DarthPuppy
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Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: Reddit: Nissan Leaf e+ revealed with longer range at 2019 CES

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:28 pm

Yikes! 5.5% in 6 months without abuse is rather disconcerting.
'13 Leaf SL
'18 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Reddit: Nissan Leaf e+ revealed with longer range at 2019 CES

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:45 pm

DarthPuppy wrote:Yikes! 5.5% in 6 months without abuse is rather disconcerting.


I kept the car in my garage last Summer, with A/C keeping it below 78F, too. The first year is supposed to see higher loss than subsequent years, but I'm not overly optimistic.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

mxp
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Location: Fremont, CA

Re: Reddit: Nissan Leaf e+ revealed with longer range at 2019 CES

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:28 am

Do you know how long it will take to fully charge up the new battery?
Say, if using the old Blink L2 home chargers. (I think you can set the unit's max amps to 30A)

arnis wrote:Bigger pack means driving has lower C-rate (less heat generation when travelling at highway speed).
50% bigger pack with just ~30% faster charging means less heat buildup while charging due to lower C-rate.
Even if Nissan didn't have active cooling, this version will have less rapidgate.

I actually consider KISS might work out one day very well, not just in Canada :geek:

Oilpan4
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Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Reddit: Nissan Leaf e+ revealed with longer range at 2019 CES

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:41 am

All we need to know is will the modules fit in a gen 1 battery?
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

arnis
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Leaf Number: 015896
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Re: Reddit: Nissan Leaf e+ revealed with longer range at 2019 CES

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:03 pm

Fully depleted battery (unrealistic scenario) to 98% charged is almost 60kWh,
230V*30A=6,9kW/h. Expect 8½ hours.

No. new modules will not fit to even 40kWh Leaf. They are different, vehicle is 5mm higher (likely pack is 5mm thicker).
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

Leaf15
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Reddit: Nissan Leaf e+ revealed with longer range at 2019 CES

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:39 pm

arnis wrote:They are different, vehicle is 5mm higher (likely pack is 5mm thicker).

The 5mm may be used for active air cooling gap between battery and floor. The battery seems to be sealed though, so it may be the same size actually. But we have no info on it yet.
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ionic Limited

Leaf15
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Re: Reddit: Nissan Leaf e+ revealed with longer range at 2019 CES

Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:18 am

Lets review multiple days on single charge usage pattern scenario:

I have colleague at work who bought Model 3 AWD recently. Although he bought it to get long range battery, but later he realized: there is a catch with active BMS - it eats itself up. Here is the scenario where it becomes very uncomfortable. He bought it for long trip he makes once a month hoping he could do round trip on fully charged battery. 310 should cover it plenty, except the little detail about trip: he would stay there for a few days. Ops, the car is loosing on average 20 miles a night to keep battery worm, so when it is time to head home - he could not make it as 40-50 miles are gone, combine it with low temp capacity loss and heater (20% on 300 is 60 miles, but on 24kW Leaf capacity lost is only 15 miles as battery is small). - I could not confirm it, but my efficiency in winter is only slightly lower 4.6(summer) vs 4.2 m/kWh(winter) only < 10 miles reduction, yet both are above Leaf rated average. Heat pump certainly helps: 6 kWh (electric heater) vs. 1.5 kW (heat pump).

It gets as bad in commute scenario. Lets say you commute 20 miles a day. So you would think you can make 15 days of commute on full battery, but in reality you could barely make 7 days as every night it will loose 20 miles, so you daily commute becomes 40 miles. Yet on puny 24kW Leaf I could make 4 days. Just think what it does to efficiency? Well it is only half of rated 125 empg and comparable to good hybrids, lol. Even if active BMS EV is charged every day - it is still wasting grid energy on BMS, one way or another you are getting less efficiency, period.

Considering multiple days on single charge scenario - we have 3 x battery size outperforming small battery by lousy 70%. So on Leaf you get almost 100% of the range used for driving, while on active management BMS EV you get barely 50% of the range in this scenario.

Now, we may understand why Nissan is so adamant about active battery temperature management in their EV.

Sometime in the future, the real EV would not waste its energy on keeping itself "alive" without any negative consequences. Not there yet, but Leaf in mild climate gets us closer to the "ideal EV".

So it looks like in multiple days on single charge scenario for 20 miles commute even 40 KWh Leaf with heat pump will beat the crap out of longest range Tesla Model 3 (not even talking about MR or SR variants), 62kWh would be the efficiency king for quite some time even considering possible battery degradation for some folks.

So do your math for your usage scenario, weather condition (temperature specifically including hottest in the summer - day and lowest in winter - night) and where you keep your car during day/night before making purchase decision on EV. The usage pattern for commute I have presented is matched with my requirements and conditions, yours would be different, so is the outcome.
Last edited by Leaf15 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:30 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ionic Limited

EatsShootsandLeafs
Posts: 595
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Re: Reddit: Nissan Leaf e+ revealed with longer range at 2019 CES

Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:17 am

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/09/nissan- ... oost-.html

226 miles and 217 HP.

And still $7500 tax credit.

Leaf is once again interesting. Some substantial number bumps here. Would kill if it were AWD but it’s going to be a really quick car now.

Basically a Bolt but doesn’t look quite as awful and it isn’t a Chevy.

SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Location: Colorado

Re: Reddit: Nissan Leaf e+ revealed with longer range at 2019 CES

Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:23 am

Leaf15 wrote:Ops, the car is loosing on average 20 miles a night to keep battery worm,

BS
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Leaf15
Posts: 140
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Delivery Date: 09 Jun 2018
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Reddit: Nissan Leaf e+ revealed with longer range at 2019 CES

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:45 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Leaf15 wrote:Ops, the car is loosing on average 20 miles a night to keep battery worm,

BS

May be in Colorado it is BS, not in PA (we have urban mountain areas as well where temp it 10-15F lower than average). It also depends if car is kept in garage or outside even in the same area(as it makes big deviations in temperatures). I take it you are not an authority for North East while living at place where "Winters are mild with an average daily high temperature of 45 degrees Fahrenheit and days reaching 60 degrees are not uncommon". We have 20F during day here lately. Think what happens during night? Low single digits F it is.
Besides, colleague had no reason to exaggerate or bad mouth his brand new car. BTW, he also mentioned it was ~ 15 miles in the late November when it was 45F day average (not night). I am kind of feeling guilty for suggesting him Model 3 LR, because it seems to fit his needs. But there is nothing else with longer range, so he would have to figure out how to do those trips. I overlooked parasitic BMS drain as I never experienced it on my Leaf; and thankfully, I never will.
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ionic Limited

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