I have a Leaf, so now what?

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SageBrush said:
Prius Prime buyers are comparing notes here
https://priuschat.com/threads/2017-prius-prime-official-prices-paid-thread.174763/

If I am reading correctly, prices for the base model ("plus") have been as low as ~ $23k before state and federal tax credits for 2017 close-outs.
I saw a brand new 2017 Advanced online for $24K in NJ. I'll just keep trying to sell the Leaf and get my Bug running in the mean time.
 
So far only a few bites. Are car dealers normally closed on holidays? Anyhow, I had a couple emails and phone calls from dealers for putting the Leaf on KBB's instant cash offer. The emails said around $5,000 for the Leaf, but depending on it's actual condition. So I went ahead and called two of them back and left voice mails and also returned a couple emails. But it's been a week and none of them have got back ahold of me. Maybe because I said I could swing by this coming Monday. And by swing by, I mean tow my Leaf half way across the state since the closest ones that responded were in Colorado Springs and Durango.

Maybe this is a sign I should just keep my Leaf and buy a suitcase generator. :mrgreen:

I'm still trying to find a place around Cimarrón that will allow me to charge. So far nobody's interested. Maybe when spring comes and some of the campgrounds start to open up things will change.
 
Well it has been fun, and I really wish it didn't have to end this way.

Yesterday I sold my Leaf for $7,000 to a used car dealer. I didn't know they were a dealer until I showed up: they called me in response to my ad. I had been trying to sell the Leaf for several months with ads all over, including AutoTrader and Cars.com. I finally got a text from a guy about 220 miles away saying he'd give me $7,000 if I could get the car to him. So at 5:00am yesterday I took a truck and trailer and towed the Leaf over several mountain passes and got it to him. I sure had a hard time up those passes even with that Chevy V8, a lot of times creeping along at 25mph in first gear. Maybe that gooseneck trailer was a bit much. After the paper work and all I got back home around 10:30pm, but with no more Leaf.


The Leaf was great. I really loved it. If we didn't have to now drive 150 miles or more per day I'd still have it. Everyone in the family loved the Leaf. My wife tried to talk me out of selling it just the day before. But we have to go way too far every day for the Leaf to make any sense. Basically we might use it to only go to the store a couple times on the weekend. But I need to concentrate our finances on our needs, and it doesn't make much sense to be driving an 1985 Volkswagen every day just to keep a Leaf for the weekends, or trying to drive the Leaf at 30mph over 65mph highways and steep mountain passes and waiting forever at Level 1 and 2 charging locations just to make it "work" for our needs, although it was fun to do that for me anyhow. I really wished I could have gotten the Leaf 12 years ago, since for I would have had the perfect driving pattern to have used that Leaf for over a decade. But unknown to me, the time I bought the Leaf was bad timing.

I am still trying to sell a 1972 VW Beetle. After that I'll find something to replace the ol' 1985 VW Golf diesel with the cash from the Leaf and the Beetle. I'm considering a Prius, since that seems to be the only car that can compete with the fuel mileage I have with the VW diesel. With such long driving needs I need stellar fuel mileage, or at least low costs per mile. But we'll see. I have some concerns about driving a Prius in my situation, and I also need to sell the Beetle first and then make a decision. Hopefully it won't take too long, it would be nice to have AC again.


Good buy Leaf! You were a great car! :cry:
 
One concern about getting a Prius for your needs: they are terrible hill climbers, at least from Gen III on. It isn't so much that the car can't climb hills; it just does it fairly slowly and with much roaring of the engine. Using Power mode helps, but if you climb lots of big hills, you might want to consider that.
 
LeftieBiker said:
One concern about getting a Prius for your needs: they are terrible hill climbers, at least from Gen III on. It isn't so much that the car can't climb hills; it just does it fairly slowly and with much roaring of the engine. Using Power mode helps, but if you climb lots of big hills, you might want to consider that.
Yes I do climb very steep hills and that is one of my concerns, although one of the lesser ones for this reason: My current car, the 1985 VW diesel, has less than 40 hp at this altitude. I even got pulled over by a cop just a month ago asking if my car was roadworthy because I was going 35mph up a 7% grade. In reality, the Prius will surpass the Golf in this aspect so I'm not that worried about the speed going up hills. I'm more worried about what that would do to a gasoline engine on an automatic type transmission or CVT that I can't control the RPMs on, at least not as well as on the Golf with it's manual transmission. And I'm also concerned with overcharging the Prius battery on long descents. I've heard that it's not good for them.
 
LeftieBiker said:
One concern about getting a Prius for your needs: they are terrible hill climbers, at least from Gen III on. It isn't so much that the car can't climb hills; it just does it fairly slowly and with much roaring of the engine. Using Power mode helps, but if you climb lots of big hills, you might want to consider that.

Yeah that's just not true.

I drive my Gen-2 Prius around the same hills that the OP will be driving. It is our "mountain goat". If you know how to drive, the Prius has all the power you need. I routinely pass larger SUVs and other vehicles that are obviously struggling to make it up the hills, you can hear the engine roaring. Why? Because a transmission sucks. Going up these hills with a standard tranny, you need lots more power than you should because it "can't find the right gear". It is like a symphony of oldschool engineering on these roads with engines ROARING at high rev's then quiet as the vehicle loses speed to start ROARING again, each time the entire thing bucks as the tranny can't apply power nicely and change gears.

Not a worry in the Prius, it always has the right gear. 80-85mph up and down I-70 from Utah to Denver in a Prius is somewhat routine. Even in the snow, it does fine on the hills. I also routinely keep on driving past the idiots in 4wd vehicles that don't know how to drive but bought a big vehicle just making their impending crash worse with inflated confidence.

This past winter there was one day after skiing where some of the switchbacks on HW-24 was a total free for all. It seemed like 90% of the vehicles were spinning out going up which caused them to spin around and bumper car it to the bottom or into the ditch. Waited for a chance, turtled it up the hill without slip around the carnage and kept on going.
 
Agree with 2k1 -- no problem driving the Prius in mountain country, although understanding the car does make for a more pleasant drive. The car regulates the battery SoC, so "overcharging" it is not a concern. On the other hand, poor driving habits that lead to routine battery discharge down to the car allowed limit will over time lead to a shorter battery lifespan. The trick is to rely on the ICE for the entire climb. My advice to you is to buy a Prius with a degraded battery and swap it out for a 3rd party from 2k1. There is a small risk, and a whole lot of upside.

OP: $7k is low but not terrible. My LEAF (with a battery health better than yours) is up for sale in the Durango area (which is a lot more friendly towards *EV) and only one person has been interested, also at $7k. I actually tried to steer her your way once I realized what she was willing to pay. In the meantime it appears like my Prius Prime has found a buyer, so if that pans out I'll happily keep the LEAF for local commuting duties. As you say, the LEAF works well as an about town car and poorly (or not at all) for longer duties. I still find it crazy that you could not arrange charging in Cimarron, but I'm sure you tried.

All the best
 
2k1Toaster said:
I drive my Gen-2 Prius around the same hills that the OP will be driving. It is our "mountain goat". If you know how to drive, the Prius has all the power you need.

It's sure nice to know from other drivers how the cars I'm interested in drive in my area. Some people online suggest that I test drive the cars myself along my usual route. But I don't see asking a dealership if I could borrow the car for the whole day for testing as a reasonable request.

SageBrush said:
My advice to you is to buy a Prius with a degraded battery and swap it out for a 3rd party from 2k1. There is a small risk, and a whole lot of upside.
I'll keep that in mind. I still keep throwing around the idea of a new Prime though. I still see some for around $25,000, which with the tax credits could put it at $15,000. If I can sell the Beetle for around $7,000 too I would just about break even in the end!

SageBrush said:
OP: $7k is low but not terrible. My LEAF (with a battery health better than yours) is up for sale in the Durango area (which is a lot more friendly towards *EV) and only one person has been interested, also at $7k. I actually tried to steer her your way once I realized what she was willing to pay. In the meantime it appears like my Prius Prime has found a buyer, so if that pans out I'll happily keep the LEAF for local commuting duties. As you say, the LEAF works well as an about town car and poorly (or not at all) for longer duties. I still find it crazy that you could not arrange charging in Cimarron, but I'm sure you tried.

All the best

Ya, I bet I could have got more out of it. After the hail storm in the Denver to Greeley area it seems I started getting more calls. The dealer I sold it to told me that he was specifically looking for cars without hail dents. I surprisingly got about 5 more calls on it after I sold it between yesterday and today. Maybe one was that lady you had mentioned.

Ya, I wasn't having any luck in Cimarron. Have you been through there? There's basically a rock shop/gas station, and that's about it. For most of this time the campgrounds have been closed, and then to come to find out they all have 120V outlets anyway.
 
You can find almost all vehicles for rent by the hour/day/week. In the case of a Prius, a Gen-2 will most likely not be rentable because of its age but a dealership should be willing to do a 24hour rental. It's pure profit for them if you don't buy it, sale otherwise. You'd be surprised. Flash the cash, show them you're serious and go for it. Usually there is a mileage limit and all that, but most are very willing to give extended test drives. It is actually the norm for the higher end cars (Lexus/BMW/Merc) where you get a 3-day 100 mile test drive from pretty much all the dealers around here. Once you get used to the creature comforts, you can't go back, so they make a sale. :)

If you wanted to test drive a Gen-3 just for comparison, most rental agencies will have these at unlimited miles available from their "green collection". Might be $60/day if you have no status with them but cheaper than buying a car to find out you don't like it.

Personally I think once you drive a Leaf or other BEV it kind of ruins most other ICE vehicles unless there is something special about them. A HEV with no tranny like the Prius, is about as close as you can get. Of all my vehicles those two get driven the most. I have newer cars, I have more expensive cars, but the Leaf and the Prius are just excellent vehicles.
 
Ok, let me rephrase this: driving a Prius up hills is not as pleasant as driving a Leaf up hills, nor is it as pleasant as driving an old Camry or Volvo up hills. The car will make the climb, but you get to choose between doing it slowly with the car sounding like it's working hard, or more quickly with the ICE sounding like it's at the redline even though it isn't. I suggest you drive a Gen III Prius (a PIP if possible) up some tall, long hills before buying one. I'd suggest avoiding a Gen II Prius because the batteries in them are 'aging out' even if the mileage isn't high. One car you might look into and try driving is the Camry Hybrid, about which I don't know a lot. You might also try crunching numbers on leasing a base Bolt LT, because that car is the one - maybe the ONLY one - you would likely love driving in your terrain.
 
IssacZachary said:
I still keep throwing around the idea of a new Prime though. I still see some for around $25,000, which with the tax credits could put it at $15,000. If I can sell the Beetle for around $7,000 too I would just about break even in the end!
If you can swing that I think it would be an excellent way to go. An Ionic PHEV lists even less, and looks more normal. Worth comparing, and you might want to look at the Niro PHEV as well, which should be priced in the same range as the Prime.
 
Is a 35 year old diesel VW worth anywhere near $7000 ?
Obviously not to me, but I'm curious.
 
SageBrush said:
Is a 35 year old diesel VW worth anywhere near $7000 ?
Obviously not to me, but I'm curious.
I have two VW's. The one I would like to get $5,000-$7,000 for is a 1972 Beetle. It's a bit more collectable than the 1985 diesel. The diesel might be worth $1,000, if that. I'll probably just keep the diesel as a backup or something. These are my only two cars at the moment.
 
GRA said:
IssacZachary said:
I still keep throwing around the idea of a new Prime though. I still see some for around $25,000, which with the tax credits could put it at $15,000. If I can sell the Beetle for around $7,000 too I would just about break even in the end!
If you can swing that I think it would be an excellent way to go. An Ionic PHEV lists even less, and looks more normal. Worth comparing, and you might want to look at the Niro PHEV as well, which should be priced in the same range as the Prime.
Ya but I've never really been into crossovers. I like how the regular Prius and the Prime are both aerodynamic in shape. I'm the kind of guy who would want an Aptera. While most people brag about how fast their car can go or how high off the ground it sits, I brag about how I get 60 mpg in my 35 year old car. When the Leaf worked for me I would brag about how it only cost me $15 per month to "fuel". And even though a used Toyota Yaris or a Honda Fit might calculate out cheaper in total operating costs than a Prius, I would feel bad getting only 45mpg.
 
I sold a 2013 Honda Fit and a 2013 Prius Vagon last year for $10k each. Either would have been really good cars for you. My nostalgic wife remembers the Prius in particular as a great car. I enjoyed driving the Fit more, but I am partial to small cars. They are both REALLY good cars.
 
SageBrush said:
I sold a 2013 Honda Fit and a 2013 Prius Vagon last year for $10k each. Either would have been really good cars for you. My nostalgic wife remembers the Prius in particular as a great car. I enjoyed driving the Fit more, but I am partial to small cars. They are both REALLY good cars.
Thanks! On paper, those would work ok. I may end up driving some 30,000 miles per year. Even if I would get 60mpg in a regular Prius and only 40mpg in a Fit or Toyota Yaris that would mean I'd save about $750 per year or $62 per month in fuel, which would be an amount that could possibly be made up for with lower initial costs, especially when comparing new cars. And of course in reality it might be more like 45mpg vs 55mpg, which would be even less of a difference. But if I could find a cheap Prius and just need to change out the battery, that might be best bang for buck like you said. Although my wife would lean towards a Prius v as well.

But like I said, for me, if I get worse fuel mileage than in my 1985 diesel I'd feel like I'm going backwards. Plus I think I can pull off getting a Prius Prime. And that would also make me feel better about having a permanently installed EVSE on the side of my house; because I'd actually be able to use it. The Prime could be the best of both worlds with the Colorado and federal tax credits. Basically I could get a plug-in hybrid for the price of a small ICE car.

LeftieBiker said:
You might also try crunching numbers on leasing a base<a class="interlinkr" href="http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum" target="_blank"> Bolt <span class="tip">Visit the Chevy Bolt EV</span></a>LT, because that car is the one - maybe the ONLY one - you would likely love driving in your terrain.</span>
Ya, I'd love a long range EV! Maybe I should just keep driving the Golf until I have the money for one. But that's probably a far fetched idea, mainly because I could very well be putting some 30,000 miles a year on the car. That probably would wreak havoc on my bill at the end of the lease. Plus the lease on a Bolt would be some $400 or more per month. That's the most I want to pay total for all car related expenses on average per month.

Basically I have to either pay cash for a vehicle or get really low payments. Then, if it gets 50mpg, that would be about $150 per month in fuel and hopefully $50 or so in insurance leaving me with $200 per month for maintenance and repairs. The Prime could be a little less in fuel since I would use the plug-in capability as much as possible, not to mention there are a lot of places I can charge free at. If I charge for free twice, then my 150 mile route would only be a 100 mile route as far as gasoline goes. As far as paying for the car, the good thing is I have that $7,000 from selling the Leaf that I have dedicated for buying my next car and I will hopefully soon be able to add to that what I sell the 1972 Bug for.
 
The Prime is likely your best bet. Keep in mind though that no non plug-in Prius is going to give you 55-60MPG with your hills, so factor that in. We got 50-55MPG with a Prius II without killer hills. The lifetime average, over 5 years, for our PIP is 70MPG, again in mostly flat driving. That's about 80MPG in Summer and 55-60MPG in Winter.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The Prime is likely your best bet. Keep in mind though that no non plug-in Prius is going to give you 55-60MPG with your hills, so factor that in. We got 50-55MPG with a Prius II without killer hills. The lifetime average, over 5 years, for our PIP is 70MPG, again in mostly flat driving. That's about 80MPG in Summer and 55-60MPG in Winter.
Thanks! Wow! 70mpg to 80mpg is awesome!

Ya, the hills and cold will be killers. But I figure that since the Prime has a battery heater and I can add a block heater the cold shouldn't affect it too much. I also think that the bigger plug-in battery might help by sucking up more energy on the downhill grades. I always loved seeing the SOC go up on the Leaf as I went down hills. The only question is what RPMs and throttle level would be best for fuel efficiency going up hills. I might have to hold it back a bit, but with the cars I drive I'm used to that.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The Prime is likely your best bet. Keep in mind though that no non plug-in Prius is going to give you 55-60MPG with your hills, so factor that in. We got 50-55MPG with a Prius II without killer hills. The lifetime average, over 5 years, for our PIP is 70MPG, again in mostly flat driving. That's about 80MPG in Summer and 55-60MPG in Winter.
I live in Colorado and have no problem getting over 60 mpg in mountain driving in good weather in the Prime in hybrid mode. Most of my use was for 90 mile work commuting and twice monthly 250 drives each way to Albuquerque. Lifetime MPG is is 92 mpg over 15 months. The battery in the Prime in conjunction with overall amazing drivetrain efficiency surprises everybody who does not own the car. I reminded of the first couple years of the Prius back in 2004-5 when people would declare with utmost confidence that no car could ever average 50 mpg.

Bottom line: an efficient driver like me in Colorado in decent weather gets ~ 35 miles per 6.2 - 6.5 kWh metered charge and then about 65 mpg in hybrid mode.
 
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