LeftieBiker
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed May 08, 2019 12:01 am

Those who do not own the Tesla product, the negative they say, should carry no weight whatsoever.

Tesla is a great brand. Some, including the stubborn, jealous, shorts, competitors etc, are going to hate but it is hard not to push back on their nonsense. It can get tiresome to continue, over and over, to have to correct exaggerated, misleading, or outright false information.


Do you understand that the above reads more like proselytizing than like rational support for your preferred brand? People give more weight to calm opinions that include the negatives than to the above kind of prose...
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cwerdna
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed May 08, 2019 12:06 am

^^^
Indeed. Seems to match some of what https://www.gamesradar.com/psychology-f ... fessional/ says and some of the behavior I've observed (and sometimes been on the receiving end of) on TMC. For those who haven't looked, these are the headings:
Rabid brand loyalty
The sense of entitlement
The disregarding of any contrary opinion
Stubborn belief in a brand, to the point of denial
Knee-jerk judgements based on little to no evidence
Personal attacks on the deliverers of bad news

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lorenfb
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed May 08, 2019 4:53 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Those who do not own the Tesla product, the negative they say, should carry no weight whatsoever.

Tesla is a great brand. Some, including the stubborn, jealous, shorts, competitors etc, are going to hate but it is hard not to push back on their nonsense. It can get tiresome to continue, over and over, to have to correct exaggerated, misleading, or outright false information.


Do you understand that the above reads more like proselytizing than like rational support for your preferred brand? People give more weight to calm opinions that include the negatives than to the above kind of prose...


Glad you commented, as I wanted to post but hesitated. Yes, it's way over the top!
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed May 08, 2019 7:18 am

Count me as one more who sees no legitimate reason whatsoever for banning lorenfb.
+1 also. He posts things that I think are often hyperbole, but I do not see any reason for him to be banned from this forum. That would be an injustice. (and frankly it should never have even been brought up)

Tesla is a great brand.
I don't agree with this. I think they make great some great cars. But I don't think they have their priorities straight, and that leads to them having failures to execute cleanly. I think it's amazing that they've managed to get this far in spite of their mistakes.

It can get tiresome to continue, over and over, to have to correct exaggerated, misleading, or outright false information.
This I agree with.
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lorenfb
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed May 08, 2019 7:24 am

jlv wrote:
It can get tiresome to continue, over and over, to have to correct exaggerated, misleading, or outright false information.
This I agree with.


Your reference, please? Haven't seen any supported challenges from you.

But we all know that 12/18 US deliveries were higher than normal because of people getting cars before the tax credit halved - deliveries were up 1/3 up over the prior month across the board. And we all know that starting in January deliveries started to Europe.

So to point to the higher year-end numbers as the base and then to point to the Q1 numbers and say "oh look, sales are down" is just distorting the trend.

Frankly, I expect a similar surge in June deliveries as the tax credit halves again.



If this is one of them, then it's just your opinion versus mine based on the data. So we need the results of Q2 for a better perspective.
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Leaf15
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed May 08, 2019 2:51 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:Wow. This is the best you've got? So, because someone graduates with an econ and physics degree, they can't be an engineer, despite applying scientific laws towards the development of solutions to problem?
F@ck Yeah! Which part you did not get? Musk is not an engineer, period. He have to go to school and pass all the exams to be one. And after it is all done, he would be only a bachelor - the lowest denominator in the profession. You can not buy it with money or wealthy parents (not after the recent scandal with fake diplomas). Why do not you go and apply for an engineer position with degree in economics or physics, let us know how it went. Many start with engineering in colleges thinking they are going to make it, but then end up with degrees in business management, marketing, economics and philosophy and with lowest degree in physics he could be an assistant for real physicist in the lab, lol.
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed May 08, 2019 3:51 pm

That’s nonsense. I know many people that have never done a single day of education for engineering and work for companies in these roles. Many companies do not post jobs without those formal requirements but they do hire and employ.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed May 08, 2019 4:53 pm

Leaf15 wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:Wow. This is the best you've got? So, because someone graduates with an econ and physics degree, they can't be an engineer, despite applying scientific laws towards the development of solutions to problem?
F@ck Yeah! Which part you did not get? Musk is not an engineer, period. He have to go to school and pass all the exams to be one. And after it is all done, he would be only a bachelor - the lowest denominator in the profession. You can not buy it with money or wealthy parents (not after the recent scandal with fake diplomas). Why do not you go and apply for an engineer position with degree in economics or physics, let us know how it went. Many start with engineering in colleges thinking they are going to make it, but then end up with degrees in business management, marketing, economics and philosophy and with lowest degree in physics he could be an assistant for real physicist in the lab, lol.


I don't know if you're being sarcastic or serious, but here ya go: https://interestingengineering.com/can- ... ing-degree

Or just google for it to find a number of similiar opinions.

As a diploma'd engineer, I know a few other "engineers" who clearly don't deserve the title, and a few shade-tree mechanics who do. So I totally am on the same page about the "fake diplomas", but I think you don't fully understand what you've written.

Engineering is what a person does, and being an engineer is a reflection of how that person approaches things. For that reason alone, there are many people in engineering roles, who don't have a degree in engineering. Likewise, there are many with a degree (legitimate ones like my uncle), but aren't employed as engineers, because they're not up to the task.

People like you, who put so much weight on a "diploma", are why the paid school admissions scandal are even possible. Stop giving weight to those flimsy sheets of paper, and start judging people by their actions. You can't hold a "degree" in high esteem, and then denigrate those people who actually hold one in the next breath. There are plenty who worked hard for their engineering degrees (studying long hours to pass the exams), only to learn that applying what they've learned into real life was much harder than they thought.

After having said all this, I still don't get why you have a beef with my labeling Musk an engineer? He never bought his way to an engineering degree, nor did he pretend to work towards one, like the Stanford scandal. He earned a physics degree @ U.Penn, and was on his way to Stanford to earn an advanced physics degree when he dropped out. Physics is the basis for almost all engineering. And despite what his dad [who's a compulsive liar, and fathered a child with his stepdaughter - knew her when she was 4 years old] claims, Elon didn't receive help from his parents to pay for school and living expenses. So why the beef?
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Leaf15
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed May 08, 2019 7:06 pm

I have no beef with Musk. He had all the opportunities to become an engineer, but he chose something else, so he needs to live with it and try not to diminish the meaning of engineer profession by marginalizing it with shade-tree mechanics or smart dudes who figured how to assemble a few IKEA furniture pieces following instruction. It takes a lot more than smarty pants to be one. As you said, even the ones who are on the paper engineers not the real ones because it takes a lot to be a real engineer. He did not rise above entry level even in fields he chose. That pretty much sums up his drive to be the best. He was good salesman so far and managed to be in the right place in the right time a few times, but it is showing some cracks now.
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Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed May 08, 2019 10:43 pm

Leaf15 wrote:I have no beef with Musk. He had all the opportunities to become an engineer, but he chose something else, so he needs to live with it and try not to diminish the meaning of engineer profession by marginalizing it with shade-tree mechanics or smart dudes who figured how to assemble a few IKEA furniture pieces following instruction. It takes a lot more than smarty pants to be one. As you said, even the ones who are on the paper engineers not the real ones because it takes a lot to be a real engineer. He did not rise above entry level even in fields he chose. That pretty much sums up his drive to be the best. He was good salesman so far and managed to be in the right place in the right time a few times, but it is showing some cracks now.


Again with the obsession with a piece of paper. The fact that you would call someone who has a degree in physics, "a good salesman" and "not an engineer", means you're not one. EVERY engineer will tell you that physics is the foundation of all forms of engineering, except for software engineering. And then to demean the man for "not rising above entry level" without knowing how he started Zip2, nor X.com? You think a doctorate degree automatically makes a person greater than a high-school graduate in their field?! Look up Bill Gates versus Donald Trump for economics. Look up Burt Rutan versus any Ph.d in aerospace engineering? You look down at a person, just because of a piece of paper without knowing anything about that person. Shame on you and the pompous soapbox you're standing on.
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