cwerdna
Posts: 8402
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Charge a little each day, or longer charges every few days?

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:46 pm

^^^
I don't care about the percentages in Leaf Spy. What's the denominator?

IIRC, LBW sounds at about 49 gid and VLBW at about 24 gid on 24 kWh Leafs.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

be236
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:13 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2018
Leaf Number: 309258
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Charge a little each day, or longer charges every few days?

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:23 pm

What are the various "low battery indicators?"

Let me list them and you guys can correct me. I'm on Nissan 2017.

On the main cluster display:

1. "low battery warning."
2. "three dashes where the GOM is." (what is the last GOM miles number before it goes to dashes?)
3. "very low battery warning."
4. "turtle icon mode"

-Andrew
Nissan LEAF 2017 S.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9824
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Charge a little each day, or longer charges every few days?

Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:47 pm

Silverfish wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote: This is a good strategy. However, you shouldn't be getting any kind of "low battery warning" at 30%, unless you have a severely degraded battery. More like 18-20%.


In the two months I've had the car, I always get a low battery warning at 16-17 miles on the guess-o-meter, which registers as between 29% and 32% in LeafSpy. I did wonder about that.

How would I know if I had a severely degraded battery? The range is pretty consistent at about 70-75 miles on the GoM at 100% charge, and 55-60 miles at 80% charge, depending on how much freeway driving I've been doing. On 100% charge, I can generally drive 50-55 miles before hitting the low battery warning. On an 80% charge, it's about 30-35.

It's a 2013 SV with about 53,700 miles and 11 bars. SOH is hovering between 76% and 77%, so I'm surprised it's not yet at 10 bars. Do all those numbers not add up right? Maybe there's a way to reset the % at which the LBW sounds, and the previous owner did? I'd be happy to drive it down to 20%, just been nervous because of the warning.

Thanks.


The Low Battery warning does come at higher and higher percentages as the battery loses capacity, so a pack nearing 9 bars might show it at about 30%. I would define ~9 bars as somewhere between "substantially degraded" and "severely degraded." How many miles of remaining range the Guess 'O Meter gives depends on several variables, so while it might be consistent for you, it doesn't make for an apples to apples comparison with other Leafs.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Silverfish
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:32 am
Delivery Date: 21 Jun 2018

Re: Charge a little each day, or longer charges every few days?

Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:11 pm

Thanks, folks.

cwerdna wrote:^^^
I don't care about the percentages in Leaf Spy. What's the denominator?

IIRC, LBW sounds at about 49 gid and VLBW at about 24 gid on 24 kWh Leafs.


I'm not sure which denominator you mean.

Some stats on a time I hit LBW a couple of weeks ago:

GIDs: 47 (there's also a 16.7% value that might correlate with GIDs)
SOC: 28.9%
3.6 kWh remaining
AHr: 50.69
SOH: 77.5
HX: 70.33
GoM: 15

Does that answer your question? I'm not really sure of the difference between GIDs and SOC; I've mostly been tracking SOC. Should I track GIDs too?

I've only ever hit LBW, never VLBW or turtle mode. I generally hit LBW just a couple of miles from home, partially because I'm rarely more than a couple of miles from home. :)

ETA: There's also a DTE value for these LBW readings that looks like it's at about 13%.

cwerdna
Posts: 8402
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Charge a little each day, or longer charges every few days?

Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:42 pm

Silverfish wrote:Thanks, folks.

cwerdna wrote:^^^
I don't care about the percentages in Leaf Spy. What's the denominator?

IIRC, LBW sounds at about 49 gid and VLBW at about 24 gid on 24 kWh Leafs.


I'm not sure which denominator you mean.

I don't mean to insult your intelligence but let's take a step back:
numerator / denominator = some result that you can convert to a % if you multiply by 100
49 / 100 = 0.49 = 49%

If see SOC % of 28.9% and in an earlier post, you said "which registers as between 29% and 32% in LeafSpy", what is the numerator and what is the denominator to arrive at this? Of what use is this %?

You said "GIDs: 47 (there's also a 16.7% value that might correlate with GIDs)". Why would I care about 16.7%? What's the numerator and denominator here? Do you see why I don't care? I'd rather just look at the actual gid value.

We already have at least 3 percentages that vary with the state of the charge of the battery: SOC % in Leaf Spy, gid % in Leaf Spy and the dash display's % SoC (which was developed by Nissan independently of Leaf Spy). I only pay attention to the dash display's % SoC and raw gid number. The other two percentages I don't care about.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Charge a little each day, or longer charges every few days?

Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:15 am

Regarding VLB warning at a LeafSpy reported SoC of 30%:

LeafSpy uses a 0-100% scale that includes the reserved (unusable) capacities at the top and bottom of the battery. I don't know exactly how much is at the bottom but if it is ~ 1 kWh, that is equal to ~ 4.5% of a new battery and about 3 Ahr. The LEAF uses a SoC scale from 0 - 100% that ignores the unusable buffers at the top and bottom of the battery.

There is about 11 Ahr usable at VLB
LeafSpy measures 14 Ahr remaining by including the bottom buffer

OP's battery has about 50 Ahr usable, so at VLB LeafSpy measures a SoC of (11+3)/(50+3) = 26.4%
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9824
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Charge a little each day, or longer charges every few days?

Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:59 am

He's talking about the Low Battery Warning, not the Very Low Battery Warning, which he has never reached.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Charge a little each day, or longer charges every few days?

Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:40 am

My mistake, I meant LBW
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Silverfish
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:32 am
Delivery Date: 21 Jun 2018

Re: Charge a little each day, or longer charges every few days?

Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:53 am

cwerdna wrote:
Silverfish wrote:Thanks, folks.

cwerdna wrote:^^^
I don't care about the percentages in Leaf Spy. What's the denominator?

IIRC, LBW sounds at about 49 gid and VLBW at about 24 gid on 24 kWh Leafs.


I'm not sure which denominator you mean.

I don't mean to insult your intelligence but let's take a step back:
numerator / denominator = some result that you can convert to a % if you multiply by 100
49 / 100 = 0.49 = 49%

If see SOC % of 28.9% and in an earlier post, you said "which registers as between 29% and 32% in LeafSpy", what is the numerator and what is the denominator to arrive at this? Of what use is this %?

You said "GIDs: 47 (there's also a 16.7% value that might correlate with GIDs)". Why would I care about 16.7%? What's the numerator and denominator here? Do you see why I don't care? I'd rather just look at the actual gid value.

We already have at least 3 percentages that vary with the state of the charge of the battery: SOC % in Leaf Spy, gid % in Leaf Spy and the dash display's % SoC (which was developed by Nissan independently of Leaf Spy). I only pay attention to the dash display's % SoC and raw gid number. The other two percentages I don't care about.


I don't know the numbers that the Leaf or LeafSpy uses to arrive at its percentages, which is why I said I didn't know which denominator you meant. All I see are the numbers in the LeafSpy display pages; most of it is Greek to me. Honestly I'm not sure what use the GID value is either, or how it's used in calculating any of the percentages. I was just providing the data I saw, hoping that that info contained the answer to your question.

So what does the GID number mean?

jim0266
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:14 am
Delivery Date: 17 Mar 2017
Leaf Number: 330446
Location: Akron, Oh

Re: Charge a little each day, or longer charges every few days?

Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:12 pm

See my post about living at a low SOC and pulse driving to best protect your battery:

http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26229

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