jlsoaz
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Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:06 am

Is the Leaf for sale at this dealership? I was at the dealership a few years ago, and it was not for sale there at this time. I don't speak Spanish so it is difficult for me to tell if things are updated. I do see the Leaf mentioned on the web page, but maybe that is just a standard web page setup with no tie-in to what is available at the dealership:

https://www.nissannogales.com.mx/modelo ... electricos

I also do not see any indication on plugshare.com that there is a charge station.

Anyway, I don't know if it's for sale there or not, but it is a city of 200,000+ people and my impression is they would like to sell the vehicle. There is a separate matter of whether the Leaf is designed from the standpoint of thermal management and battery degradation in such a way that maybe it should not be sold in Mexico, but Nissan seems to think it is ok to sell in Mexico. So, if that is true, please consider selling it in Nogales, Mexico.

It is the closest Nissan dealership to me, but as to whether I would buy one there: it is unlikely because
- I already had a very bad experience with battery degradation in my 2012 Leaf and although I'm sure Nissan has made great strides, I've heard mixed comments from other drivers as to whether a battery does well in this local climate.
- I am not getting involved with another a new vehicle (avoidance of paying the depreciation on a new vehicle is a main reason).
- I am not sure about the issues importing the vehicle to the US.

With all that said, 4 or 6 years from now, once the e+ has aged in the market and if the battery shows signs that it is doing better than I fear it might in the local climate, then would I consider buying a used one there? Yes.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

RonDawg
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Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:37 am

If you use Chrome, there's an option to have it translate the page, though some things (particularly button links that are images) still remain in the original language.

It appears the Leaf is officially for sale down there as it appears on the main Nissan Mexicana website as well, under "HÍBRIDOS Y ELÉCTRICOS ". https://www.nissan.com.mx/ There are three trim levels just like us, ranging in price from 697k to 775k Pesos. That's US $36k-almost 40k. I didn't compare individual specifications to see how they compared to US models.

That said, it's going to be a tough sell at that price. The X-Trail (our Rogue) Hybrid is about 100k Pesos cheaper. A standard X-Trail is almost half the price of a base Leaf in Mexico. You can get a Murano or Pathfinder for less money. Those who need fuel economy can go with a Versa (184k Pesos/US$9500) or even a March (Micra in Canada, not sold in the US) for 184k Pesos/US $8k.

As far as importation, besides losing any Federal and possible local subsidies, keep in mind that many cars in Latin America are de-contented compared to their American-spec versions, particularly along safety lines. I don't know about the latest models, but as recently as a few years ago cheap cars like the Versa which are mandated to have airbags here did not have them across the border. That will cause you problems with importation if the car is less than 25 years old. Remember this is a country where until just a few years ago, you could buy what was essentially a 1991-1994 Nissan Sentra brand new, called the Tsuru.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:11 pm

If the climate there includes warm nights along with hot days, I would avoid the Leaf. If the nights cool off a lot, then you might look for a good 2015 Leaf in the US. The 2016+ Leaf has not shown any particular resistance to hotter weather...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jlsoaz
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
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Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:31 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:If the climate there includes warm nights along with hot days, I would avoid the Leaf. If the nights cool off a lot, then you might look for a good 2015 Leaf in the US. The 2016+ Leaf has not shown any particular resistance to hotter weather...


Thanks, I didn't know about or had forgotten about the 2016+ Leaf not showing any particular resistance to the hotter weather.

Responding to both:

Last I checked Nissan sold nearly or about 25% of the vehicles sold in Mexico. They are a real leader there. As part of being a member (at a distance) in the Tucson EV Association, we have developed some communication with EV Advocates in Hermosillo (another 2-3 hours south of Nogales I think), and those folks are EV-knowledgeable and got it done over the years, a couple of different dealerships have been selling Leafs there for awhile now. The dealerships with the stations can be seen on plugshare.com.

As to Nogales, SON, Mexico, I visited the Nissan dealership some years ago (with EV advocate EVJerry, in our Leafs) and they didn't have any Leafs for sale. Ok, but now that we are on the cusp of a longer-range Leaf, then will Nissan supply the Leaf to that dealership? I do think the dealership might have wanted to carry them, though with my lack of language ability, it's hard to say. I still do think there is a major concern around battery degradation, but this is a different question from why Nissan is picking and choosing which places and dealerships it sells the vehicles. If it is saying that it is selling Leafs in parts of Mexico regardless of any concerns around range degradation, then how is it being determined which cities are graced with the wonderfulness of Leaf availability?

To add a point to the mix, the roads are pretty bad in Nogales, SON, and perhaps there is a reluctance to sell premium vehicles there. I don't know.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

baustin
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Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:19 am

In the U.S., Nissan requires the dealership to have technicians trained specifically on the LEAF before they can service or sell them. I would image it is also that way in other countries.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

jlsoaz
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Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:15 am

baustin wrote:In the U.S., Nissan requires the dealership to have technicians trained specifically on the LEAF before they can service or sell them. I would image it is also that way in other countries.


Yes, that makes sense. I have no way to know if the dealership has been offered any training, or if they have embraced it.

172 miles to the south in Hermosillo (which admittedly is a larger city) there are two dealerships, at least one of which sells or sold Leafs, per plugshare.com and one or two conversations I had a long time ago with EV Association members there.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/63830
https://www.plugshare.com/location/112735

As to Nogales, Sonora, it is smaller than Hermosillo, but there are 200,000+ residents there.

I'm guessing there could be a few factors that go into when a dealers is able to sell EVs including (perhaps):
- whether local customers push for the vehicle,
- whether the dealership wants to sell the vehicles,
- whether it wants to get into the additional equipment and training,
- whether the company in general thinks it is a good idea to sell it there,
etc.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

powersurge
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Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:53 am

Believe me.... You don't want a Leaf in a desert or tropical environment.. The car will die in a year..

jlsoaz
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
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Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:13 am

:x
powersurge wrote:Believe me.... You don't want a Leaf in a desert or tropical environment.. The car will die in a year..


Thanks. There are a variety of climates out there. I had a Leaf here in the (somewhat) high desert (around 3500 feet) in Arizona, near the Nogales, Sonora dealership this thread is about, and while the Leaf I drove didn't die in a year, it certainly did go through its share of bar loss on what was already insufficient range for my purposes to begin with:
https://survey.pluginamerica.org/leaf/v ... hp?vid=229

So, your point is I think over-simplified, but it is well-taken.

However, for right or for wrong, Nissan doesn't seem to be heeding the idea of avoiding all Leaf sales in all hot or somewhat-hot climates. I personally would be bit somewhat reluctant to sell Leafs in some parts of Mexico, though I'd consider it. Nissan seems to be selling Leafs there: we can see Nissan dealerships throughout Mexico (presumably some of those locations hotter than this location) which have charge stations and (I'm guessing) also sell Leafs:
https://www.plugshare.com
some random examples:
https://www.plugshare.com/location/140473
https://www.plugshare.com/location/142092
https://www.plugshare.com/location/136972

As I wrote I realized that my random look was at dealerships probably very high above sea level, so here is one that is not so high above sea level:
https://www.plugshare.com/location/135276

I do understand that Nogales, Sonora has its share of real issues and I don't know what Nissan corporate's considerations are when they make key decisions on where to sell and invest. I can think of a few counter-considerations myself which would give me pause in selling an advanced 2019 200+ mile BEV there. Still, I've spent a limited amount of time in Nogales, Sonora, and I can think of some strong arguments for doing business there, and I once visited the Nissan dealership, where I was treated quite well, and where it was my fallible impression they might be interested to sell Leafs.

So, what I'm saying here in this thread is that if Nissan is going to be such a strong leader in the Mexican market (which it is) and if they are going to sell Leafs at some dealerships there (which they apparently do) then I'd request they please consider (or re-consider) approaching the Nogales, Sonora dealership and having a constructive conversation with them about whether it would be a good idea to offer the Leaf for sale there, or hashing out what the timeline and considerations should be for all concerned to get to the point where this can be done.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

baustin
Posts: 704
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Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:13 am

I don't know how it works in Mexico, but in the USA none of the dealerships are owned by Nissan. The dealership has to initiate the process to Sell and Service the Leaf. There are Staffing and Training requirements they have to meet before being authorized to handle the Leaf. It is also possible that Nissan may not authorize any dealers to handle the Leaf in certain markets.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

jlsoaz
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
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Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:28 pm

baustin wrote:I don't know how it works in Mexico, but in the USA none of the dealerships are owned by Nissan. The dealership has to initiate the process to Sell and Service the Leaf. There are Staffing and Training requirements they have to meet before being authorized to handle the Leaf. It is also possible that Nissan may not authorize any dealers to handle the Leaf in certain markets.


That all makes sense.

I don't know if this particular dealership has applied to Nissan, or indicated an interest, but at one time it seems to me I heard they had been interested. Whether that is correct or not, given the population growth that has taken place in that city, I do think it can't hurt for Nissan to explore if it might be a good location from which to sell Leafs.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

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