datascileafguy
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Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 2:45 am
Delivery Date: 14 May 2019

Feedback on Leafspy report - Should I buy this?

Tue May 14, 2019 3:03 am

**Edit** I've realised this is in the wrong forum and have attempted to delete but do not have permissions to delete my own post! Can this be moved to the correct forum for buying advice please mods?**

Hey Leaf-frendos!

Short-time lurker, first-time poster.

Am about to take the leap into leaf ownership, and have been absorbing *all* of the info around these cool little cars. I'm located in NZ, so the majority of Leafs here are Japanese imports, and our selection is not exhaustive.

I'm looking for feedback and advice on the below Leafspy report. This car is a bargain - I think the dealer is very inexperienced, as they are listing 10 Leafs only, and ALL trim models/battery level and years (from 2011/2012/2013) Leafs (Leaves?) at the same list price. This particular one is a 2013 24G Gen 2 with 10SRS and 11 bars, with 23,000KM, Japanese head unit and Dash cluster. I've viewed the vehicle, it's in great condition, has slight bit of rust on the drivers side steering column bolt (if that's what its called? the common rust area) but should be cleanable. They include OEM NZ Charger and dash cluster conversion in the on road costs. I would get another dealer to install another carwings head unit with NZ FM band and English language available. I would also be looking to replace the stock speakers.

The catch here seems to be that the QC count would indicate this has been QC every 7KM. A rival dealer warned me that this could be done before importing to temporarily boost the SOH, by ramming through a whole bunch of QCs. I can't find much (read - basically none) info about this online so it seems like sales BS to me. Is it more likely that a Japanese owner living in an apartment only had access to quick charge station and used a quick charge every 1.5 days in the 2136 days since it was manufactured?

So I thought I would come to the real experts, who aren't invested in selling their more expensive and lower SOH leafs to me while fearmongering. What say thee, interwebs?

Any thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks all and I look forward to joining the overly-detailed ranks of Leafhood soon!

**Edit** The dealer of the vehicle below is also trying to hard-sell me on mechanical breakdown insurance as battery protection, which I also call BS on for a vehicle that has travelled as low KMs and has as high SoH as below. I think I should save the MBI costs for a rainy day, or a tire replacement. Thoughts on this get bonus points, but all signs would point to MBI being a con for EVs.

Image

LeftieBiker
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Re: Feedback on Leafspy report - Should I buy this?

Tue May 14, 2019 4:19 am

That is the flattest cell voltage histogram I've seen yet - I assume it's that gigantic number of QCs. No bad cells, anyway! This kind of constant QC charging is new territory for us. My guess on how to proceed would be to take another reading on another day, and assuming no QCs in the interim, watch for a drop in SOH. The Hx is about six points lower, which could mean the SOH is really lower, or could mean nothing at all. If you can get the dealer to write a "No bar loss for 90 days" clause into the sales contract, that would be good.

I can move the post to the appropriate forum, I think.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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SalisburySam
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Re: Feedback on Leafspy report - Should I buy this?

Tue May 14, 2019 5:42 am

Agree with @LeftieBiker...flattest battery voltage I’ve seen. My 2012 looks nowhere near that flat after 7 years, and it never did even new. Some thoughts:

MBI - unless it has a special and specific clause regarding battery capacity (I doubt that it does), there is likely no protection whatever for this. There are a lot of mechanical components in a LEAF as in all cars, like suspensions, steering linkages, wheels, brakes, and so on. If these are covered the MBI may be of some value but any coverage for ICE or ICE-specific transmissions is money thrown away. In general I call shenanigans on MBI’s but definitely so on an EV. In fairness, I’ve not read it nor priced it so that could be false, but I don’t think so.

To answer the question of whether to buy or not, that is a value judgment based on your desire for the car and its limitations, against the price and other costs you’ll likely incur. In most of the US, the 2011-to-early-2013 LEAFs with the original 24Kwh fast-depreciating battery are valued between $2k-$6k US dollars, depending upon trim level, options, mileage, and condition. Usually a high number of QC’s is a bad thing (as a comparison datapoint I only have 4 total), but for whatever reason the car you showed defies that thinking. Other than the vehicle costs, you may also be looking at tire replacement, installation of a charging station, EV registration fees (unfortunately a hugely annoying and expensive trend in the US), 12v battery replacement and so on. Only you can determine if there is value to you.

That said, I well and truly enjoy my 2012 SL but recognize its 40-mile range makes it essentially worthless for anything outside short commutes and in-town errands. Going on a trip of even 50 miles is a non-starter, given the need and time to charge even with QC’s which are not yet common in my part of the US. Please let us know what you decide, and a hearty welcome to this forum!
Nissan 2012 LEAF SL, 13,500 miles, 9 bars, 70.4% SOH, 46.19 Ahr

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datascileafguy
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Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 2:45 am
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Re: Feedback on Leafspy report - Should I buy this?

Tue May 14, 2019 1:55 pm

Thanks guys.

G Trim, as this model is, is the highest spec - B mode regen, cruise control, 10 SRS airbags, solar panel trickle charge.

This car is coming in at $14K NZD which is low here - anything else with this trim and SOH is easily $17/18K NZD - hence why this is a great deal if the battery is not KAPUT.

I'll pick up an OBDII module and give the vehicle a test myself - this reading was taken at the time of import to NZ.

Will keep y'all updated, and thanks for the warm welcome!

Titanium48
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Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: Feedback on Leafspy report - Should I buy this?

Tue May 14, 2019 3:43 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:That is the flattest cell voltage histogram I've seen yet - I assume it's that gigantic number of QCs. No bad cells, anyway!


It just looks exceptionally flat because it is on the 800 mV scale. Leafspy is reporting a 16 mV cell voltage variance.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Feedback on Leafspy report - Should I buy this?

Tue May 14, 2019 3:48 pm

Titanium48 wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:That is the flattest cell voltage histogram I've seen yet - I assume it's that gigantic number of QCs. No bad cells, anyway!


It just looks exceptionally flat because it is on the 800 mV scale. Leafspy is reporting a 16 mV cell voltage variance.


Good catch. Still a well-balanced pack, though.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Lothsahn
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Re: Feedback on Leafspy report - Should I buy this?

Tue May 14, 2019 4:53 pm

When in 2013 was this built? In the US, March and earlier had the old bad chemistry.

If this has the newer chemistry, it might be okay, but that number of quick charges is... Very high.

Can you get the car and test drive it from full to empty to see the range? That would be the real answer. You should get around 40-50 miles at 70mph with an 80% battery. The speed is important. 55mph and it'll be more like 55-60 miles.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

LeftieBiker
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Re: Feedback on Leafspy report - Should I buy this?

Tue May 14, 2019 5:11 pm

When in 2013 was this built? In the US, March and earlier had the old bad chemistry.


This remains an open question for both Japanese-built and British-built Leafs. It may have been a case of the Smyrna TN plant getting leftover cells that weren't shipped anywhere else. If the above car has really only lost one bar then it is almost certainly the newer chemistry.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

datascileafguy
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 2:45 am
Delivery Date: 14 May 2019

Re: Feedback on Leafspy report - Should I buy this?

Sat May 18, 2019 5:17 pm

Hey all,

Have had the leaf for a day and a half, and have captured leafspy reports. I ran the battery down to VLBW and it showed that 2 cells are weak. I've now had it charging overnight and after the 3 charging lights turned off left it for about 5 hours to balance.

Today I'll take it for another long drive and see if the same cells show up as weak. But here are the screen caps to start with:

1. Battery report taken while car was on shop floor, before I drove it away from the dealers:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AkiZGHefdLmBMCi1Y9vzZulZe7Ns4fvK

2. Dashboard - before driving - guess the 9999KM is just the tripometer, not sure if its relevant or not:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qKkgxNNCnp-zKVAVhJZ8_gMxODa74xx4

3. Battery cell report and other screens after long drive. ~14% SoC or 5 GIDs left:

While driving, just before stopping: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1--lZ_7dZBXxVmoxjUZGdc4CGoukDmbl6

Stopped: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1D4s293lNPg8Xp1Bq4fFyQxGtbjOgjLhT

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bAbRK5KvNTXxTcZ10q6jt5tbjJz2ge2f

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eoShaJSyN-GXj4vmYa4Cmalw0Hh4QHNw

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1n2WPPK1zIVFNAQR5aBpbmGA64nHorQHV

4. Charged it for 11hours and it was at ~88% SoC. Third dashboard charging indicator was still flashing. Seems like a long time to charge and not be full?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vMHx-AVjin7_TS0YRK34QcGBxiR3No_i

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-1aeC6ONIBS9lt9kmyBH6znzo51Y9KAv

5. To be updated, report after it was left to balance and after i drive it down to VLBW again and see if the same cells show up as weak.



It looks a bit poked to be honest - what are your thoughts or advice? :)

LeftieBiker
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Re: Feedback on Leafspy report - Should I buy this?

Sat May 18, 2019 5:32 pm

I've now had it charging overnight and after the 3 charging lights turned off left it for about 5 hours to balance.


As we understand it, once the three charging indicator lights turn off completely, the pack is as equalized as it will get; that seems to happen while all three lights are lit at once, but not flashing. Unlike, say, my Vectrix, which will turn the charger on and off periodically for a while after it stops to EQ the cells, the Leaf doesn't seem to do that.

As for the imbalance, try a couple of nice, slow, L-1 charges to full EQ (lights all off) and try LeafSpy again. (Don't leave it sitting long at 100% though.) The best way to determine how bad the cells are practically is to do a range test to the VLB warning (or to Turtle mode if you are brave or foolish enough). If you still have good range, don't waste sleep over the difference in cell voltage.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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