GRA
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:53 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:That is because you live int he Bay Area. A screen shade on the car works and the ability to have some warmth in the cold is a bonus without using the heat. Not such an issue here and can be mitigated. I think the roof is more an asset.

The issue isn't whether or not a shade works, it's whether or not I want to have to pay for and use one to provide shade/insulation from sun that is let into the car by an expensive and heavy glass roof that I don't want or need. If someone wants the roof it's their money, and more power to them. I don't, and the car would be less expensive without it.
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lpickup
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:41 am

GRA wrote:That is definitely not the case for some owners, and I would include myself in that group if I were an owner. Here's one such post on TMC:
It is a very dark tint on the 3. Im not in AZ, but here in MD yesterday it was 44 Deg. F and the temp in the vehicle was 108 Deg. F. The car was parked in the sun, but if that is a preview of things to come, it could be a hot summer inside.


I missed the part of that quote where the 108F temperature was attributed to the glass roof. ;)

Seriously, I am not claiming in any way that the cabin does not heat up. It does, although the cabin overheat protection, if enabled, does keep it at a reasonable temperature at the expense of battery life.

What I am saying is that I don't believe the glass roof is to blame. In the dead heat of the summer I can feel the heat coming in through the side windows on my arms, and when you lean forward or extend your arm forward, through the windshield. But I feel no heat whatsoever through the roof.
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:32 pm

lpickup wrote:What I am saying is that I don't believe the glass roof is to blame. In the dead heat of the summer I can feel the heat coming in through the side windows on my arms, and when you lean forward or extend your arm forward, through the windshield. But I feel no heat whatsoever through the roof.
I had my side windows tinted on my X as I roadtrip and in past vehicles you can easily see that the UV protection in side windows is limited resulting in sunburns (that was in a non-Tesla). Searches find this common.

When my son got this 3, I suggested that as well. Funny point last Fall was that while driving he thought it may be cooler with his driver's windows down. He was quite surprised how hot the sun was without the window (and with the wind even) by comparison to his closed tinted window.

Note it hardly has to be any darkness in tint at all. Even the lightest high quality tints block huge (95-98%) UV.
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GRA
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:24 pm

lpickup wrote:
GRA wrote:That is definitely not the case for some owners, and I would include myself in that group if I were an owner. Here's one such post on TMC:
It is a very dark tint on the 3. Im not in AZ, but here in MD yesterday it was 44 Deg. F and the temp in the vehicle was 108 Deg. F. The car was parked in the sun, but if that is a preview of things to come, it could be a hot summer inside.


I missed the part of that quote where the 108F temperature was attributed to the glass roof. ;)

Seriously, I am not claiming in any way that the cabin does not heat up. It does, although the cabin overheat protection, if enabled, does keep it at a reasonable temperature at the expense of battery life.

What I am saying is that I don't believe the glass roof is to blame. In the dead heat of the summer I can feel the heat coming in through the side windows on my arms, and when you lean forward or extend your arm forward, through the windshield. But I feel no heat whatsoever through the roof.

Obviously, solar gain will be through all surfaces, with the glass ones having the most. But the last thing I want is a closer to horizontal than vertical glass roof, especially in the desert southwest, to add to the solar gain through the windshield (and depending on orientation and time of year, the side/rear windows, which I also screen as needed). I already have to use a shade for that. I choose car colors with high albedo to limit the amount of solar gain inside (and that's for an ICE, never mind a BEV), so why would I want to throw that benefit away on a glass roof that I will never want or need that costs me more?

I see that the Model Y is going to have one as well, which would eliminate it for me, if everything on the touchscreen, the length, the price of the LR AWD and the slope of the rear hatch hadn't already done that.
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:27 pm

Just stumbled across https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... mr.145988/. Sure enough, mid-range version is no longer listed at https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#battery. Did this just happen today or yesterday?

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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:20 am

GRA wrote:...I see that the Model Y is going to have one as well, which would eliminate it for me, if everything on the touchscreen, the length, the price of the LR AWD and the slope of the rear hatch hadn't already done that.
Oh come now, Guy. No EV will EVER have the right features to satisfy you! Doesn't seem to match your signature: "The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'" — you want perfection in every possible detail, as you define them, and nothing else will do. In the unlikely event that one came close, you would morph your requirements to eliminate it. If the Forester suits you better, that's fine. Others of us "make do" with EVs and have lots of fun with them; I think that you are missing out!

I'd rather not have a glass roof since I prefer the sound and thermal insulation of a conventional roof, as in my current car. But Tesla glass roofs have been out for years now and most people find that they work well and some really like them. If I got a newer car with one, it wouldn't be a big deal — I'd get used to it, it's a little thing.
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:47 am

GRA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:That is because you live int he Bay Area. A screen shade on the car works and the ability to have some warmth in the cold is a bonus without using the heat. Not such an issue here and can be mitigated. I think the roof is more an asset.

The issue isn't whether or not a shade works, it's whether or not I want to have to pay for and use one to provide shade/insulation from sun that is let into the car by an expensive and heavy glass roof that I don't want or need. If someone wants the roof it's their money, and more power to them. I don't, and the car would be less expensive without it.



Believe me it's not needed. However, even with a steel roof I don't see you buying a Tesla for other reasons so it's a bit moot. They don't make custom cars and those that don't own one seem to have many issues with them for one reason or another but many of those perceptions are wrong. Both you and LorenFb will dwell on Tesla and other things for eternity. Loren's reasons change weekly with the latest that the 3 looks like a Chevy Malibu. Straws----Grasping.

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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:14 pm

GRA wrote:... an expensive and heavy glass roof that I don't want or need. If someone wants the roof it's their money, and more power to them. I don't, and the car would be less expensive without it.

Elon says the glass roof makes the car cheaper to manufacturer. The glass roof allows easier access to the cabin for the robots and the glass roof is added after interior work is done. Tesla manufacturers the glass by themselves so that cuts down costs. Glass raw materials are cheap, basically sand that you can scoop off the earth.
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:14 pm

The glass roof is a marvel of technology. I live in the sunny SW, dislike heat, and still cannot get over how well the roof controls solar gain. The side windows and the windshield sure could use some tinting though.
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GRA
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:59 pm

dgpcolorado wrote:
GRA wrote:...I see that the Model Y is going to have one as well, which would eliminate it for me, if everything on the touchscreen, the length, the price of the LR AWD and the slope of the rear hatch hadn't already done that.
Oh come now, Guy. No EV will EVER have the right features to satisfy you! Doesn't seem to match your signature: "The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'" — you want perfection in every possible detail, as you define them, and nothing else will do. In the unlikely event that one came close, you would morph your requirements to eliminate it. If the Forester suits you better, that's fine. Others of us "make do" with EVs and have lots of fun with them; I think that you are missing out!

No, I want an EV that meets my major requirements: one that is "good enough" doesn't have to be perfect. At the moment, no EV meets them, and I am unwilling to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a vehicle that forces me to "make do," given how long I keep a car and that I expect my next car purchase to be my last, giving me a grand total of five in my lifetime. I expect by the time my next car reaches the end of its useful life, rather than buying another I will instead use intermodal MaaS AVs, allowing me to forsake car ownership (given that my driving skills will likely have started to deteriorate by that time due to age, that's a good thing for everyone). I have hopes that BEVs will meet my major requirements in a few years. If the Kia Niro EV had 300+ miles of range, could charge to 80% in 1/2 hour or less, and was AWD, it would probably (have to check that I can lie down stretched out in the back, one of my firm requirements for any car) be "good enough". FCEVs already meet most of my operational requirements (I could make the Nexo work, albeit it's a bit bigger than I'd like and lacks AWD), but still lack the fueling infrastructure and are too expensive.

dgpcolorado wrote:I'd rather not have a glass roof since I prefer the sound and thermal insulation of a conventional roof, as in my current car. But Tesla glass roofs have been out for years now and most people find that they work well and some really like them. If I got a newer car with one, it wouldn't be a big deal — I'd get used to it, it's a little thing.

Which is a matter of personal taste and need, and everyone has their own. Could I make a car with a glass roof work? Sure, but see above about making do. I'm very picky about the cars (and other durable equipment) I buy, because I know I'll be putting up with them for a long time. I am not someone who turns over equipment at a high rate just because there's something new out; the new thing has to be significantly better (meeting my personal idiosyncratic needs) than what I already have to get me to switch, and one of the 'good enoughs' for me is value for money over the long term. There's a wide range of ICEs that are "good enough" operationally now, but in a couple of years I expect the same to be true of BEVs and maybe FCEVs. I'm willing to wait, although it pains me to have to delay the out-of-state trips I've been putting off for years now a few more until I can do them in a ZEV. In the meantime, I do more local trips that I can do via mass transit, bike and/or feet, and keep my solo (ICE) driving in-state. I also gave up flying except for emergencies and bucket list items basically at the start of this century, and don't expect to do so again until jet biofuels are widely used.
Last edited by GRA on Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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