Bought a 2013 Leaf With Low Capacity

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danix

Member
Joined
May 3, 2019
Messages
9
Location
SF Bay Area
I've had a Volt, Fiat 500e, currently have an I3, and when I saw this Leaf for sale at a local estate sale, I bought it.
Since its purchase by the former owner in 2013, it has covered a whopping 1000 miles. I think the front tires are still original based on the DOT codes and rears have been replaced.

It's most likely going to be for my younger daughter who currently "borrows" my I3. Funny though, neither daughter is excited by the prospect of a Leaf. Kids...

Unlike those other cars, I know very little about the Leaf so advice is appreciated (and yes I will search).

  • 2013 Leaf SL
    30k miles
    Has bose, heated steering wheel and seats, navigation.
    16" wheels

Was last sold as a CPO car in 2013, I'm trying to get that warranty transferred to me (but wondering what specifically on a Leaf is covered)
I read about Leafspy, and here is the info I pulled. Help interpreting it would be appreciated.

47720055222_4bcbb2abc4.jpg


Thanks in advance.
 
Two things: first, this is an early build 2013, with the older battery chemistry, and the battery is in terrible shape. 61% of the original capacity remains. Your available range is maybe 30 miles. I hope that it wasn't expensive, and that your range needs are small... There is one version of the CPO warranty that may cover the battery. IF you can get it transferred, please post what it says about the drive ("traction") battery.

Second, this topic is too general and similar to other topics. How about changing the title in your first post to something like "Bought a 2013 Leaf With Low Capacity" so I can leave it as-is otherwise?
 
61% SOH should comfortably provide 35 miles range, up to 45 if you're driving like grandpa. 20-25 miles in the winter with the heat on.

The car is exclusively local driving.

Rely heavily on the heated seats and steering wheel in the winter. They use way less power than the main heater.

Can be a very fun to drive short range car. We saved $800 last year in gas on ours (57 battery health) just using it to go to the grocery store and events, etc.

The range estimator is highly inaccurate at that battery health. It will massively overestimate range until you start driving. Don't be alarmed when you lose 20 miles in the first 5 miles. The drop-off will slow down.

A new battery would make that a very nice car.
 
Yes, the battery capacity is down quite a bit--probably 60% to 65% of original. Since the car has not been driven much, the capacity may improve slightly with frequent use. A mix of highway and city driving will probably cover 30 miles or so before the first low battery warning (except in really cold temperatures). I normally get 5-10 miles after LBW before the very low battery warning (VLBW) and then another 5-10 miles if needed to get home. Leaf Spy displays remaining capacity until the end, but the Nissan dash displays go to--- at VLBW. If it has not already been done, a cellular modem 3G upgrade is needed to make remote access functional (along with an EV Connect account with Nissan). Check the tires carefully for sidewall cracking or other damage/deterioration not related to miles. Also, check the age and condition of the 12-volt battery because the LEAF's control modules can do really bizarre things and prevent driving if the battery voltage is too low. Enjoy the car, it should be good for quite a few miles of use (other than limited traction battery capacity).
 
Renamed the thread per request.

35 miles? That's ridiculous. Hmm, that's not what I was hoping to hear.

The car is a CPO car with warranty through 4/6/2020 (original in service date was 4/6/13).
Warranty is Nissan "Limited Warranty" with a $50 per visit deductible.
Model on the form says Leaf S but I am pretty sure this is an SL.
It's not clear if CPO covers the EV components or not.

However... going through paperwork, the previous owner paid $1895 for another warranty:
Service Contract with Roadside Security+ Gold Preferred $0 per visit
Expiration 4/6/2020, or 100k miles
Exclusions says "Nissan Electric Vehicle lithium-ion battery" is excluded but covered by 8yr/100k original warranty.
And "Any component of an electric vehicle is not covered by this VSC".

So, I've got potentially 3 warranties here: original EV battery warranty, Nissan CPO warranty, and Security+Gold.

Will ANY of these get me a new battery?

I paid $6000 for the car and thought I got a good deal. The estate sale company told me the battery was "at 75%" but I think they were just looking at the dash indicator.
 
$6k isn't terrible for an SL or loaded SV with low capacity. Does it have a solar panel on the roof? Leather interior? That's an SL. Cloth seats and a Navigation/infotainment console make it an SV, and no Nav plus steel wheels with wheel covers would make it an S. A Bose stereo with subwoofer in the rear and 4 cameras on the outside of the car would indicate the Premium Package, which is very nice.

As quoted, I don't think the warranties will help you, but I'll look into that further. Does any of the paperwork say "Gold Preferred"?
 
danix said:
Was last sold as a CPO car in 2013, I'm trying to get that warranty transferred to me (but wondering what specifically on a Leaf is covered)
Nissan's official CPO warranty provides very little: https://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/nissan-plugs-electric-leaf-into-certified-pre-owned-vehicles-program.

Agreed that your battery is in terrible shape. FWIW, my 5/2013 '13 used Leaf (bought it in July 2015) lost its 1st capacity bar in Nov 2017. I'm still at 11 bars and my SOH is around 82.xx%.
 
danix said:
Model on the form says Leaf S but I am pretty sure this is an SL.
...
I paid $6000 for the car and thought I got a good deal. The estate sale company told me the battery was "at 75%" but I think they were just looking at the dash indicator.
If it doesn't have a black leather interior and the solar panel on the rear spoiler, it's not an SL.

What's the build month on the driver's side door sticker?

If it's an a '13 SL w/premium (which adds the Bose stereo and thus the Bose subwoofer module in the trunk), hmmm... $6K isn't horrible but isn't particularly great either.

How many capacity bars do you have remaining, including the red ones? It's the thinnest ones all the way on the right. http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Scott_3_bars_s.jpg is an example of a fully charged 3 bar loser (9 capacity bars remaining). I'm guessing you have a 7 or 6 capacity bar car. See http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/wiki/battery-d1/#Battery_Temperature_Gauge under Battery Capacity Behavior for a table derived from the '11 service manual. It was removed from service manuals of later Leafs for an unknown reason.
 
What's the build month on the driver's side door sticker?

Do we really even need to ask? Other than to see if it was built in 2012, maybe. If it wasn't built before April of 2013 I'll eat my thickest balaclava.

If the range suffices, as in it's just an 'around town' car, then it isn't a terrible deal, especially if it's an SL or optioned SV. It still has warranty coverage for most of the other things that typically fail, like the PTC heater and brake unit.
 
LeftieBiker said:
What's the build month on the driver's side door sticker?

Do we really even need to ask? Other than to see if it was built in 2012, maybe. If it wasn't built before April of 2013 I'll eat my thickest balaclava.
Whoops. Sorry. Earlier, I didn't see his post where he said the car's original in-service date was 4/6/13. So, unless the car was bought/leased right near Smyrna, TN, it's unlikely its build month is 4/2013.
 
03/13 build
Has cloth seats
Bose
heated seats and wheel
navigation

Will drive it a bit and figure out what bars you're talking about.
Man, the kids didn't like this car, now I don't either ;)
 
danix said:
03/13 build
Has cloth seats
Bose
heated seats and wheel
navigation

Will drive it a bit and figure out what bars you're talking about.
Man, the kids didn't like this car, now I don't either ;)
Thanks. Just as we suspected. Unfortunately, it seems that '13 Leafs built before 4/2013 have chemistries as bad '11 and '12 Leafs. Seems like 4/2013 thru model year '14 Leafs have better batteries while model year '15 (lizard pack) is the best we know of, so far.

We are asking about the capacity bars all the way on the right, including the red ones. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=436255#p436255.

If it has cloth seats w/Bose stereo, then it's a '13 SV w/at least the premium package. This is what I have. ('13 SL ONLY came with in black leather and included LED auto on/off headlights, fog lights and CHAdeMO inlet.)

Does it have the CHAdeMO inlet (larger inlet to the left of the J1772 inlet)? If yes, then it it's a '13 SV w/premium and LED + quick chart port package. I leased one of those before.

No CHAdeMO inlet visual aid at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=433513#p433513.
With CHAdeMO visual aid at http://sfbayleafs.org/commentary/2013/09/2013-vs-2011-nissan-leaf-whats-new-whats-gone-whats-changed/ under "Charging port hatch with remote keyfob release and light, option to lock the plug in place".

The specs tab at https://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2013-nissan-leaf-press-kit outlines the trim levels and available packages.
 
danix said:
03/13 build
Has cloth seats
Bose
heated seats and wheel
navigation

Will drive it a bit and figure out what bars you're talking about.
Man, the kids didn't like this car, now I don't either ;)

This doesn't have to be terrible news. You have a well-equipped car (try out the Around View cameras by pressing the "Camera" button on the infotainment console when stopped or moving slowly) that drives very well, so if the range meets or exceeds your needs, just enjoy it despite our Doom & Gloom. I would rather have a loaded SV than an SL, too.
 
Agreed that it's still a very fun car to drive and a good gas saver.

I also think you did fine. I paid $5500 for my 2011 a year ago, and yours has more features, a nearly full warranty, and is a year newer. Assuming you do a lot of local driving, it could save you a lot of money, and it's a cheap and safe car if your kids have an accident while driving.

Where in the country are you located?
 
If you live in a hot State, best to resell or trade in for a brand with liquid battery cooling (not Nissan). It will continue to degrade between 1-2% per month. A new battery will cost about $8,500 installed. Wishing you better luck...
 
Yes, OP, can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

Agree with Evoforce.
 
While the OP should sell the car if it doesn't meet his needs, my 2011 went 5k miles last year and lost 2% battery capacity (57->55% SOH). If you don't live in a hot climate and you charge to 80%, the battery loss is manageable and nowhere near 1-2% a month.

Accident rates for teenage drivers are also high. A 2011 Leaf is massively safer in an accident than a 2000s car. For a cheap safe local driver, the Leaf really can't be beat.

If in a hot climate (Phoenix, etc), agree with evoforce.
 
I'm in the SF Bay Area.

Last night I charged fully using my home L2 charger.
Today, drove out to visit my sister in Oakland. I covered 41 miles.
I still don't understand the bars, will have to read up on it (I get the concept, it's just not intuitive. What I thought were the bars including the red shows 8 bars, but it's the same now as when I left).

Arrived home at 12% (found a switch on the left that gives this more useful metric).

Yes, I have a DC fast charging port along with the other options. Does sound like the premium package.

According to what I read, capacity was guaranteed to 60 months and 60 miles. From April 2013 to April 2019 is 72 months, so I'm over.
I'm hoping Nissan will do something for me but who knows, I doubt it.

Yeah, I regret this purchase. On paper it's safe, spacious, not as fast as my I3 (a good thing as the 17 year old has a heavy foot).
But with this limited range, the car is almost unusable. My 500e had a range of 80 miles and my I3 will go 120.
There are plenty of 500e out there for $6-7k and their battery doesn't degrade like this thing.
 
danix said:
Today, drove out to visit my sister in Oakland. I covered 41 miles.
I still don't understand the bars, will have to read up on it (I get the concept, it's just not intuitive. What I thought were the bars including the red shows 8 bars, but it's the same now as when I left).
The capacity bars represent sort of how large your "fuel tank" is. I wouldn't expect them to have changed during a drive. The used '13 Leaf I have now had all 12 capacity bars from the day it was manufactured in late 5/2013 until Nov 2017. In Nov 2017, it went to 11 bars (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=511915#p511915) and still has 11 bars today.

The 12 bars to its left labeled "state of charge" at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=436255#p436255 are the "fuel bars" that go up as you charge and down as you discharge. The silly number that reads 86 miles in that pic is what we call the guess-o-meter (GOM).
danix said:
Arrived home at 12% (found a switch on the left that gives this more useful metric).
Yes it is. '11 and '12 Leafs didn't have that. It first appeared on '13 Leafs after pleas w/the Chief Vehicle Engineer (Kadota-san), Mark Perry, a Nissan quality guy and a whole bunch of Nissan engineers in the room in Dec 2011 at Google. I was there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS3vL0fLVpc may help.
danix said:
Yes, I have a DC fast charging port along with the other options. Does sound like the premium package.
Premium adds Bose stereo and the 4 camera Around View Monitor w/the camera button on the bezel. QC + LED package adds quick charge (CHAdeMO) inlet, fog lights and auto on/off LED headlights instead of the crap halogens (w/o auto).
danix said:
According to what I read, capacity was guaranteed to 60 months and 60 miles. From April 2013 to April 2019 is 72 months, so I'm over.
I'm hoping Nissan will do something for me but who knows, I doubt it.
No. The capacity warranty is for 60 months/60K miles, whichever comes first. If the battery falls below 9 bars before expiration, you'll receive a replacement. And yes, you're past it by time.

You are correct in your doubts. Nissan was doing an unannounced YMMV goodwill program where they'd sometimes pay for part to most of the replacement battery cost for those past capacity warranty and pleaded their case. They cut that off long ago, also w/o warning.
danix said:
Yeah, I regret this purchase. On paper it's safe, spacious, not as fast as my I3 (a good thing as the 17 year old has a heavy foot).
But with this limited range, the car is almost unusable. My 500e had a range of 80 miles and my I3 will go 120.
There are plenty of 500e out there for $6-7k and their battery doesn't degrade like this thing.
:( I'd have sold you my 11 bar '13 SV w/premium (no CHAdeMO and no LED lights) but 64K miles for $6500. Leaf Spy SOH is at 82.xx%.

I don't know if the 17 year old you mention is male or female but if the former, there's the side benefit below... ;)
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2429&p=531280#p531280
 
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