Tesla Supercharger Network

SageBrush said:

GRA said:

"A little".

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That is one of the interesting things about Tesla. They often miss their projections by a lot, yet they are a decade ahead of everybody else and the gap is widening by the day.

No doubt they slowed down deployment waiting for the V3 roll-out. If they speed up from here on out I am a happy camper with their decision. And to give some context to Tesla "slowing down," I'll mention that they are up to 12,888 stalls world-wide per the Tesla map today. Or using the supercharge.info tabulation, that works out to about a 42% expansion of the best network by FAR in a year. And now the ENTIRE network is getting an upgrade

And there is more: Tesla is pushing out an OTA firmware change that will improve the charge taper in my car.I expect to average 120 kW using the old network and 160 kW using V3.

Here is another context: Tesla increased its world-wide fleet by ~ 30% in 2018. Between the additional deployment of network, speed-up of the system, and improved charging characteristics of the 2170 cell fleet, network utilization will drop by ~ (1.42*1.1)/1.3 = 20%

Tesla rocks.

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I suspect the main reason they slowed down deployment was lack of funds, although a shift to urban SCs to handle all the Model 3s that couldn't charge at home also was a factor. Last year they virtually stopped expansion of coverage SCs in the US (and Canada), which is why I-94 has now been pushed back for the fifth? year, I-15 and I-29 remain incomplete as does the Trans-Canadian Highway, not to mention all the off-interstate SCs they've been promising for years.

As to "the gap widening by the day," we obviously have very different views. In most of the world, Tesla's first mover advantage is closing by the day. That's certainly true in the U.S. (EA) and Europe (Ionity etc.) and will soon begin in Canada as well as Electrify Canada starts opening sites.

GRA said:

I suspect the main reason they slowed down deployment was lack of funds, although a shift to urban SCs to handle all the Model 3s that couldn't charge at home also was a factor.

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Did you listen to the below youtube section I pointed out?

scottf200 said:

Elon said we slowed down the supercharger install a little in anticipation on v3 and now it will be spooled up. URL points to that part of the the Tesla Model Y presentation that mentioned it. (Lot of new (1-2yr) Tesla fans so he went thru history at beginning of Model Y pres).

https://youtu.be/Tb_Wn6K0uVs?t=1462

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scottf200 said:

GRA said:

I suspect the main reason they slowed down deployment was lack of funds, although a shift to urban SCs to handle all the Model 3s that couldn't charge at home also was a factor.

Click to expand...

Did you listen to the below youtube section I pointed out?

scottf200 said:

Elon said we slowed down the supercharger install a little in anticipation on v3 and now it will be spooled up. URL points to that part of the the Tesla Model Y presentation that mentioned it. (Lot of new (1-2yr) Tesla fans so he went thru history at beginning of Model Y pres).

https://youtu.be/Tb_Wn6K0uVs?t=1462

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Nope, my ability to listen to anything is pretty restricted given my hearing loss. Besides, Elon makes lots of claims; some of them are accurate ("funding secured" etc.). Anyone care to take bets on when the Model Y will be out in more than token numbers? Based on their track record I figure we should add a minimum of six months to the time they announced, but maybe THIS time they'll finally get it right.

GRA said:

scottf200 said:

GRA said:

I suspect the main reason they slowed down deployment was lack of funds, although a shift to urban SCs to handle all the Model 3s that couldn't charge at home also was a factor.

Click to expand...

Did you listen to the below youtube section I pointed out?

scottf200 said:

Elon said we slowed down the supercharger install a little in anticipation on v3 and now it will be spooled up. URL points to that part of the the Tesla Model Y presentation that mentioned it. (Lot of new (1-2yr) Tesla fans so he went thru history at beginning of Model Y pres).

https://youtu.be/Tb_Wn6K0uVs?t=1462

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Nope, my ability to listen to anything is pretty restricted given my hearing loss. Besides, Elon makes lots of claims; some of them are accurate ("funding secured" etc.).

[tangent] Anyone care to take bets on when the Model Y will be out in more than token numbers? Based on their track record I figure we should add a minimum of six months to the time they announced, but maybe THIS time they'll finally get it right.

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[tangent response] Well that is pretty disappointing and says some more about your opinion based on what information you take in.

1) The kicker here is the Model Y is 75% like the Model 3.
2) Another is that the China factory is built at the China pace and it is making 3s and Ys.
3) Y being built at same factory as batteries. A TMC person in the industry with friends at the Spark facility indicates they are actively getting this going/moving things as necessary.

The big deal to me is they didn't take on big unknowns with the Y and it is so much like the 3. This is a different scenario than the S, X, or 3.

BUT back to the point if THIS thread. If v3 was actively being worked on/out then it only makes common sense that they would put off some SCs so they could get v3s going instead of v2s even at 145kW. After all a major point of v3s is throughput / turnover of SC stalls.

scottf200 said:

GRA said:

scottf200 said:

Did you listen to the below youtube section I pointed out?

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Nope, my ability to listen to anything is pretty restricted given my hearing loss. Besides, Elon makes lots of claims; some of them are accurate ("funding secured" etc.).

[tangent] Anyone care to take bets on when the Model Y will be out in more than token numbers? Based on their track record I figure we should add a minimum of six months to the time they announced, but maybe THIS time they'll finally get it right.

Click to expand...

[tangent response] Well that is pretty disappointing and says some more about your opinion based on what information you take in.

1) The kicker here is the Model Y is 75% like the Model 3.
2) Another is that the China factory is built at the China pace and it is making 3s and Ys.
3) Y being built at same factory as batteries. A TMC person in the industry with friends at the Spark facility indicates they are actively getting this going/moving things as necessary.

The big deal to me is they didn't take on big unknowns with the Y and it is so much like the 3. This is a different scenario than the S, X, or 3.

BUT back to the point if THIS thread. If v3 was actively being worked on/out then it only makes common sense that they would put off some SCs so they could get v3s going instead of v2s even at 145kW. After all a major point of v3s is throughput / turnover of SC stalls.

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I feel considerably better about the Model Y's prospects than I did about previous claims, for the reasons you state. Of course, it was only because Elon was told to not be an idiot by members of the board that the Model Y is based on the 3.

June 2019 - Tesla X 100D
-- another adventure in books on the Supercharger network which makes for almost carefree traveling. Some days I've skipped chargers to hit the next one (perhaps then having longer lunch) and other days I hit most chargers on a route to take some short breaks and chill/snack/etc.

- Travel to MT with neighbor sightseeing for a week (Badlands, MtRushM, Beartooth road (11K'), YellowstonePark, Glcr Natl Park)
- Vacation with family that flew in to MT for several days (Glcr Ntnl Park) - charged on my sister's dryer plug
- BC Canada explore during week (until weekend visit below). BC was cool!
- Help WA brother-in-law with electrical in new shop over a long weekend
- Travel back to IL via CO where I visited a sister-in-law and did a little more sightseeing (independence pass (12K'))

Supercharging network is amazing and makes traveling simple with very minor planning required. In a larger battery car (S/X 100kWh) and 145 kW peak charging stops can be flexible as you can skip some or stop at most along your route. (would be same for smaller battery Model 3 (75kWh) and 200+ kW peak charging stops.

[Future travels would be a week shorting or just more travel time with friends/spouse. Looking forward to spouse retiring and exploring the East some].




[FYI, dip above was FW 2018.48 where they must have updated an algo to recalibration. It went back to normal range shortly while it stayed on FW 2018.48.]

Holy cow, looks like Tesla has shifted into another gear!
A huge span of Canada is currently under construction.
North Dakota is finally getting their SC built (two under construction now).
Alexandria MN, under construction and two locations in Minneapolis gearing up for construction in the next couple of weeks (one isn't on supercharge.info yet).


https://supercharge.info/map

Zythryn said:

Holy cow, looks like Tesla has shifted into another gear!
A huge span of Canada is currently under construction.
North Dakota is finally getting their SC built (two under construction now).
Alexandria MN, under construction and two locations in Minneapolis gearing up for construction in the next couple of weeks (one isn't on supercharge.info yet).


https://supercharge.info/map

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Your map wasn't showing so here is one without the current (red dot) active superchargers. I'm looking forward to taking that Canadian route out West.

Many thanks!!

Gee, they finally decided to put one in Tusayan, only four or is it five years after I suggested the need for one there. I mean, it's only the southern gateway to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon with its 6+ million visitors a year, and has a Holiday Inn Express which Tesla has had an SC relationship with. Apparently they're putting it at the Grand Hotel across the street instead (stayed there once), but whatever works. Still no sign of Kayenta, Kalispell, or Ashfork/Seligman/Williams or I-15 north of I-90 in Montana, and for some bizarre reason Tesla has SCs under construction in Bismarck and Dickenson ND, but still nothing on I-29 through Fargo up to Winnipeg, despite the latter metro area having a greater population than the entire state of ND, and Fargo being the largest city in ND. At least they finally got the Trans-Canada Hwy going, albeit two years late.

GRA said:

Gee, they finally decided to put one in Tusayan, only four or is it five years after I suggested the need for one there. I mean, it's only the southern gateway to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon with its 6+ million visitors a year, and has a Holiday Inn Express which Tesla has had an SC relationship with. Apparently they're putting it at the Grand Hotel across the street instead (stayed there once), but whatever works. Still no sign of Kayenta, Kalispell, or Ashfork/Seligman/Williams or I-15 north of I-90 in Montana, and for some bizarre reason Tesla has SCs under construction in Bismarck and Dickenson ND, but still nothing on I-29 through Fargo up to Winnipeg, despite the latter metro area having a greater population than the entire state of ND, and Fargo being the largest city in ND. At least they finally got the Trans-Canada Hwy going, albeit two years late.

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Do you think companies get to force property owners and permit approval to their own timelines? Many of the locations are held up for years as a result of negotiations. red tape, and technical issues. When you work in an industry related to doing this type of work even on the residential side you would know it is a complete nightmare and nothing goes as planned even at the most conservative estimates. The good thing is the private for-profit networks have covered the US very well with their single-focus business models with no distraction of building cars.

GRA said:

Gee, they finally decided to put one in Tusayan, only four or is it five years after I suggested the need for one there.

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The next time I lunch with Elon, I'll mention he should take the suggestions of the non-EV-owner experts more seriously. :lol:

This should be called the arm-chair warrior thread. A handful of non owner experts with professional first hand opinions formulated from the internet and its great wisdom.

EVDRIVER said:

GRA said:

Gee, they finally decided to put one in Tusayan, only four or is it five years after I suggested the need for one there. I mean, it's only the southern gateway to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon with its 6+ million visitors a year, and has a Holiday Inn Express which Tesla has had an SC relationship with. Apparently they're putting it at the Grand Hotel across the street instead (stayed there once), but whatever works. Still no sign of Kayenta, Kalispell, or Ashfork/Seligman/Williams or I-15 north of I-90 in Montana, and for some bizarre reason Tesla has SCs under construction in Bismarck and Dickenson ND, but still nothing on I-29 through Fargo up to Winnipeg, despite the latter metro area having a greater population than the entire state of ND, and Fargo being the largest city in ND. At least they finally got the Trans-Canada Hwy going, albeit two years late.

Click to expand...

Do you think companies get to force property owners and permit approval to their own timelines? Many of the locations are held up for years as a result of negotiations. red tape, and technical issues. When you work in an industry related to doing this type of work even on the residential side you would know it is a complete nightmare and nothing goes as planned even at the most conservative estimates. The good thing is the private for-profit networks have covered the US very well with their single-focus business models with no distraction of building cars.

Click to expand...

As I pointed out, Tesla has an existing arrangement with Holiday Inn Express and had already built SCs at numerous other of their motels, so that argument doesn't work there. Having installed a PV system in Yosemite, if you think dealing with private companies and local governments is a bureaucratic nightmare, try dealing with a federal government agency - took me two years and having to deal with 5 different departments to get everyone's sign-off.

Regarding most of the other sites mentioned, Tesla has had them shown as "Coming Soon" for several years now on their own SC map and lists, so raising expectations and the subsequent failure to meet them is on them. If they didn't have the permission and permits, they had no business listing them as "Coming Soon".

jlv said:

GRA said:

Gee, they finally decided to put one in Tusayan, only four or is it five years after I suggested the need for one there.

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The next time I lunch with Elon, I'll mention he should take the suggestions of the non-EV-owner experts more seriously. :lol:

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Seeing as how the opinions of non-owners as to what their needs are is important if you're trying to grow your customer base, you think Tesla should ignore them? Of course, these sites were widely discussed and agreed upon on TMC, most of whose members are owners and who also asked for them. An SC in the Kayenta area was probably the single most requested site in the whole Four Corners area, to allow easy access to/through Monument Valley. Offhand, O don't recall many (if any) requests for one in Page.

Tesla did listen to our SC requests in some cases (e.g. Groveland and Lone Pine in California), and not in others, e.g. putting the SC in Mammoth instead of Lee Vining, not that we objected to one in Mammoth also; Topaz Lake rather than Bridgeport was another one (again, no issue with having one in both places).

GRA said:

EVDRIVER said:

GRA said:

Gee, they finally decided to put one in Tusayan, only four or is it five years after I suggested the need for one there. I mean, it's only the southern gateway to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon with its 6+ million visitors a year, and has a Holiday Inn Express which Tesla has had an SC relationship with. Apparently they're putting it at the Grand Hotel across the street instead (stayed there once), but whatever works. Still no sign of Kayenta, Kalispell, or Ashfork/Seligman/Williams or I-15 north of I-90 in Montana, and for some bizarre reason Tesla has SCs under construction in Bismarck and Dickenson ND, but still nothing on I-29 through Fargo up to Winnipeg, despite the latter metro area having a greater population than the entire state of ND, and Fargo being the largest city in ND. At least they finally got the Trans-Canada Hwy going, albeit two years late.

Click to expand...

Do you think companies get to force property owners and permit approval to their own timelines? Many of the locations are held up for years as a result of negotiations. red tape, and technical issues. When you work in an industry related to doing this type of work even on the residential side you would know it is a complete nightmare and nothing goes as planned even at the most conservative estimates. The good thing is the private for-profit networks have covered the US very well with their single-focus business models with no distraction of building cars.

Click to expand...

As I pointed out, Tesla has an existing arrangement with Holiday Inn Express and had already built SCs at numerous other of their motels, so that argument doesn't work there. Having installed a PV system in Yosemite, if you think dealing with private companies and local governments is a bureaucratic nightmare, try dealing with a federal government agency - took me two years and having to deal with 5 different departments to get everyone's sign-off.

Regarding most of the other sites mentioned, Tesla has had them shown as "Coming Soon" for several years now on their own SC map and lists, so raising expectations and the subsequent failure to meet them is theirs.

Click to expand...

So your logic is because one location worked another should go quickly as well? Your logic and experience in these matters is flawed. Locations on a map for long periods of time also have no significance to any conclusions. It can take a year just to get PGE to agree on the entry point for power into a residential home so don't think Holiday Inn has some magic wand to solve all issues. If you actually worked in construction and dealt with these issues you would realize how insane you sound. Don't forget one resident can hold up any project for years. Put that on the list of hundreds of possible reasons for delays.

EVDRIVER said:

GRA said:

EVDRIVER said:

Do you think companies get to force property owners and permit approval to their own timelines? Many of the locations are held up for years as a result of negotiations. red tape, and technical issues. When you work in an industry related to doing this type of work even on the residential side you would know it is a complete nightmare and nothing goes as planned even at the most conservative estimates. The good thing is the private for-profit networks have covered the US very well with their single-focus business models with no distraction of building cars.

Click to expand...

As I pointed out, Tesla has an existing arrangement with Holiday Inn Express and had already built SCs at numerous other of their motels, so that argument doesn't work there. Having installed a PV system in Yosemite, if you think dealing with private companies and local governments is a bureaucratic nightmare, try dealing with a federal government agency - took me two years and having to deal with 5 different departments to get everyone's sign-off.

Regarding most of the other sites mentioned, Tesla has had them shown as "Coming Soon" for several years now on their own SC map and lists, so raising expectations and the subsequent failure to meet them is theirs.

Click to expand...

So your logic is because one location worked another should go quickly as well? Your logic and experience in these matters is flawed. Locations on a map for long periods of time also have no significance to any conclusions. It can take a year just to get PGE to agree on the entry point for power into a residential home so don't think Holiday Inn has some magic wand to solve all issues. If you actually worked in construction and dealt with these issues you would realize how insane you sound. Don't forget one resident can hold up any project for years. Put that on the list of hundreds of possible reasons for delays.

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It certainly eliminates holdups from the property owner's end if the corporation is onboard, as HIE is; Day's Inn is another such for Tesla (for EA, having Walmart and Target buy-in are examples of just how fast things can move). But as noted, Tesla ultimately didn't use HIE and went across the street instead. And unlike many of the years-delayed "Coming Soon" sites, Tesla hadn't listed Tusayan as such, so at least they didn't raise anyone's expectations there.

As to "Locations on a map for long periods of time also have no significance to any conclusions", if so, why did Tesla even put them on the map in the first place? This wasn't a case of potential sites, these were "Coming Soon". We've learned that for Tesla, "Soon" can vary from "this week" to "maybe sometime this decade," but it's entirely on them for so twisting the definition of "Soon".

Looks like Tesla hasn't given up on Bishop Superchargers after all:

https://www.sierrawave.net/telsa-seeks-to-put-12-re-charging-stations-in-bishop/

GRA said:

EVDRIVER said:

GRA said:

As I pointed out, Tesla has an existing arrangement with Holiday Inn Express and had already built SCs at numerous other of their motels, so that argument doesn't work there. Having installed a PV system in Yosemite, if you think dealing with private companies and local governments is a bureaucratic nightmare, try dealing with a federal government agency - took me two years and having to deal with 5 different departments to get everyone's sign-off.

Regarding most of the other sites mentioned, Tesla has had them shown as "Coming Soon" for several years now on their own SC map and lists, so raising expectations and the subsequent failure to meet them is theirs.

Click to expand...

So your logic is because one location worked another should go quickly as well? Your logic and experience in these matters is flawed. Locations on a map for long periods of time also have no significance to any conclusions. It can take a year just to get PGE to agree on the entry point for power into a residential home so don't think Holiday Inn has some magic wand to solve all issues. If you actually worked in construction and dealt with these issues you would realize how insane you sound. Don't forget one resident can hold up any project for years. Put that on the list of hundreds of possible reasons for delays.

Click to expand...

It certainly eliminates holdups from the property owner's end if the corporation is onboard, as HIE is; Day's Inn is another such for Tesla (for EA, having Walmart and Target buy-in are examples of just how fast things can move). But as noted, Tesla ultimately didn't use HIE and went across the street instead. And unlike many of the years-delayed "Coming Soon" sites, Tesla hadn't listed Tusayan as such, so at least they didn't raise anyone's expectations there.

As to "Locations on a map for long periods of time also have no significance to any conclusions", if so, why did Tesla even put them on the map in the first place? This wasn't a case of potential sites, these were "Coming Soon". We've learned that for Tesla, "Soon" can vary from "this week" to "maybe sometime this decade," but it's entirely on them for so twisting the definition of "Soon".

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Glad you simplified what went on with all those situations, you must have access to the day to day operations on both sides.

EVDRIVER said:

Glad you simplified what went on with all those situations, you must have access to the day to day operations on both sides.

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At least I contributed to the discussion and offered my suggestions to the company after examining the available infrastructure in the area. Here's some relevant posts on TMC discussing where SCs are desired in the region, which also involved at least two other MNL members. I imagine I wasn't the only person to forward comments to Tesla, on these and other occasions:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/missing-supercharger-routes-end-of-2015.30309/#post-877707

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-kayenta-az.41165/#post-1391885

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-west-yellowstone-mt.70788/page-3#post-1560067

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-needed-in-kanab-ut.108902/#post-2600800

We have at least gotten SCs in places like Estes Park, CO (E. gateway to Rocky Mtn. N.P.), Jackson, WY (S. gateway to Grand Teton N.P.), W. Yellowstone, MT (W. gateway to Yellowstone N.P.), Groveland and Fish Camp, CA (W. and S gateways to Yosemite N.P.), Lone Pine, CA (E. gateway to Whitney Portal area of Sequoia N.P.) and "Soon" (Tesla def.) in Tusayan. Whether any of our lobbying Tesla for these was a factor in their appearance I couldn't say, but you'd think they'd want to listen to and benefit from their existing and potential customers' desires.