Owners' comparison Tesla Model 3 vs NIssan Leaf

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GerryAZ said:
Since this thread is a comparison between Tesla Model 3 and LEAF, I have a question that was never answered in another thread: How much charge would be lost if I parked a Model 3 at the airport or my office for 3 weeks in Phoenix in June (day time temperatures of 105 to 120 F) without being plugged in. My Leaf has virtually the same SOC (state of charge) when I return as when I park and it keeps the 12-volt battery charged so it is always ready to drive home.
Click to expand...

Thank you for asking this. I have had mixed answers on this sceenario. We often spend 3 months a year over seas so the leaf sits in the garage for 3 or 4 months. It has almost the same charge as we when we left. Curious how the model 3 would be.

The other hold back for us is the model 3 (unlike the S or X) can only be charged by a private proprietary fast charging system. Until a Chademo or CCS adapter is available we would probably not buy a Tesla Model 3.

The Leaf SL EPlus is looking like a good fit for us. We’ll be replacing our beloved smart ED with it. Haven’t ruled out a model 3 yet but Chademo or CCS and a heated steering wheel are a must.
 
webeleafowners said:
The other hold back for us is the model 3 (unlike the S or X) can only be charged by a private proprietary fast charging system. Until a Chademo or CCS adapter is available we would probably not buy a Tesla Model 3.
Click to expand...

To be fair, there are far more Tesla SC's in the country (both in number of locations, as well as individual stations within each one) than CHAdeMO or CCS stations. Unless you are in an oddball situation where there's a CHAdeMO/CCS station within driving distance, but not a Tesla SC, it's really not necessary.
 
RonDawg said:
webeleafowners said:
The other hold back for us is the model 3 (unlike the S or X) can only be charged by a private proprietary fast charging system. Until a Chademo or CCS adapter is available we would probably not buy a Tesla Model 3.
Click to expand...

To be fair, there are far more Tesla SC's in the country (both in number of locations, as well as individual stations within each one) than CHAdeMO or CCS stations. Unless you are in an oddball situation where there's a CHAdeMO/CCS station within driving distance, but not a Tesla SC, it's really not necessary.
Click to expand...

Good morning. I think it depends where you are. We are in the province of BC. There are 12 Supercharger locations. There are however already over 70 CCS/Chademo locations and 55 under construction. The goverment is now in 3rd phase of their infrastructure project bringing CCS/Chademo coverage on routes north and over to the coast vía Prince George and Bella coola. This is not even on Tesla’s Radar and probably won’t be for a decade. Not knocking Tesla but it is the way it is.

The reality is if you have a Model S, a model X, a Bolt or the soon to be released Nissan Leaf EPlus then you have a great touring vehicle that enables you to see much of this Province including the much travelled tourism areas of the Kootenays. If you have a model three Tesla you can drive from Trans Canada 1 from border to border of the province. Yeh.

Again, not suggesting that Tesla has to put superchargers in all of these areas but there are probably many of us EVers that like to tour and won’t buy an EV that is limited to main routes only. We have a little time before upgrading our little smart EV and are hoping that Tesla will make the Chademo adaptor work with the 3. Otherwise it’s the Leaf e plus...even though it’s not near the car. But you know 25000 cheaper too. Our existing Leaf has been flawless and a nice drive...but not a Tesla. :)
 
webeleafowners said:
RonDawg said:
webeleafowners said:
The other hold back for us is the model 3 (unlike the S or X) can only be charged by a private proprietary fast charging system. Until a Chademo or CCS adapter is available we would probably not buy a Tesla Model 3.
Click to expand...

To be fair, there are far more Tesla SC's in the country (both in number of locations, as well as individual stations within each one) than CHAdeMO or CCS stations. Unless you are in an oddball situation where there's a CHAdeMO/CCS station within driving distance, but not a Tesla SC, it's really not necessary.
Click to expand...

Good morning. I think it depends where you are. We are in the province of BC. There are 12 Supercharger locations. There are however already over 70 CCS/Chademo locations and 55 under construction. The goverment is now in 3rd phase of their infrastructure project bringing CCS/Chademo coverage on routes north and over to the coast vía Prince George and Bella coola. This is not even on Tesla’s Radar and probably won’t be for a decade. Not knocking Tesla but it is the way it is.
Click to expand...

I am a bit familiar with the southern part of BC as I have visited there many times, including less than a month ago. I had driven from Vancouver to Banff via the Coquihalla as part of my winter vacation. I did see a Bolt headed westbound on the TransCanada somewhere between Revelstoke and Rogers Pass. But I saw more Teslas out in the middle of nowhere than any other EV. A few years ago a couple of friends and I had driven south from Revelstoke, took the ferry from Shelter Bay, and had dinner in Nelson before crossing the border and heading towards Spokane.

I'm glad the government of BC is spending a lot of money towards EV infrastructure, but cross into Alberta as I did and it gets sparse from there, according to what I can see on PlugShare. Headed eastbound on the TransCanada, after Field BC (which only has one of each type, the previous QC stations are at Golden), there's NO CCS or CHAdeMO until you get all the way to Calgary...and the southern part of Calgary at that, so you have to negotiate Calgary traffic to get there.

Switching the map to show Tesla SC's, while for some reason they have not built one at Field BC (Golden is the previous Tesla SC site), there is one at Canmore which I have personally seen, with 4 stalls. The next eastbound Tesla SC is also in Calgary, but that has 8 stalls.

On my trip last month, I was headed south from Calgary towards Great Falls MT via Lethbridge. At Ft MacLeod I pulled into a Shell station at the edge of town to use the bathroom and noticed several Tesla SC's on the property. The nearest CCS/CHAdeMO to here are back in Calgary, Sparwood BC, or Medicine Hat.

The situations where CHAdeMO/CCS outnumber Tesla as in the case of Prince George/Bella Coola is very much an exception. I'm not sure why Tesla doesn't think of putting them here as I've seen their SC's in some locations I thought I'd never see charging infrastructure of any sort (like Ft MacLeod). But even then Prince George is a CHAdeMO/CCS island, with the next nearest such stations being at Spences Bridge. At 487 km/304 miles, a Tesla Model 3 LR would be hard pressed to make that journey, much less any other EV. A Bolt or similar 200 mile EV would require long stops at an L2 along the way.
 
GerryAZ said:
Since this thread is a comparison between Tesla Model 3 and LEAF, I have a question that was never answered in another thread: How much charge would be lost if I parked a Model 3 at the airport or my office for 3 weeks in Phoenix in June (day time temperatures of 105 to 120 F) without being plugged in. My Leaf has virtually the same SOC (state of charge) when I return as when I park and it keeps the 12-volt battery charged so it is always ready to drive home.
Click to expand...
Personally, it doesn't matter what car I own, I wouldn't want to pay for 3 weeks of parking. I would recommend taking an Uber/Lyft to the airport unless you're REALLY far away from it.
 
Durandal said:
Personally, it doesn't matter what car I own, I wouldn't want to pay for 3 weeks of parking. I would recommend taking an Uber/Lyft to the airport unless you're REALLY far away from it.
Click to expand...

Sometimes the convenience of having your car at the airport outweighs the cost savings of taking other forms of transport. Especially coming back after a long flight, it's no fun having to wait for even an Uber to come pick you up. And if there is a surge of inbound airport passengers at the same time as you, there could be surge pricing in effect, negating any cost savings.
 
RonDawg said:
webeleafowners said:
RonDawg said:
To be fair, there are far more Tesla SC's in the country (both in number of locations, as well as individual stations within each one) than CHAdeMO or CCS stations. Unless you are in an oddball situation where there's a CHAdeMO/CCS station within driving distance, but not a Tesla SC, it's really not necessary.
Click to expand...

Good morning. I think it depends where you are. We are in the province of BC. There are 12 Supercharger locations. There are however already over 70 CCS/Chademo locations and 55 under construction. The goverment is now in 3rd phase of their infrastructure project bringing CCS/Chademo coverage on routes north and over to the coast vía Prince George and Bella coola. This is not even on Tesla’s Radar and probably won’t be for a decade. Not knocking Tesla but it is the way it is.
Click to expand...

I am a bit familiar with the southern part of BC as I have visited there many times, including less than a month ago. I had driven from Vancouver to Banff via the Coquihalla as part of my winter vacation. I did see a Bolt headed westbound on the TransCanada somewhere between Revelstoke and Rogers Pass. But I saw more Teslas out in the middle of nowhere than any other EV. A few years ago a couple of friends and I had driven south from Revelstoke, took the ferry from Shelter Bay, and had dinner in Nelson before crossing the border and heading towards Spokane.

I'm glad the government of BC is spending a lot of money towards EV infrastructure, but cross into Alberta as I did and it gets sparse from there, according to what I can see on PlugShare. Headed eastbound on the TransCanada, after Field BC (which only has one of each type, the previous QC stations are at Golden), there's NO CCS or CHAdeMO until you get all the way to Calgary...and the southern part of Calgary at that, so you have to negotiate Calgary traffic to get there.

Switching the map to show Tesla SC's, while for some reason they have not built one at Field BC (Golden is the previous Tesla SC site), there is one at Canmore which I have personally seen, with 4 stalls. The next eastbound Tesla SC is also in Calgary, but that has 8 stalls.

On my trip last month, I was headed south from Calgary towards Great Falls MT via Lethbridge. At Ft MacLeod I pulled into a Shell station at the edge of town to use the bathroom and noticed several Tesla SC's on the property. The nearest CCS/CHAdeMO to here are back in Calgary, Sparwood BC, or Medicine Hat.

The situations where CHAdeMO/CCS outnumber Tesla as in the case of Prince George/Bella Coola is very much an exception. I'm not sure why Tesla doesn't think of putting them here as I've seen their SC's in some locations I thought I'd never see charging infrastructure of any sort (like Ft MacLeod). But even then Prince George is a CHAdeMO/CCS island, with the next nearest such stations being at Spences Bridge. At 487 km/304 miles, a Tesla Model 3 LR would be hard pressed to make that journey, much less any other EV. A Bolt or similar 200 mile EV would require long stops at an L2 along the way.
Click to expand...

Yah. Most of the northern routes Chademo facilities are on the third phase of the project. EG Prince George over to Bella coola. So sometimes this year.

The kootenays is devoid of Tesla Superchargers but we’ll covered by CCS/Chademo thanks to the kootenays connect project. You would need to be in a model X or model S for these routes. A model 3 wouldn’t work.
 
RonDawg said:
Durandal said:
Personally, it doesn't matter what car I own, I wouldn't want to pay for 3 weeks of parking. I would recommend taking an Uber/Lyft to the airport unless you're REALLY far away from it.
Click to expand...

Sometimes the convenience of having your car at the airport outweighs the cost savings of taking other forms of transport. Especially coming back after a long flight, it's no fun having to wait for even an Uber to come pick you up. And if there is a surge of inbound airport passengers at the same time as you, there could be surge pricing in effect, negating any cost savings.
Click to expand...
Good point.
 
RonDawg said:
Durandal said:
Personally, it doesn't matter what car I own, I wouldn't want to pay for 3 weeks of parking. I would recommend taking an Uber/Lyft to the airport unless you're REALLY far away from it.
Click to expand...

Sometimes the convenience of having your car at the airport outweighs the cost savings of taking other forms of transport. Especially coming back after a long flight, it's no fun having to wait for even an Uber to come pick you up. And if there is a surge of inbound airport passengers at the same time as you, there could be surge pricing in effect, negating any cost savings.
Click to expand...

I have tried public transportation to/from the airport a couple of times--takes a lot of extra time each way so convenience is worth parking cost. I also frequently park at my office and drive an SUV to remote construction sites.

I am surprised that none of the Tesla drivers have answered my question. I did receive an answer from a Tesla representative in their showroom at one of the malls here a while back. When asked about long-term parking without being plugged in during hot weather, the answer was "we don't recommend that" (which surprised me) so I was hoping to get some perspective on this from Tesla owners.
 
Yeah, I don't have a Tesla yet, so I can't comment. From what I understand, it wouldn't be advisable for anything beyond a week in extreme temperatures. I think the vampire drain is 1-2%/day. Where I am, there is a parking deck that has a quick shuttle to the airport that has 120v plugins for electric cars which would be ideal to keep the car topped up and conditioned. (It's also covered.)

Check the following thread:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/vampire-drain-loss-tracking.125787/

jcal0820 says: "I recently parked my brand new Model 3 at long term airport indoor parking garage for 5 days... when I parked it there, had exactly 254 miles of range. After coming back 5 days later, had 232 miles left. Only other thing I did during that time was periodically check in on it through the Tesla app. "
 
GerryAZ said:
I am surprised that none of the Tesla drivers have answered my question.
Click to expand...
I didn't answer because I don't know what would happen in your climate.

My only similar experience: I left my S and LEAF unplugged in my garage in the Massachusetts last March for 2 weeks when I was down under. When I came back I had no problem with either. The S will do what it needs to keep the battery at the right temps, and that consumes power (and I think is the primary source of "vampire drain").

I looked up the stats from my trip on TeslaFi: when I left on 3/15, the car had 186 miles of range; when I got back on 4/1, it was at 141 miles of range.

If I was parking it for a long time in a hot climate, I would probably turn off the cabin overheat protection. My only suggestion.

(when I travel, I always take some other form of transit to the airport, because getting in and out of Logan Airport in Boston is a PITA)
 
Durandal,
Thanks for posting the link. I am amazed at the amount of "vampire draw" (wasted energy) while the cars are parked in moderate temperatures.

Jlv,
Thanks for replying with your experience. It sounds like your loss of charge while parked in your garage in moderate temperatures is similar to what others posted in the Tesla forum. I can only guess how much energy a Tesla would use while parked in my climate in the summer--I now understand why the Tesla representative in the showroom at a local mall said "we don't recommend that" when I asked about long-term parking without being plugged in.

I need to park for extended time without plugging in so it looks like a Tesla S,X, or 3 would not be appropriate for me.
 
GerryAZ said:
Since this thread is a comparison between Tesla Model 3 and LEAF, I have a question that was never answered in another thread: How much charge would be lost if I parked a Model 3 at the airport or my office for 3 weeks in Phoenix in June (day time temperatures of 105 to 120 F) without being plugged in. My Leaf has virtually the same SOC (state of charge) when I return as when I park and it keeps the 12-volt battery charged so it is always ready to drive home.
Click to expand...

I recently went on a 1 month trip. My Nissan Leaf lost zero percent charge in a month. My Tesla Model 3 lost 2 percent charge per day.
 
Oh, and also, the Nissan Leaf has a smoother ride. The Tesla Model 3 has a bumpier ride.

Bottom line, if you want auto pilot, buy the Tesla Model 3. If you want to drive it yourself and hate autopilot, buy the Nissan Leaf. The Leaf is a much nicer driving and driver friendly car. However, the Tesla Model 3 has much more high tech.

If they are girls, the Leaf is the practical, dependable older sister. The Model 3 is the crazy, sexy younger sister. The Model 3 goes much faster, handles better, but has a much bumpier ride. It is also less practical without the practical cargo capacity of a hatchback.
 
I've always assumed that a person who buys a M3 likely did a bit of research to read up on the LEAF or other EVs. And ultimately ruling out others due to battery degradation risk, or bad looks, or something else.

That is, until a I met a couple M3 owners in my area. I happened to park my 18 MY L next to a new M3 at a public charging station, and I was a bit surprised to see they had no idea of the features or benefits or even TCO of a LEAF vs a M3.

Albeit driving experience is subjective, I guess I shouldn't be surprised they chose the M3 simply because they've been "hearing" about Tesla from friends and colleagues or just online chatter. One owner had no idea the current L has autopilot (Level 2), free charging for 2 years, or how gigantic the trunk is.

It's genius that Elon with Tesla continues to have mind share in the general public even without any marketing. Yet Nissan doesn't really seem to be trying at all or seriously enough and is essentially giving up market share to Tesla as they cannot figure out how to market these things effectively in the USA.

It's kind of sad as EV adoption would increase a lot faster if more people simply did some research and see the really affordable options out there...but I guess I expect too much.
 
It's ironic, all right: the EV that fits best with how people view their lives on social media (as opposed to what they actually need), vs the EV whose company seems to not want it to be widely successful despite it finally being a great second car for almost everyone.
 
jdcbomb said:
I've always assumed that a person who buys a M3 likely did a bit of research to read up on the LEAF or other EVs. And ultimately ruling out others due to battery degradation risk, or bad looks, or something else.

That is, until a I met a couple M3 owners in my area. I happened to park my 18 MY L next to a new M3 at a public charging station, and I was a bit surprised to see they had no idea of the features or benefits or even TCO of a LEAF vs a M3.

Albeit driving experience is subjective, I guess I shouldn't be surprised they chose the M3 simply because they've been "hearing" about Tesla from friends and colleagues or just online chatter. One owner had no idea the current L has autopilot (Level 2), free charging for 2 years, or how gigantic the trunk is.

It's genius that Elon with Tesla continues to have mind share in the general public even without any marketing. Yet Nissan doesn't really seem to be trying at all or seriously enough and is essentially giving up market share to Tesla as they cannot figure out how to market these things effectively in the USA.

It's kind of sad as EV adoption would increase a lot faster if more people simply did some research and see the really affordable options out there...but I guess I expect too much.
Click to expand...
Er, some of us did research, and a lot of it. And we have both a LEAF and a Model 3 to show for it. Different vehicles to be sure, filling different needs, both EV, both delightful in their own way. And in my view, Nissan gave up its huge first-mover advantage by not addressing the big complaints in any meaningful way of those of us who bought the early LEAFs (yeah, I know about the 5-year battery replacement...too little too late and really helped only those in hot climates). The rest of us had weak batteries too with no recompense. They then compounded the errors, again in my view, by being excruciatingly slow to market longer range vehicles. While nice, I'd call 200+ miles table stakes today, and 300 and beyond quite desirable given cold weather issues with all EVs. Yes, SuperChargers and DCQCs are very helpful and enable an EV to be an ICE replacement for longer distances. That said, it is still much, much easier and much, much faster to fill up a gas tank than to fill up an electron tank. I don't care where you put a SuperCharger/DCQC, I don't want to spend 45 minutes to an hour there at every fillup.
 
GerryAZ said:
Durandal,
Thanks for posting the link. I am amazed at the amount of "vampire draw" (wasted energy) while the cars are parked in moderate temperatures.

Jlv,
Thanks for replying with your experience. It sounds like your loss of charge while parked in your garage in moderate temperatures is similar to what others posted in the Tesla forum. I can only guess how much energy a Tesla would use while parked in my climate in the summer--I now understand why the Tesla representative in the showroom at a local mall said "we don't recommend that" when I asked about long-term parking without being plugged in.

I need to park for extended time without plugging in so it looks like a Tesla S,X, or 3 would not be appropriate for me.
Click to expand...

My S pulled about 1% every 4-5 days with a 12V tender.
 

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