The 40KWH Battery Topic

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DaveinOlyWA said:
TexasLeaf said:
As you may have seen from my thread, "Using speed to control battery temperature" I am trying to figure out if it's possible to control battery temperature so the TMS doesn't restrict current flow during charging. But there two things that I need to know to help me with my quest:

1. At what battery temperature does the TMS restrict CHAdeMO charging current flow?
2. What is the battery temperature rise CHAdeMO charging a cool battery at full amps from 20% to 80% charge?

I need more accurate reading than the Leaf Battery Temperature Gauge provides. I should be able to get the accuracy I need with LeafSpay but I don't have LeafSpy yet and it will probably a few weeks before I get LeafSpy. Can anyone that already has LeafSpy capture this information for us?

1) Roughly the low 90's. The slowdown is tapered based on temps at start of the charge and SOC.

2) This varies a lot but expect temps to be anywhere from mid 100's to the low 120's. In anything temperature, ambient plays a huge part.
Good information. So drivers in hot climates may see their first charge of the day already throttled.
 
SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
TexasLeaf said:
As you may have seen from my thread, "Using speed to control battery temperature" I am trying to figure out if it's possible to control battery temperature so the TMS doesn't restrict current flow during charging. But there two things that I need to know to help me with my quest:

1. At what battery temperature does the TMS restrict CHAdeMO charging current flow?
2. What is the battery temperature rise CHAdeMO charging a cool battery at full amps from 20% to 80% charge?

I need more accurate reading than the Leaf Battery Temperature Gauge provides. I should be able to get the accuracy I need with LeafSpay but I don't have LeafSpy yet and it will probably a few weeks before I get LeafSpy. Can anyone that already has LeafSpy capture this information for us?

1) Roughly the low 90's. The slowdown is tapered based on temps at start of the charge and SOC.

2) This varies a lot but expect temps to be anywhere from mid 100's to the low 120's. In anything temperature, ambient plays a huge part.
Good information. So drivers in hot climates may see their first charge of the day already throttled.

Already verified by Jennifer in Phoenix who is getting about 25 KW on her first charge of the day. Car not garaged and most of her driving (Uber) is done at night.

She routed a A/C duct into the access panel and claims promising results but since this is very recent, I will wait for further reports from her verifying any benefit.
 
TexasLeaf said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
TexasLeaf said:
1. At what battery temperature does the TMS restrict CHAdeMO charging current flow?
2. What is the battery temperature rise CHAdeMO charging a cool battery at full amps from 20% to 80% charge?

1) Roughly the low 90's. The slowdown is tapered based on temps at start of the charge and SOC.
2) This varies a lot but expect temps to be anywhere from mid 100's to the low 120's. In anything temperature, ambient plays a huge part.

I'm sorry but I am very skeptical of your information. I didn't think the current restriction starts until the battery temperature hit 10 bars and 10 bars doesn't even start until around 120 degrees (http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery). Your response to question 2 is meaningless because you have not identified the temperature "rise".

If you have some real data to shall I would be happy to see. If all you have is conjecture and speculation please don't bother.

10 bars? and you doubt what I have to say??
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
10 bars? and you doubt what I have to say??

I guess you didn't read the part about 10 bars starting at 120 degrees and them saying charging restriction starts at 90 degrees.
 
SageBrush said:
Then connect LeafSpy like Dave and post your own.

I don't think Dave checked the battery temperature with LeafSpy. I was just trying to get some help until I do get LeafSpy. But the people posting to this thread seem more interested in submitting critical speculation than helping.
 
TexasLeaf said:
SageBrush said:
Then connect LeafSpy like Dave and post your own.

I don't think Dave checked the battery temperature with LeafSpy. I was just trying to get some help until I do get LeafSpy. But the people posting to this thread seem more interested in submitting critical speculation than helping.

The 2018 does not have temperature bars.

If you want LEAF Spy data until you are sick of it. Read my blog.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
The 2018 does not have temperature bars.

If you want LEAF Spy data until you are sick of it. Read my blog.

As I already discussed in my "Using speed to control battery temperature" thread, the temperature gauge in the 2018 Leaf is not linear but a step gauge broken out into twelve segments or bars or sectors or whatever you want to call them, just like the older Leafs. It just looks like a linear gauge because there are no gaps between the bars.

I found your blog. Your March 26th fast charge test indicated that you were pulling down 110 amps with a battery temp around 110 degrees. That's a lot different than the 90 degrees you mentioned earlier. Thanks for posting all that information, I'll look through it and see how I can apply it to my quest.
 
TexasLeaf said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
The 2018 does not have temperature bars.

If you want LEAF Spy data until you are sick of it. Read my blog.

As I already discussed in my "Using speed to control battery temperature" thread, the temperature gauge in the 2018 Leaf is not linear but a step gauge broken out into twelve segments or bars or sectors or whatever you want to call them, just like the older Leafs. It just looks like a linear gauge because there are no gaps between the bars.

What is the link to your blog?

So the middle of the gauge is the borderline between 6 and 7? Well, your 10 guess is way off.

to the right of the PM link. I have several references to the charge speed ramp down and nearly every entry has some LEAF Spy data. I would start with this one.


http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/03/fast-charge-test-part-two.html

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/04/road-trip-with-altitude.html
 
I just replaced a 2011 with a 2018.

What happened to the 80% charge option?
Is it not necessary because the battery is larger and a portion is set aside in reserve?
 
LeftieBiker said:
Nissan got burned by the EPA in 2013 with a lower average range, so they dropped it, forever apparently, in 2014.
I wouldn't say burned, but as they recommended 80% as the "Long-Life Option", the EPA chose to rate the range as the average of the range at 80% and 100% (or 73, later 75 miles vs. the 84 @100%). Tesla offered you the choice of any 10% you wanted, but didn't say less than 100% was a long-life option. IIRR, the only other car to get caught by this was the RAV4 BEV. So, in order to get the higher EPA range, Nissan dropped the 80% option in either the 2013 or 2014 MY, forget which, and people who want it have been complaining about it ever since. ;)
 
A fine case of splitting hairs if ever I saw one, except I don't see a split hair. The 80% option was dropped in 2014, and not because Nissan had any other reason than getting the overall range estimate back up. They have since passed on the opportunity to offer it again under the guise of a regeneration retainer, a la GM.

I did my second LeafSpy reading today. I'll post the screen snap later, but here are the basic stats:


SOH = 99.25

Hx = 100.77

AH = 114.57

SOC = 75.6% (higher than the dash reading of 73%, IIRC.

The car only lost 0.34% capacity since April 30, which if extrapolated would be ~4% loss per year. I'm not counting on that.
 
Here are the numbers for my 2018 Leaf so far:

Leaf Spy readings April 9, 2018 at 819 km (512 mi)
AHr - 114.944, SOH - 99.57, Hx - 99.37

Leaf Spy readings June 3, 2018 at 3,831 km (2,394 mi)
AHr - 114.505, SOH - 99.19, Hx - 111.58

Assuming linear degradation over time (not likely), I could expect to lose about 2.4% SOH annually. Based on driving 20,000 km (12,500 mi)/year, the degradation over distance works out to about the same number.

For reference, I live in a relatively cool Canadian climate. The car is almost always parked in a garage with an ambient temperature range of 0-24 C (32-75 F). There are no rapid chargers within hundreds of miles so all charging is L2, usually between 20 and 80%, with a couple charges a week to 100% then driving immediately after.
 
Mine is being babied as well. I have a cool garage that I use when it gets really hot, only QC with a cool pack, and don't charge to 100%, although I will when I need the range. I don't drive much, either.
 
So my battery health stats have taken an interesting turn. Since new, the SOH has been decreasing at a regular and expected pace of about 0.01% per day. Over the last 2 days (84 km driven) the SOH dropped 1.15% from 98.84% to 97.69%. I understand from reading other posts that it's quite normal for SOH to bounce around on older models but that hasn't been my experience with the 2018. I also understand stressing over a percentage point or two is overkill but I am curious about the sudden change. There hasn't been any significant change in driving style or charging habits and the ambient temperature has been a typical 20-30C. The only difference on the day the drop started is I returned home with 19% on the GOM - the lowest SOC the battery has been since the first drive home. I guess we'll see what the next few days brings.
 
I haven't done my July measurement yet. I've succeeded quite well in keeping the pack cool with my cooled garage and doing QCs only with the pack cool or lukewarm (never over 55% as I read the temp gauge) so it will be interesting to see if my SOH is dropping less, or about the same as others'.
 
So went on a trip. Parked car in open parking from July 6th to July 17th (day after end of multiple days in 90's) and lost capacity in chunks over 2 days with light driving, one minor QC.

Then went on 2 day, 700 mile, 13 QC odyssey and lost .04 Today's stats in my sig line. Really weird.

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/07/storing-my-2018-leaf.html
 
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