Nissan issues software update to solve 30 kwh battery issues

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jfr2006 said:
SageBrush said:
jfr2006 said:
On VLBW, Leafspy measured 1.8kWh remaining ;)
Yes, but that includes an unusable fraction.

No, it does not! I have done the experiment previously until i run out of battery. Got the turtle mode when i was with 0.4kWh measured by LeafSpy ;)
It surely includes an unusable fraction, but I am not sure how much. This post from Graffi is from 2014 and is for a 24 kWh LEAF:
On my MY2013 SL I get the following:
LBW = 49 gids
VLBW = 24 gids
Turtle = below 3 volts on the lowest cell-pair
 
SageBrush said:
jfr2006 said:
SageBrush said:
Yes, but that includes an unusable fraction.

No, it does not! I have done the experiment previously until i run out of battery. Got the turtle mode when i was with 0.4kWh measured by LeafSpy ;)
It surely includes an unusable fraction, but I am not sure how much. This post from Graffi is from 2014 and is for a 24 kWh LEAF:
On my MY2013 SL I get the following:
LBW = 49 gids
VLBW = 24 gids
Turtle = below 3 volts on the lowest cell-pair
On the 30kWh turtle hits at about 5 gids
 
jbuntz said:
On the 30kWh turtle hits at about 5 gids
I'm not sure about that. Turtle is a result of the weakest pair, while GIDS is (I think) a pack average. So it *could* be 5 GIDS depending on the load and the pack, but that is more coincidental than anything.
 
rcm4453 said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
jbuntz said:
I missed the cut off by a couple of weeks :(

There was no cut off. The reality is Nissan was getting degraded packs and upon testing, they were well over the 8 bars required for replacement so the people who did get new packs, got them thru a Nissan SW error. not from true degradation.


My battery has still prematurely degraded even after this update. 87% SOH on a two year old car with 28k miles is unacceptable. Lease is up in February so not really a problem for me. Had I purchased it would be a different story. By comparison a 2 year old Tesla with 28k miles would probably have only around 2% - 3% degradation. It baffles me that there are members on this forum that still defend Nissan's crappy batteries!

Because it gets the job done for the lowest possible price to drive gas-free. Including one expected battery replacement under warranty, I would be able to commute 60-miles daily for over 160,000 miles (~9-10 years) for around $20k out of pocket. I'd have to drive my model 3 for ~480,000 miles to get the same cost savings (parts of the car will need expensive replacement parts before I reach that mileage limit though).

But it does make it harder to recommend the leaf to others.
 
SageBrush said:
jbuntz said:
On the 30kWh turtle hits at about 5 gids
I'm not sure about that. Turtle is a result of the weakest pair, while GIDS is (I think) a pack average. So it *could* be 5 GIDS depending on the load and the pack, but that is more coincidental than anything.
Before the update turtle hit at 3.43 and after at 2.56v
 
This would appear to be an attempt to extract more range than they should from the "bottom" of the pack, in an effort to support their claim that the cars aren't really losing huge amounts of capacity. Classy.
 
And yet I *thought* I read a post here stating that the Turtle threshold was unchanged.
I sure hope so, because lowering it would be a *really* bad move on Nissan's part.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
jbuntz said:
OrientExpress said:
Your statement tells me that you still don't understand the root problem that this update resolves.

I was at 8 bars, 50.4 AHr, 63.41% SOH, prior to the update. Now at 11 bars, 66.1 AHr, 83.16% SOH 22k miles. The commuting range has improved from about 75-80 miles to 90 miles from 100% to turtle. I am now seeing 88-92 miles on the GOM after a full charge. LeafSpy says my total charge has increased from 17.8 kWH to 22.9 kWH.

While this is definitely an improvement, I do not feel like the software update solved the root problem of my 30 kWh battery. It seems like it has just postponed my eligibility for a replacement by a year or 2 and I will have to live with what amounts to a 24 kWh battery after I just spent the last year living with a 24 kWh and less battery.

What do you think, did this resolve my battery issues??

Your case is interesting in a few different ways;

*Your reset went immediately to 11 bars. You are the only one I know of that didnt have 12 bars for at least a short period of time

*Your fast charging speed has slowed down. Not a lot of feedback on this yet but a few have stated they saw no change while yours was throttled by a significant amount.

Let me add a second data point then. My sister-in-law's leaf had only 8-bars (bought that way), and when she started the warranty claim, they updated the firmware, and she was at 11-bars:
AHr 63.41
SOH 79.78%
Hx . 54.51%
SOC . 76.2%
37,684 miles, 79 QC's, 1467 L1/L2's

Before the update:
AHr 47.31
SOH 59.52%
Hx . 55.06%
SOC 86.4%
37,294 miles
 
Did the update about two weeks ago (3500 miles) with the following results:

Before - charged to 100%, took reading, then drove to dealer:

Ahrs 73.27 SOH 92.19% Hx 86.09

Reading right after update at dealer, about 80% SOC:

Ahrs 76.98 SOH 96.86% Hx 86.81

Reading today about two weeks after, 100% charge:

Ahrs 77.22 SOH 97.16% Hx 87.39

The GOM now reads about 135 miles on a full charge, back to what it read when the car was new. Dividing Ahrs by SOC% indicates a base of 79.48 Ahrs.
 
I monitor battery capacity on the dash. Since Ahrs is now larger, a given distance will compute less battery usage - the denominator is now larger (ie if I use 10 Ahrs, before this would be 10/73.27 = 13.5%, after 10/77.22 = 12.9%). This is NOT a definitive answer - the real test would be someone who went from 10 bars to 12 after the update and did a range test before and then after. Subjectively I see more range, objectively I have no data to report.
 
jbuntz said:
SageBrush said:
jbuntz said:
On the 30kWh turtle hits at about 5 gids
I'm not sure about that. Turtle is a result of the weakest pair, while GIDS is (I think) a pack average. So it *could* be 5 GIDS depending on the load and the pack, but that is more coincidental than anything.
Before the update turtle hit at 3.43 and after at 2.56v

hmm.... so, after the fw update, turtle more may degrades the pack faster.... :?:
 
I have my software update scheduled for Thursday. Is there any specific Leaf Spy Pro info I should try to capture before/after the update?

I don't want to run my car down to turtle or drive it for 100+ miles to measure the real range but if there is something besides the normal LS info that would be useful, please let me know. I do plan to grab a LS screen shot before and after but otherwise I don't know what would be helpful.
 
goldbrick said:
I have my software update scheduled for Thursday. Is there any specific Leaf Spy Pro info I should try to capture before/after the update?

I don't want to run my car down to turtle or drive it for 100+ miles to measure the real range but if there is something besides the normal LS info that would be useful, please let me know. I do plan to grab a LS screen shot before and after but otherwise I don't know what would be helpful.
Drive fast with AC on max to reach VLB quickly, and then grab a LeafSpy cell histogram of voltages.
 
The A/C doesn't drain the battery much faster, and Max mode (full recirculate) might well be slower than A/C with fresh air open because it's chilled air being re-cooled rather than hot fresh air being chilled...
 
I'm at 28% now and my appointment is tomorrow so I can probably get it down to LBW or perhaps lower before I bring it in. I'm on track to go about 135 miles on this charge (accidentally went to 100% last time...). The dash is showing 4.7 m/kWh which seems low considering the mileage. Or is the efficiency reading reset separately from the trip meters?

I just commute and drive around town so I can't reproduce the exact same route. I try to watch the mileage vs charge and it has been pretty consistent but my SOH is about 94% now so there probably isn't enough gain possible to be noticeable 'by the seat of my pants'.
 
SageBrush said:
Drive fast with AC on max to reach VLB quickly, and then grab a LeafSpy cell histogram of voltages.

On the theory that the BMS will allow the battery to run down to a lower voltage after the update?

That is about the only thing that makes sense to me although I don't claim to be an expert on Li battery technology. I'll try to run the charge level down to single digits and get LS shots along the way. Then repeat after the firmware update.
 
goldbrick said:
I'm at 28% now and my appointment is tomorrow so I can probably get it down to LBW or perhaps lower before I bring it in. I'm on track to go about 135 miles on this charge (accidentally went to 100% last time...). The dash is showing 4.7 m/kWh which seems low considering the mileage. Or is the efficiency reading reset separately from the trip meters?

I just commute and drive around town so I can't reproduce the exact same route. I try to watch the mileage vs charge and it has been pretty consistent but my SOH is about 94% now so there probably isn't enough gain possible to be noticeable 'by the seat of my pants'.

You have to reset the energy economy meter separately. It's under one of the blue menu button energy screens.
 
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