arnis
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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Fri May 04, 2018 6:35 am

SageBrush wrote:
IssacZachary wrote:I read somewhere recently that the main VW defeat was to not send unburned fuel to the NOx trap for reducing the NOx. Is this true?? It sounds plausible. I wonder why they can't just use DEF instead.

There are multiple reasons of varying importance
You have heard most of them, but I think one under reported (and the most important) is that the pollution control devices have a short lifetime.


SCR doesn't deteriorate AFAIK. DPF does.
For NOx treatment, either LNT or DEF. Both will last more than DPF, which lasts around 160 000km before it needs maintenance (ash removal).
SCR uses DEF fluid to clean exhaust. Fluid is very cheap but system costs significantly, especially noticeable on cheaper vehicles.
LNT uses diesel to clean exhaust. System is cheap but additional fuel burned is nonsense (very expensive). This is what VW did - reduced fuel consumption. Which, on the other hand, reduces all other pollutants, excluding NOx.
Last edited by arnis on Fri May 04, 2018 6:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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SageBrush
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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Fri May 04, 2018 6:51 am

arnis wrote:SCR doesn't deteriorate AFAIK.

I said break, as in requires repairs under warranty.
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GRA
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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Sun May 20, 2018 4:23 pm

Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:45 pm

Reuters via ABG:
Germany threatens Daimler with $4.4B fine over emissions
750,000 Mercedes vehicles could be affected
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/01/germany-daimler-fine-diesel-emissions/

German Transport Minister Andreas Scheuer has threatened to fine carmaker Daimler 3.75 billion euros ($4.4 billion) over a diesel emissions scandal, Spiegel magazine reported on Friday.

The report comes after Scheuer on Monday questioned Daimler boss Dieter Zetsche in a closed-door meeting over how many Mercedes-Benz vans and cars need to be fixed after a regulator found illegal software in one of its models.

Spiegel, citing no sources, said Scheuer expressed concerns that a total of 750,000 Mercedes vehicles could be affected and that the ministry could impose fines of up to 5,000 euros per car.

A spokesman for the transport ministry said in an email that the carmaker and the transport ministry had agreed to clear up highly complex technical issues related to diesel emissions. . . .

Last month Daimler was ordered by motor vehicle authority KBA to recall Vito vans fitted with 1.6 liter diesel engines because it said they breached emissions rules.

Daimler has said it will appeal against KBA's decision to classify its software as illegal and contest the findings in court if necessary, although it said it was cooperating fully.

Spiegel said there was considerable evidence that diesel engines of the Mercedes C-Class models were also affected and that Daimler representatives would be summoned to the ministry ahead of a planned follow-up meeting of Zetsche and Scheuer later this month.

The report said at least a further 80,000 vehicles might have to be recalled as a result. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DarthPuppy
Posts: 630
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Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:46 pm

GRA wrote:Reuters via ABG:
Germany threatens Daimler with $4.4B fine over emissions
750,000 Mercedes vehicles could be affected
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/01/germany-daimler-fine-diesel-emissions/

there was considerable evidence that diesel engines of the Mercedes C-Class models were also affected ... The report said at least a further 80,000 vehicles might have to be recalled as a result. . . .


Dang I got lucky. Back when they were pitching the clean diesel concept, I actively wanted a diesel C. Fortunately, Mercedes didn't bring that model into the U.S. Disappointed, I almost bought the Jetta TDI. I then found the Leaf. But had the diesel C been available, I would have gone that route.
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GRA
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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:56 pm

Via ABG:
Audi CEO named as suspect in German diesel emissions investigation
Prosecutors search homes of Rupert Stadler and one other board member
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/11/audi-ceo-suspect-german-diesel-emissions/

. . . Almost three years after Volkswagen admitted to falsifying U.S. diesel emissions tests, the Munich public prosecutor's office said it was now probing 20 suspects, and had on Monday searched the apartment of Stadler and one other board member. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 8887
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:25 pm

Reuters via ABG:
VW fined 1 billion euros by Germany for diesel emissions cheating
This on top of the $4.3 billion fine in the U.S.
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/13/vw-fined-1-billion-euros-diesel-cheating/

BERLIN — Volkswagen was fined 1 billion euros ($1.18 billion) over diesel emissions cheating in what amounts to one of the highest ever fines imposed by German authorities against a company, public prosecutors said on Wednesday.

The German fine follows a U.S. plea agreement from January 2017 when VW agreed to pay $4.3 billion to resolve criminal and civil penalties for installing illegal software in diesel engines to cheat strict U.S. anti-pollution tests.

"Following thorough examination, Volkswagen AG accepted the fine and it will not lodge an appeal against it. Volkswagen AG, by doing so, admits its responsibility for the diesel crisis and considers this as a further major step toward the latter being overcome," it said in a statement.

The prosecutor's office in Braunschweig ordered the fine against the carmaker for organizational deficiencies in supervision which failed to prevent "impermissible software functions" from being installed in 10.7 million cars between 2007 and 2015.

"The Prosecutor's Office in Braunschweig ascertained a violation of supervisory duties," the prosecutor's office said in a statement, adding that the fine did not address civil claims or claims by vehicle owners.

The 1 billion fine does however end regulatory offence proceedings against Volkswagen, which the Wolfsburg-based carmaker said it assumed would help to settle further administrative proceedings against VW in Europe. . . .

The new fine was not included in 28.5 billion euros of provisions that VW set aside for the diesel cheating scandal, and would hit earnings, Evercore ISI said. . . .

The fine by Braunschweig comes after prosecutors in Munich on Monday widened an emissions cheating probe into Volkswagen's luxury carmaker Audi to include the brand's Chief Executive Rupert Stadler among the suspects accused of fraud and false advertising.[/quote]
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DarthPuppy
Posts: 630
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Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:57 pm

Unless my math is wrong, this is just over $100 per illegal car they sold. This is really just a slap on the wrist. It doesn't come close to justice.

Also, unless the article is missing some important details, this does nothing to help those who got scammed with these products. VW needs to be held accountable and forced to remove these cars. Sadly, with the economic and political power they wield over there, this will not happen.
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GRA
Posts: 8887
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:37 pm

Via GCR:
Audi CEO arrested in Germany over diesel scandal
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1117271_audi-ceo-arrested-in-germany-over-diesel-scandal

. . . In the latest move on the political chessboard, German authorities arrested the head of VW's luxury division Audi at his home Monday morning according to a Reuters report. German authorities cited concerns that Stadler could obstruct their ongoing investigation into the diesel emissions cheating scandal. A German judge ordered Stadler held in custody to prevent him from obstructing or hindering the diesel investigation, the report said. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DarthPuppy
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:45 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:39 pm

Via above linked GCR:
Stadler, the former chief of staff to VW's powerful former chairman Ferdinand Piech, had been handed the post as head of Audi in an effort to promote the automaker's transition to electric-car production. His arrest is likely to throw those restructuring efforts at VW into turmoil.

So did they just take their wolf and attempt to put sheep's clothing on him? Interesting way to try to protect the guy - give him a post where he will appear to be an environmentalist. And if he does get charged, they can use that distraction as an excuse for poor execution on the electrification program. :roll:
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