that will remain the case for years to come.
paulgipe
Well-known member
GetOffYourGas said:Zythryn said:GetOffYourGas said:
Other than the ones that already exist
Exactly. My point was more that even the 2018 Leaf still doesn't have enough range for a solid US offering. It's still a commuter / errands type of car. The difference between 150 miles (Leaf) and 240 miles (Bolt) is huge in many parts of the country. It often can mean the difference between a usable QC network or not. And that will remain the case for years to come.
Agreed. That's true even for here in California. Saturday we did a 186 mile loop in our Bolt and returned with 20 kWh remaining. We wouldn't have been able to do it with the 18 Leaf without range anxiety. It turns out that there's a Level 2 30 miles west of Bakersfield. We stopped to just to make sure it was working. It was. With the Leaf you would have had to stop for at last an hour or more. As it was we just drove home. There was nothing--and I mean nothing on the other 150 miles--not even a 14-50.
Paul
edatoakrun
Well-known member
Some may recall the long discussion (on this thread, I believe) of how long it would take an Ioniq (with higher efficiency and slightly higher kW initial charge rate) to overtake a Bolt (equipped with ~twice the battery capacity) while on a long trip with multiple DC recharges.
Part one, below, does not give the final answer, but I expect part two will be posted shortly, on Bjorn's channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH3RqJRhNEE
Part one, below, does not give the final answer, but I expect part two will be posted shortly, on Bjorn's channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH3RqJRhNEE
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
GetOffYourGas said:
Well we now have 5 new stations open (maybe 4?) with new ones coming online nearly every week for the next two years and that is just the beginning. So a "must be 250" mile EV is a limited time need. Yeah the buildout on the fringes has been pathetically slow and without VW's missteps we probably would still be wondering what to do.
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
Dave, you conveniently miss the part where Washington State has about the best infrastructure in the country. Your experience doesn't map to others', particularly those living in the middle of the country.
I regularly drive 300+ miles in a trip. I don't mind a single stop, but with a "150 mile" car, I would realistically have to stop twice (unless I drove the battery down to 0, and then waited for it to charge to 100%). In a New York winter, that 150 mile car becomes a <100 mile car, and now I need to stop 3 or 4 times to charge. So for me, 240 miles will always be far superior to 150 miles. Point being, don't try to fit everyone else into your mold.
GRA
Well-known member
A longer range car will always be more convenient than a shorter range one for road trips, but you may well be covered on at least some routes in your area in the not too distant future: https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locationsGetOffYourGas said:
plus the first X-C route.
GRA said:
Yes, of course! How naive it is to imply that a QC is useless for a low range BEV. Without having the QC capability here in SoCal and my need to
visit customers having a round trip of about 120 miles, my Leaf would be useless for business. Typically for round trips greater than 70 miles,
a needed QC lasts for only 10-15 minutes. Each low range BEV, e.g. 24/30kWh Leaf, owner has different needs as one might expect!
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edatoakrun said:
Nice video. The 2nd part is available now. Very interesting how the two different approaches played out in this match up. (Nope, not gonna spoiler it for you - watch the video.)
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
GetOffYourGas said:
What?? WA State fell behind a LONG time ago. My "5 new stations" reference (most in the NE btw) is the Electrify America Network.
We did add ONE QC which is the first by the State in about what?? 5? 6 years? After that, EVGO came in and installed stations at the handful of malls they own in region but those were scattered too far apart but welcomed. We also got a few Walmart and Fred Meyer installs but our network is HIGHLY insufficient and weak not to mention that most of the AV stations don't work with the 2018 LEAF.
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
Lest this conversation get too far off track, let's remember we were talking about "fly-over country". Are you denying that WA State is better covered than the central plains states? WA had an early lead in the game, even over CA. While infrastructure growth may have stagnated, it's a huge stretch to say you have fallen behind. You still live in one of the best states in the nation for DCQC coverage.
You live in the PNW, I live in the Northeast. We are both relatively blessed when it comes to non-Tesla quick charging. But even here in NYS, a 150-mile Leaf would not give me sufficient range. The closest DCQC along my typical path is 140 miles away. Wintertime saps much more than 10 miles of range. You do the math.
paulgipe
Well-known member
Montana has zero DCFC stations.
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
SageBrush said:
I'm amused by your west-to-east perspective. From this side of the country, Kansas comes before Colorado, Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, and Nevada.
I tend to think of the plains states as "fly over" country, and not the mountain states. At least the mountain states have scenery worth looking at!
But to your point, really anytime you get away from the coasts, the CCS and CHAdeMO networks get really thin. I live in New York, but once you get inland, away from the I-95 corridor and the Hudson Valley, there is basically nothing.
jlv
Well-known member
...other than the string of Tesla SCs along I90.paulgipe said:
