Simple question with complex answers on level 2 charging

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Belskinator

New member
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
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1
I have a 2016 Nissan Leaf S. My simple question is - Is there a level 2 charger that works on a regular 110 outlet. I've seen advertisements that offer 3x faster charging than the stock charger the Leaf comes with???

I am not an electrician. Any talk of blah blah kv6.0 -something-something, does not help. In simplest terms, I have a standard household plug in my garage I use now, with the charging cable that came with the Leaf. I just want the car to charge faster without having to install another plug/breaker.
Thanks!
 
Simply put, a 120 volt outlet does not provide enough power for L-2 charging. If it is a 120 volt, 20 amp outlet (most are 15 amps) then the car can charge about 50% faster with the right charging able. For level 2 charging, you need at least 208 volts.
 
Belskinator said:
I have a 2016 Nissan Leaf S. My simple question is - Is there a level 2 charger that works on a regular 110 outlet. I've seen advertisements that offer 3x faster charging than the stock charger the Leaf comes with???

I am not an electrician. Any talk of blah blah kv6.0 -something-something, does not help. In simplest terms, I have a standard household plug in my garage I use now, with the charging cable that came with the Leaf. I just want the car to charge faster without having to install another plug/breaker.
Thanks!
No. By definition, Level 2 is 208 or 240 volts, while the standard household receptacle (electric dryers or ranges aside) is 120 volts aka Level 1. Three times faster charging refers to Level 2 at a higher amperage - Level 2 alone at the same amperage will double your charge rate.

Some technical info is necessary to explain it. Except in the kitchen and maybe the garage, the standard Level 1 (120 volts) dual receptacle is rated at 15 Amps, but charging an EV is considered continuous duty (3 hours or more at a given power), and you are only allowed to pull a maximum of 80% of 15 Amps, i.e. 12 Amps, for that. 120 Volts times 12 Amps = 1,440 Watts, or 1.44 kiloWatts (abbreviated kW); the Watt is the unit of power. If you have an EVSE that can operate at 240 Volts at the same 12 amps, then its maximum power is 240 Volts x 12 Amps = 2,880 watts (or 2.88kW). Note that I'm ignoring charging inefficiency and overhead that applies regardless of what charging power you have, which will slightly reduce the power your battery actually receives in all the above cases.

Kitchen and garage dual receptacles may instead be rated (and protected) for 20 Amps, but for charging (remember, continuous duty) only 20 Amps x .8 = 16 Amps is allowed. Most portable EVSEs, the correct name for the 'charging cable' that came with the car, are limited to Level 1 (remember, that's 120 volts) charging at 12 amps, which is the maximum that can be plugged into any dual receptacle without knowing what it's rated for, and prevents the typical homeowner from blowing a fuse/popping a breaker and/or starting a fire. More recent LEAFs apparently come with a dual 120V and 240V @ 12 Amp EVSE, but you still need a 240V circuit to supply it for the higher voltage. You can't get 240 volts out of a standard 120 Volt household receptacle, the one in every wall.

Summing up, the standard household receptacle (not plug, that's on the end of the cord) in your garage will not safely allow you to charge any faster than 120 volts at 12 Amps. There are some EVSEs that may allow you to charge at 120 Volts at 16 Amps on a 20 amp circuit, but unless you're certain that your garage receptacle is a 20 amp type on a 20 Amp circuit, I wouldn't risk it - the 20 Amp EVSE should have a different plug than standard in any case.

AFAIK, the portable EVSE that comes with the LEAF is limited to 12 Amps for Level 1 charging, so if you want to charge faster, you'll have to have a 240 Volt circuit installed to your garage and buy a 240 Volt EVSE*, or you can use the dryer circuit if that's in the garage and the dryer's electrically heated instead of using natural gas. the latter requires that you switch plugs every time you want to dry or charge, unless you install another receptacle on the same circuit, with a switch that only allows one receptacle to be used at a time.

Hope that helps.

*IIRR, more recent LEAFs come with a dual 120/240V portable EVSE.
 
The simplest answer is that you are stuck with the charging speeds you currently have if you are not willing to upgrade the circuit.
The adverts you read presume a better circuit.
 
Belskinator said:
I have a 2016 Nissan Leaf S. My simple question is - Is there a level 2 charger that works on a regular 110 outlet. I've seen advertisements that offer 3x faster charging than the stock charger the Leaf comes with???

I am not an electrician. Any talk of blah blah kv6.0 -something-something, does not help. In simplest terms, I have a standard household plug in my garage I use now, with the charging cable that came with the Leaf. I just want the car to charge faster without having to install another plug/breaker.
Thanks!

Level 2, by definition, uses 208-240V.
 
SageBrush said:
The simplest answer is that you are stuck with the charging speeds you currently have if you are not willing to upgrade the circuit.
The adverts you read presume a better circuit.

This is essentially true, with one exception: if you have, say, an outdoor-rated outlet that is alone on its circuit (this doesn't usually happen), an electrician can change the way that it is wired to provide 240 volts at the same amperage, doubling the available power for charging. There would then be no white (neutral) wire, which isn't needed for an EVSE anyway. This would require a hardwired connection, though, and a charging station rated for only 12 amps. It's only worth pursuing if a physical reason exists that prevents replacement of the existing cable with 240 volt cable.
 
LeftieBiker said:
SageBrush said:
replacement of the existing cable with 240 volt cable.
Why is that ? I thought 240v is just 120v * 2. Or did you mean a 4 wire run ?
------------
OP already excluded a change in breakers so I think he is asking if more power can be drawn from his current circuit by buying a higher draw EVSE. To you and me that translates into "can I increase my amperage (safely) with a higher rated EVSE" and the answer is likely no. It is possible that his EVSE is set to pull 12 Amps and the circuit and breakers are spec'd for 16 Amps continuous but that would require a check that OP is not the right person to do, and it would require understanding and compliance with use of the outlet as a dedicated circuit.

So while not entirely technically accurate, I'll leave my earlier statement as written.
 
LeftieBiker wrote:

SageBrush wrote:
replacement of the existing cable with 240 volt cable.


Why is that ? I thought 240v is just 120v * 2. Or did you mean a 4 wire run ?

240 volt cable has three wires (two Hots, one neutral) plus the bare ground wire. Devices that don't use Neutral are uncommon enough that you generally either cap the Neutral in a hardwired EVSE installation, or install a 4 wire outlet that can be used by other devices, with the Neutral unused by the EVSE plug. That way the whole cable doesn't have to be replaced if the EVSE is replaced with something that needs a Neutral. If you know that only an EVSE will ever occupy that circuit, then you can use two wire (plus ground) cable of the correct gauge.
 
The homes in our town house community have a soffit plug on a switch 120 volts. On a dedicated 15 amp breaker. They are used for Christmas lights. These can be converted to a 240 bolt plug by an electrician without running a new line. The breaker needs to be changed to a double pole in the service panel and the switch needs to be bypassed.

Then you need to buy a 240 volt 12 amp EVSE like the clipoer creek LCS 15 The electrician and breaker will cost you around 150 bucks and the clipper creek around 379.

This will double your existing charge rate plus a little bit due to efficiencies.
 
Belskinator said:
... I've seen advertisements that offer 3x faster charging than the stock charger the Leaf comes with???
...
Thanks!
Note: The cord that sits between the wall and the car is not technically a charger. The actual charger is inside the car. The cord delivers the same AC power that comes out of the wall, the charger inside the car converts the power to DC and the right voltage to charge the battery. It gets too confusing to refer to both of them as "chargers" so we call the cord an "EVSE".

What you've seen advertised are either mods to the standard EVSE to plug into a 240v (L2) outlet, or inexpensive 240v EVSEs. Because of overhead in the charging system in the car, a 16a 240v circuit can charge the battery at nearly 3 times the rate that a 15a 120v circuit can and that's what they're referencing.

There's no magic, your standard EVSE that comes with the car already gets the maximum power available from a standard 120v plug and if you want to do better, you have upgrade the circuit.
 
Belskinator said:
I just want the car to charge faster without having to install another plug/breaker.
Thanks!
The existing outlet will only provide so much power.

Example: plug in a hairdryer on high and it works. Plug in 3 and the breaker trips. You just will not ever get 3x out of that connector.
You need to pull wire to get more power.

L1- 120 volts
L2- 208-240 volts
L3- 500+ volts DC
 
smkettner said:
Belskinator said:
I just want the car to charge faster without having to install another plug/breaker.
Thanks!
The existing outlet will only provide so much power.

Example: plug in a hairdryer on high and it works. Plug in 3 and the breaker trips. You just will not ever get 3x out of that connector.
You need to pull wire to get more power.

L1- 120 volts
L2- 208-240 volts
L3- 500+ volts DC

If he has a garage or outside circuit that he is willing to give up (including all the receptacles on that circuit except the one he intends to use with the L2 EVSE) he can repurpose a 120 volt 15 amp plug to a 240 volt 15 amp circuit. He can then put a 12 amp 240 volt circuit on that circuit by changing the breaker to double pole 240 volt breaker. No wire pull needed. Recommend using an electrician. He will more than double his charging rate.
 
smkettner said:
Not many residences have a random dedicated connection in the garage or outside.
Would need to convert the entire string or pull wire.

Exactly.

However, at least around here, many residences have a single dedicated soffit plug on a switch for Christmas lights. This has worked for a few folks we know. Still kinda slow, but more than twice as fast as a 120 volt connection.
 
webeleafowners said:
smkettner said:
Belskinator said:
I just want the car to charge faster without having to install another plug/breaker.
Thanks!
The existing outlet will only provide so much power.

Example: plug in a hairdryer on high and it works. Plug in 3 and the breaker trips. You just will not ever get 3x out of that connector.
You need to pull wire to get more power.

L1- 120 volts
L2- 208-240 volts
L3- 500+ volts DC

If he has a garage or outside circuit that he is willing to give up (including all the receptacles on that circuit except the one he intends to use with the L2 EVSE) he can repurpose a 120 volt 15 amp plug to a 240 volt 15 amp circuit. He can then put a 12 amp 240 volt circuit on that circuit by changing the breaker to double pole 240 volt breaker. No wire pull needed. Recommend using an electrician. He will more than double his charging rate.
Assuming that the wire is Romex or similar. If it's an older (ca. 1940s or before) house he may have knob and tube wiring without a ground, i.e. just two wires. And glass fuses instead of breakers. Bottom line, if the OP wants to get faster charging, they need an electrician, because they've stated they aren't qualified.
 
I wouldn't suggest using knob & tube wiring for an EVSE. It's a pretty safe design (wide separation between the two wires) but it's all so old now that the cloth or natural rubber insulation is falling off of it - or already off. Yes, we should have made it more clear that consultation with an electrician is needed.
 
The Leaf's charger does not care about voltage it is just about current. It does comply with the J1772 specs. Thus the supplied 12A unit works at 12A.

If you have an EVSE that is dual voltage you can charge up to the max. We have a member here that does just that. I carry a dual voltage OpenEVSE with me. The tables are un-modified so L1 is up to 16A and L2 is 16A. Stock OpenEVSE is J1772 compliant..

I tried both my Leaf SL and my VW golf and both violated the L1 spec.

I forced my OpenEVSE to the L2 settings to try this. THe EVSE only cares about setting the pilot. Open's L1 & L2 displays are purely cosmetic . I have no interest in L1 charging. If I did I would modify the L1 table to allow more current. I charge at 240VAC.

On my list of things to test is my IoniQ.
 
Because the Leaf follows the J1772 spec you could safely set the EVSE to 16A on a 20A circuit. Most outlets are only rated at 15A but they have a lot of wiggle room. A 20A outlet is the same but with an extra slot.

Our member uses a 30A circuit like at a truck stop.
 
GlennD said:
Because the Leaf follows the J1772 spec you could safely set the EVSE to 16A on a 20A circuit. Most outlets are only rated at 15A but they have a lot of wiggle room. A 20A outlet is the same but with an extra slot.

Our member uses a 30A circuit like at a truck stop.

The issue, IIRC, was the Nissan dual voltage EVSE being rated at 30 amps, requiring a 40 amp circuit that is higher amperage than almost all dryer circuits.
 
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