AndyH
Well-known member
Texas doesn't have any incentives or rebates - even in their air quality non-attainment areas. There alternate road-tax proposal appears to be all stick and no carrot!GeekEV said:
Taxing EVs for use of the roads
- Thread starter Boomer23
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
davewill
Well-known member
Why does it have to make sense? Anyway, I'd imagine it's a combination of lobbying by Big Oil AND the fact that it's easier to impose something like this while there are only a handful of EV owners to complain about it. If they wait until there are thousands of people who are suddenly being hit with the fee, it will be a lot harder to do. Ultimately, they will have to replace obsolete gas tax monies, but face it, it will be quite some time before any EV tax adds up to serious revenue, and even longer before gasoline sales seriously decline.GeekEV said:
sjfotos
Well-known member
davewill said:
You are confusing the Federal government with the State Of Texas government. If the Texas government were the national government, there would be $0 available for EVs.
sjfotos
Well-known member
hill said:
Sorry trains are tools of socialism.....so I hear anyway.
gasmiser1
Well-known member
--------------------------------
Guess I'd be interested to see how many of these state border commuters would actually be driving EVs.
--------------------------------
Guess I'd be interested to see how many of these state border commuters would actually be driving EVs.
--------------------------------
AndyH
Well-known member
Way to Go Boomer23 and MNL!
The Texas EV tax bill caught the state's Electric Auto Association (EAA) and many chapters by surprise. National EAA just picked-up the story but too late for anyone to get in front of the Texas bill.
After the posts here, I did a bit of quick research, and then put the word out to the local EAA chapter - and it made it to the Austin chapter.
Folks from Austin EAA attended the public hearing to speak against the EV tax bill. Plug-In Texas also opposed the bill. The good news is that the GPS provision was removed before the hearing. Afterward, the sponsors understand that the bill is vague, and it's been moved back to 'pending' status.
The state's EV advocates are on watch now in case this or a similar bill reaches the floor in future.
Thanks Boomer!
Andy
The Texas EV tax bill caught the state's Electric Auto Association (EAA) and many chapters by surprise. National EAA just picked-up the story but too late for anyone to get in front of the Texas bill.
After the posts here, I did a bit of quick research, and then put the word out to the local EAA chapter - and it made it to the Austin chapter.
Folks from Austin EAA attended the public hearing to speak against the EV tax bill. Plug-In Texas also opposed the bill. The good news is that the GPS provision was removed before the hearing. Afterward, the sponsors understand that the bill is vague, and it's been moved back to 'pending' status.
The state's EV advocates are on watch now in case this or a similar bill reaches the floor in future.
Thanks Boomer!
Andy
AndyH
Well-known member
Boomer23
Well-known member
AndyH said:
Wow, thanks for the feedback, Andy. It feels great to be able to make a positive impact. And big congrats on your activism and that of the SA chapter!
It's kind of risky here to start a new thread if the topic has been discussed at all before. I was aware that there was already a thread about taxing EV drivers for use of roads, re the pending WA state legislation. But I thought that this was different and more globally interesting. Glad I took the chance and started the new thread. Otherwise I doubt if would have come to your attention as readily.
AndyH
Well-known member
Let your light shine Amigo! Ya done good! :lol:Boomer23 said:
AndyH
Well-known member
Something came to mind about the road tax debate here and here:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2461
Many states exempt alternative fuels from road taxes - some exempt them from all taxes - for at least some quantities used for non-commercial on-road use. There are exemptions on the federal side as well. These exemptions apply to at least biodiesel, ethanol, and use of waste vegetable oil.
Last time I checked, I could make 400 gallons of biodiesel each year for personal use - that's about 17000 miles of tax-free driving for my VW.
It seems very reasonable that any EV road tax should have a similar mileage exemption provision - and EVs should probably be completely exempted until the states develop a method of tracking annual miles traveled.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2461
Many states exempt alternative fuels from road taxes - some exempt them from all taxes - for at least some quantities used for non-commercial on-road use. There are exemptions on the federal side as well. These exemptions apply to at least biodiesel, ethanol, and use of waste vegetable oil.
Last time I checked, I could make 400 gallons of biodiesel each year for personal use - that's about 17000 miles of tax-free driving for my VW.
It seems very reasonable that any EV road tax should have a similar mileage exemption provision - and EVs should probably be completely exempted until the states develop a method of tracking annual miles traveled.
Yodrak
Well-known member
I think EVs are just an extreme example of a trend that should result in the abandonment of the gas tax for supporting road infrastructure and replacing it with a tax based on mileage and weight. Maybe keep a 'gas' tax of some amount that would really be a carbon tax if we're serious about reducing fossil fuel use.
For the purpose of builing and maintaining highway infrastructure, whether its all electric (negligible for the near future), hybrid (also probably insignificant) or generally higher fuel efficiency standards no matter how achieved for an ICE, gas taxe revenues based on gallons of gas will be in decline in the future unless something is done.
I expect that all states collect vehicle weight information when a vehicle is registered, so that's a known. Each state could decide for itself the best way to collect mileage information - report it at annual or bi-annual registration, at annual or bi-annual collection of personal property tax, via the annual state income tax return, whatever would work best for each particluar state. All states have large revenue departments, each has to have some place where collecting the 'road tax' could be tacked onto an existing collection mechanism.
As for the cross-border issue, it's real but it's just an excuse to not act. The same situation exists already with respect to income taxes, sales taxes, the gas tax itself, and the states have been living with it - people near state borders will do their business in the state where the tax is lower to the extent that it makes sense for them to do so. Nothing new here.
For the purpose of builing and maintaining highway infrastructure, whether its all electric (negligible for the near future), hybrid (also probably insignificant) or generally higher fuel efficiency standards no matter how achieved for an ICE, gas taxe revenues based on gallons of gas will be in decline in the future unless something is done.
I expect that all states collect vehicle weight information when a vehicle is registered, so that's a known. Each state could decide for itself the best way to collect mileage information - report it at annual or bi-annual registration, at annual or bi-annual collection of personal property tax, via the annual state income tax return, whatever would work best for each particluar state. All states have large revenue departments, each has to have some place where collecting the 'road tax' could be tacked onto an existing collection mechanism.
As for the cross-border issue, it's real but it's just an excuse to not act. The same situation exists already with respect to income taxes, sales taxes, the gas tax itself, and the states have been living with it - people near state borders will do their business in the state where the tax is lower to the extent that it makes sense for them to do so. Nothing new here.
daniel
Well-known member
At present, road maintenance is paid for my the gas tax. I drive on the roads, but my Xebra uses no gas. It's only right that I should help pay for the roads. Exactly how this is done is a matter for discussion. Miles times weight sounds like a good scheme to me. I'd advocate eliminating all tax exemptions, but taxing harmful fuels to pay for development of technology and infrastructure for sustainable fuels. I've long advocated a $15 per gallon tax on gas for this purpose.
So I will support any reasonable method of taxing EVs, as long as other alternative fuel vehicles are taxed similarly.
So I will support any reasonable method of taxing EVs, as long as other alternative fuel vehicles are taxed similarly.
Yodrak
Well-known member
OMG!
daniel said:
davewill
Well-known member
Yeah, that's pretty steep, although it's pretty difficult to undervalue the impact fossil fuels have had on the environment. If we had to pay the FULL cost of our cars' fuel, EVs would be jumping into people's garages. Right along with PVs onto our roofs.Yodrak said:
DarkStar
Well-known member
All of your road maintenance? In Oregon, most of our roads are paid through property taxes and state/federal income taxes. Very little of our roads are funded through fuel taxes, but our government talks it up like without fuel taxes there wouldn't be any roads... :?daniel said:
daniel
Well-known member
Pollution, degradation of the environment, and depletion of a NON-RENEWABLE resource is placing a burden on your children which will be many times greater than what you would pay if gas was $19 a gallon ($4 + $15 tax). FAILURE to tax gasoline at a rate commensurate with the damage it causes to our environment and the distortions it causes to our balance of trade is placing a debt burden on future generations for which they will curse our memories and will wish us to burn in hell for all eternity. (Which makes me glad I don't believe in hell!) When we burn gasoline in cars we are stealing from the future. Worse: we are obligating them to an insupportable debt at a crushing rate of interest. Of course, a lot of people think it's a great bargain: We get to consume the resource, and someone else has to pay the cost.davewill said:
Before WWII we used public transportation and lived closer to work. Our present transportation-dependent life style is a CHOICE we have made, which, if not reversed, will condemn future generations to a life style the peasants of medieval Europe would have considered a step down.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
Yodrak said:
the estimated "true cost" of gasoline from foreign oil is said to be 250% of the pump price. that would make it $10 a gallon...not too far away
daniel
Well-known member
We need to charge the extra $5 to fund the change-over to sustainable energy, so we don't leave the next generation burning manure to heat their homes when there's no petroleum left. :?DaveinOlyWA said:
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
daniel said:
i 2nd that... what we need is a few more hundred of these
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.forbes.com%2Ftoddwoody%2F2011%2F05%2F24%2Fgoogle-invests-55-million-in-california-wind-farm%2F&h=346e6
a couple dozen of these
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fhardware.slashdot.org%2Fstory%2F11%2F05%2F24%2F1243238%2FLarge-Scale-247-Solar-Power-Plant-To-Be-Built-in-Nevada%3Futm_source%3Dslashdot%26utm_medium%3Dfacebook&h=346e6
Similar threads
