60 kWh LEAF Introduction Placed on HOLD

LeftieBiker said:

What have I written that is "nothing but jaded opinion"...?

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Well, what do you call it?

LeftieBiker said:

Oh, well, now Nissan won't spoil the public perception of 60kwh batteries with TMS by producing one that degrades rapidly.

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Dooglas said:

LeftieBiker said:

What have I written that is "nothing but jaded opinion"...?

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Well, what do you call it?

LeftieBiker said:

Oh, well, now Nissan won't spoil the public perception of 60kwh batteries with TMS by producing one that degrades rapidly.

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It's an educated guess based on Nissan's history of producing batteries that degrade rapidly. If you don't drive a Gen I Leaf made between 4/2013 and the end of 2015, you have a Leaf with a pack that degrades rapidly. Nissan has stubbornly stuck to battery chemistries that don't age well, and just putting a TMS on one of those may not save it from abnormal degradation for an EV with TMS.

Dooglas said:

LeftieBiker said:

What have I written that is "nothing but jaded opinion"...?

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Well, what do you call it?

LeftieBiker said:

Oh, well, now Nissan won't spoil the public perception of 60kwh batteries with TMS by producing one that degrades rapidly.

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Dooglas: You live in a mild climate and you're too new here to MNL to have seen the pre-4/2013 built Leaf highe temperature degradation fiasco and may not have known about Nissan's battery degradation claims (e.g. we don't need thermal management and that on average, there'd be 70 to 80% remaining capacity after 10 years). If you lived in a hotter climate with a pre-4/2013 built Leaf an followed Nissan's claims you'd know what I'm talking about.

Mark Perry, who was in the video that I pointed to and had been one of the primary voices of Nissan on Leaf suddenly "retired" from Nissan when I'd driven down to Santa Monica, CA for Alt Car Expo in late Sept 2012. Either mwalsh or boomer23 told me the surprising news.

I had to give powersurge a lesson after he posted some ridiculous assertions.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=536997#p536997
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=508929#p508929 to which I responded with http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24433&start=220

I loaned equipment to surfingslovak here who flew to Phoenix to help drive in that range test conducted by TonyWilliams in Sept 2012. We met at Turbo3's house where (IIRC) Turbo3, supplied some gid meters in the form of WattsLeft (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=8527). IIRC, we went for a ride in Turbo3's Leaf so we could see his meter in operation.

cwerdna said:

Dooglas: You live in a mild climate and you're too new here to MNL to have seen the pre-4/2013 built Leaf high temperature degradation fiasco and may not have known about Nissan's battery degradation claims (e.g. we don't need thermal management and that on average, there'd be 70 to 80% remaining capacity after 10 years). If you lived in a hotter climate with a pre-4/2013 built Leaf an followed Nissan's claims you'd know what I'm talking about.

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I have owned and driven a Leaf for going on 6 years now (first a '13 and then a '16). I have followed MyLeaf during that whole period. I suspect that means I have as much or more experience as a Leaf owner than most. If you or LeftieBiker wants to make the point that post 4/13 Leaf vehicles are superior to pre 4/13 - fine, make that point and I'll likely agree with you. If you want to make the point that Nissan battery packs have degraded more rapidly in high temperature environments than in temperate climates - fine, make that point and I'll likely agree with you again. That was not what I was objecting to, and I presume you know that (as does Leftie with his crystal ball about how possible future larger capacity battery packs w/TMS would perform).

Nissan & Infiniti Both Expected To Reveal Next-Gen EVs In Detroit
https://insideevs.com/nissan-infiniti-expected-reveal-next-gen-evs/

As Autoblog recently reported, Nissan and Infiniti chief designer has teased that both brands will come forth with electric vehicle debuts at the 2019 North American International Auto Show. The show will take place in Detroit starting January 12. Apparently, theses new vehicles will expand upon the new electric architecture that was previously shown at last year’s show via the Infiniti Q Inspiration concept.

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Hmmm... this could be another window of opportunity, or just another concept which doesn't ship.

The 60kWh version will start hitting dealers in California by the end of march, early April. Supply will be constrained at first mainly because of the ramping of the new battery by the suppliers. Don't expect any discounts, but do expect high lease costs on this vehicle.

So what vehicle got put on hold? The NISMO Leaf...?

No LEAF was put on hold, the announcement of the 60kW version was postponed from being announced globally this past Wednesday to a later date that will probably be the 1st of January to coincide with the Detroit Auto Show. Shipments to dealers are still slated to begin the last part of CY19 Q1 starting in California.

OrientExpress said:

The 60kWh version will start hitting dealers in California by the end of march, early April. Supply will be constrained at first mainly because of the ramping of the new battery by the suppliers. Don't expect any discounts, but do expect high lease costs on this vehicle.

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They won't need many as sales should be slow particularly with a high lease since that was their selling point. My guess is discounts will follow after the die hard Nissan people get theirs. They are lucky they still have the tax credits.

Nissan is quite content with their current pricing strategy. One of their issues is that they are battery supply constrained world-wide, and are putting more emphasis on sales in Europe and Asia where their gross margins are higher and cars sell for list with no haggling. They are selling all the cars they make and don't see any gain in discounting.

**Disclaimer**

I only read the Topic Headlines and filled in the rest... I am betting I was not too far off.

Realize at this point the ONLY delay is the intro of the new eLEAF, not the actual production (at least for now)

This is nothing but a thinly disguised ploy to keep Ghosn in the headlines a bit longer.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/12/beyond-carlos-ghosn-and-andy-palmer-was.html

Dave, no offense, but your hypothesis is pretty far off.

The reasoning about the delay is the exact opposite of trying to ride the coattails of the Ghosn scandal, if the announcement would have gone on as planned last Wednesday, all of its air sucked out because of the scandal. They wanted to talk about their EV plans, (which are solid) and not what the scandal means to their commitment to BEVs (which is also solid.)

The global ZEB group is going to let things cool down and wait until January. Every Nissan person I have talked to in the last week, were blindsided by what has happened, but are all business as usual.

OrientExpress said:

Dave, no offense, but your hypothesis is pretty far off.

The reasoning about the delay is the exact opposite of trying to ride the coattails of the Ghosn scandal, if the announcement would have gone on as planned last Wednesday, all of its air sucked out because of the scandal. They wanted to talk about their EV plans, (which are solid) and not what the scandal means to their commitment to BEVs (which is also solid.)

The global ZEB group is going to let things cool down and wait until January. Every Nissan person I have talked to in the last week, were blindsided by what has happened, but are all business as usual.

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IOW, Nissan has spent too much money to back out now. Yeah, well that is obvious.

So guessing you don't buy into the ideology of the best way to lessen the impact of bad news is good news?

For this situation the 60Kw LEAF is totally irrelevant.

This situation has escalated that French President Macron and Japanese Prime Minister Sinzo are hashing this out.

OrientExpress said:

Nissan is quite content with their current pricing strategy. One of their issues is that they are battery supply constrained world-wide, and are putting more emphasis on sales in Europe and Asia where their gross margins are higher and cars sell for list with no haggling. They are selling all the cars they make and don't see any gain in discounting.

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I meant the new cars that have yet to come out. Also they are still relying heavily on credits.

I thought the announcement of a delay curious. As Nissan is close to their tax credit phase out, too long of a delay will result in this model not qualifying for the full tax credit. This is the same issue Tesla is facing, but they are selling Model 3s like crazy.

LKK said:

I thought the announcement of a delay curious. As Nissan is close to their tax credit phase out, too long of a delay will result in this model not qualifying for the full tax credit. This is the same issue Tesla is facing, but they are selling Model 3s like crazy.

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A Tesla is not as price sensitive as a LEAF. IMO the LEAF is very reliant on credits.

OrientExpress said:

The 60kWh version will start hitting dealers in California by the end of march, early April. Supply will be constrained at first mainly because of the ramping of the new battery by the suppliers. Don't expect any discounts, but do expect high lease costs on this vehicle.

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How do you know this to be true? We know from press reports that the 60kwh version has been postponed. How do you know it starts up end of March/April ?

Baltneu said:

OrientExpress said:

The 60kWh version will start hitting dealers in California by the end of march, early April. Supply will be constrained at first mainly because of the ramping of the new battery by the suppliers. Don't expect any discounts, but do expect high lease costs on this vehicle.

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How do you know this to be true? We know from press reports that the 60kwh version has been postponed. How do you know it starts up end of March/April ?

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The announcement has been postponed.

I doubt if production planning has changed the starting date: it is just too expensive to delay unless there is some reason why it can't be done.

LKK said:

I thought the announcement of a delay curious. As Nissan is close to their tax credit phase out, too long of a delay will result in this model not qualifying for the full tax credit.

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It does not work that way