Leafnewbie2019
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Possible to upgrade a 2016 Nissan Leaf batterie with a 40 kWh lithium-ion battery?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:06 pm

Just curious,

Is it possible to upgrade a 2016 leaf with a 40 kWh lithium-ion battery? The ones that are used in the 2019 model?

When I say possible I mean can a Nissan Dealer do the upgrade (not some back alley hacker).

cwerdna
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Re: Possible to upgrade a 2016 Nissan Leaf batterie with a 40 kWh lithium-ion battery?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:24 pm

Given that Nissan hasn't even provided an upgrade path for 24 kWh Leafs to 30 kWh (or any other capacity), I find it pretty unlikely they'll provide what you ask.

Side note: You are aware of the current pricing of 24 kWh replacement batteries, right? Skip to the end of viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25882 to see if there are more current details.

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alozzy
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Re: Possible to upgrade a 2016 Nissan Leaf batterie with a 40 kWh lithium-ion battery?

Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:42 am

This video provides some insights...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQAcZ_unz_M
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Oilpan4
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Re: Possible to upgrade a 2016 Nissan Leaf batterie with a 40 kWh lithium-ion battery?

Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:58 am

If you are going to do it don't waste your time with the 30kwh battery go straight to 40kwh.

To put a 40kwh in a 2016 should require gutting the 2016 battery, repack with 40kwh cells and battery reset.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
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arnis
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Re: Possible to upgrade a 2016 Nissan Leaf batterie with a 40 kWh lithium-ion battery?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:22 am

It can be done but it requires coding that can be done by dealers only. And they won't do it in US anyway.
Ukrainians have done it.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

Oilpan4
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Re: Possible to upgrade a 2016 Nissan Leaf batterie with a 40 kWh lithium-ion battery?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:10 am

What it appears the guys in Ukraine did was take all the electronics off a 40kwh battery and then rewire it with all the stuff that was inside the 24kwh battery, then take it to the dealer and do a battery reset on it.
So you end up with a 40kwh battery that thinks it's a 24kwh battery. All the milestones work off voltage and the 24kwh and 40kwh battery have the same chemistry so all the milestones, everything inbetween full charge charg to turtle works the same. The car will drive a lot further nearly 150 miles before going into turtle mode from a full charge.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

leeoftheleaf4
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Re: Possible to upgrade a 2016 Nissan Leaf batterie with a 40 kWh lithium-ion battery?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:18 pm

It appears that the Ukrainians also did something to the VCM under the glove compartment to make the computer read the battery properly.

He explains the difference between the VCMs for the model years. They even appear to have different plugs.
https://youtu.be/u6tDOHXxukY?t=145

Without replacing the VCM, the battery meter on he dash flashes random numbers.
https://youtu.be/GtGOZvpa6Ks?t=620

This is all I can tell without understanding the language. Can anyone here translate the Russian?

Lothsahn
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Re: Possible to upgrade a 2016 Nissan Leaf batterie with a 40 kWh lithium-ion battery?

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:11 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:What it appears the guys in Ukraine did was take all the electronics off a 40kwh battery and then rewire it with all the stuff that was inside the 24kwh battery, then take it to the dealer and do a battery reset on it.
So you end up with a 40kwh battery that thinks it's a 24kwh battery. All the milestones work off voltage and the 24kwh and 40kwh battery have the same chemistry so all the milestones, everything inbetween full charge charg to turtle works the same. The car will drive a lot further nearly 150 miles before going into turtle mode from a full charge.


It's not clear what you mean by "all the electronics off a 40kWh battery", but the chemistry is not the same between 24 and 40kWh. I have heard, but cannot confirm, that the chemistry is the same between 30 and 40 kWh.

The voltage curves between 24 and 30/40 kWh are definitely different, such that if you use 30 kWh cells in a 24 kWh car, the car will be at LBW nearly half the time. IFIRC, you'll have 50+ miles between VLBW and turtle.
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Oilpan4
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Re: Possible to upgrade a 2016 Nissan Leaf batterie with a 40 kWh lithium-ion battery?

Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:52 am

Most of us don't speak Ukrainian so we are kind of guessing what they are doing and I never said to put a 30kwh cells in a 24KwH case as the first choice.
It the easiest way to do that upgrade appears to be:
Hopefully you have a 2013-2015 car...
And you can get a 30kwh battery plus vcm out of the same car, then put them in your 24kwh car.
I think there are battery pack wiring differences on non battery heater equipped 2011 and 2012 cars that still have their original battery compared to a 2013-up car.
My 2011 came with the cold weather package and had its battery replaced in 2014. Seems like 2011 and 2012 cold weather package and/or cars that had their battery replaced after 2013 should be the same as 2013-2015 24kwh cars but I'm just not 100% sure.
Then the wild card is the 24kwh 2016 sport cars.
But then vcm on the 2011-2012 compared 2013-up cars may be different.
With out perfecting the swaps we may have to live with annoyances like a 50 or more mile gap between low battery warning and turtle. Unless you are willing to swap everything from the newer car into your old one.
The devil is in the details.

In the next few years we will probably be seeing a lot more swap attempts as the number of early leafs become in desperate need of a battery, the supply of newer wrecked or broken down cars with a good battery becomes larger and enthusiasts with limited funds all come together.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
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arnis
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Re: Possible to upgrade a 2016 Nissan Leaf batterie with a 40 kWh lithium-ion battery?

Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:12 am

VCM is different and can't be retrofitted to older vehicle (40kWh to 30kWh/24kWh).
They speak russian actually :D

Shortly, doing this procedure isn't worth the whole game.
Gen1 Leaf looks much worse than the new one.
It doesn't make any sense to put 40kWh battery to any older Leaf.
The only reason Ukrainians did that is that they got totalled Gen2 and had
an old Leaf with near-dead battery.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

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