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RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:47 pm

Mike04 wrote:Service guy says there was no change to the CHAdeMO port, it is the same hardware and software as earlier models. So hopefully this was a one in a million fluke, the stars and moon alligned just right, and not an issue with the new Leaf.
I find that a bit hard to swallow. Then again I find a lot that I hear from Nissan service guys hard to swallow.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Mike04
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:17 am
Delivery Date: 10 Feb 2018

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:03 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
Mike04 wrote:Service guy says there was no change to the CHAdeMO port, it is the same hardware and software as earlier models. So hopefully this was a one in a million fluke, the stars and moon alligned just right, and not an issue with the new Leaf.
I find that a bit hard to swallow. Then again I find a lot that I hear from Nissan service guys hard to swallow.

Yeah, your prbably right about that. I don't think he would know if something changed.

DarthPuppy
Posts: 695
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:45 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:47 pm

I'm inclined to think it is an EVSE issue and not an Leaf issue.

1 - That EVSE had just previously reported a ground fault error message.
2 - What can the car realistically do back to the EVSE that it wouldn't be designed to handle and would be able to do so if it was working properly? The fact that unit died and smoked means the issue is in that unit. The car's systems likely just got in the way of a nasty spike from an improperly grounded and malfunctioning EVSE.

Of course, I'm not an engineer. Any of you have counter points on the above logic?

Of past issues with the Leaf and AV units, etc., were those issues of the car not charging from them? Or were those issues of the unit dying and killing the car too? I would think the former as that could reasonably easily be fixed with a Leaf firmware update. But the later would be more of an EVSE issue. So I think this must be different than that issue.
'13 Leaf SL
'18 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV

DarthPuppy
Posts: 695
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Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:50 pm

Either way, you should be getting either a replacement car from Nissan or a check from the EVSE. I'm afraid it could be a while before the correct party owns up to the responsibility and might require legal action to get.

Have you contacted your insurance company? If you have comprehensive coverage, this might fit under that policy. If so, your best bet might be to collect on the claim and let them collect from either Nissan or the EVSE company.
'13 Leaf SL
'18 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:03 am

DarthPuppy wrote:I'm inclined to think it is an EVSE issue and not an Leaf issue.

1 - That EVSE had just previously reported a ground fault error message.
2 - What can the car realistically do back to the EVSE that it wouldn't be designed to handle and would be able to do so if it was working properly? The fact that unit died and smoked means the issue is in that unit. The car's systems likely just got in the way of a nasty spike from an improperly grounded and malfunctioning EVSE.

Of course, I'm not an engineer. Any of you have counter points on the above logic?

Of past issues with the Leaf and AV units, etc., were those issues of the car not charging from them? Or were those issues of the unit dying and killing the car too? I would think the former as that could reasonably easily be fixed with a Leaf firmware update. But the later would be more of an EVSE issue. So I think this must be different than that issue.
The thread is about a CHAdeMO unit, which means this is not an EVSE, but rather we are talking about a charger. IMO, the potential for damage is much higher with a charger since the power levels of the sources on both sides of the connection are so much higher. As such, any violation of the handshaking which occurs with CHAdeMO can be catastrophic. With an EVSE, typically it is only the on-board charger and the AC wiring to it which are at risk.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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davewill
Posts: 4990
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:04 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, US

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:18 am

DarthPuppy wrote:I'm inclined to think it is an EVSE issue and not an Leaf issue.

1 - That EVSE had just previously reported a ground fault error message.
2 - What can the car realistically do back to the EVSE that it wouldn't be designed to handle and would be able to do so if it was working properly? The fact that unit died and smoked means the issue is in that unit. The car's systems likely just got in the way of a nasty spike from an improperly grounded and malfunctioning EVSE.

Of course, I'm not an engineer. Any of you have counter points on the above logic?

Of past issues with the Leaf and AV units, etc., were those issues of the car not charging from them? Or were those issues of the unit dying and killing the car too? I would think the former as that could reasonably easily be fixed with a Leaf firmware update. But the later would be more of an EVSE issue. So I think this must be different than that issue.


Because it's a charger and not an EVSE, it connects directly to the HV bus of the car. The car could close the contactor on the pack when the voltage from the charger was not close to the voltage of the pack, which could cause a large current to flow.
Last edited by davewill on Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

Mike04
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:17 am
Delivery Date: 10 Feb 2018

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:16 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
DarthPuppy wrote:I'm inclined to think it is an EVSE issue and not an Leaf issue.

1 - That EVSE had just previously reported a ground fault error message.
2 - What can the car realistically do back to the EVSE that it wouldn't be designed to handle and would be able to do so if it was working properly? The fact that unit died and smoked means the issue is in that unit. The car's systems likely just got in the way of a nasty spike from an improperly grounded and malfunctioning EVSE.

Of course, I'm not an engineer. Any of you have counter points on the above logic?

Of past issues with the Leaf and AV units, etc., were those issues of the car not charging from them? Or were those issues of the unit dying and killing the car too? I would think the former as that could reasonably easily be fixed with a Leaf firmware update. But the later would be more of an EVSE issue. So I think this must be different than that issue.
The thread is about a CHAdeMO unit, which means this is not an EVSE, but rather we are talking about a charger. IMO, the potential for damage is much higher with a charger since the power levels of the sources on both sides of the connection are so much higher. As such, any violation of the handshaking which occurs with CHAdeMO can be catastrophic. With an EVSE, typically it is only the on-board charger and the AC wiring to it which are at risk.


This is what they are telling me. It seems it is not so straightforward to determine which is at fault. They sent someome to look at the car this week and I am told he wass not able to determine. A team from the factory in Tennesee is scheduled to come out on Tuesday to look further.

Meanwhile Greenlots has been talking to Nissan and says they are waiting for instructions from Nissan. Nissan tells me my case is going to their committee to decide if I should get a new car from Nissan and they tell me I should hear from them within 15 days.

So I wait.

cwerdna
Posts: 8417
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:23 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
DarthPuppy wrote:I'm inclined to think it is an EVSE issue and not an Leaf issue.

1 - That EVSE had just previously reported a ground fault error message.

...
But the later would be more of an EVSE issue. So I think this must be different than that issue.
The thread is about a CHAdeMO unit, which means this is not an EVSE, but rather we are talking about a charger. IMO, the potential for damage is much higher with a charger since the power levels of the sources on both sides of the connection are so much higher. As such, any violation of the handshaking which occurs with CHAdeMO can be catastrophic. With an EVSE, typically it is only the on-board charger and the AC wiring to it which are at risk.

FWIW, https://web.archive.org/web/20160304054 ... speeds.pdf considers DC chargers to be "EVSE includes an off-board charger".

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:30 am

cwerdna wrote:FWIW, https://web.archive.org/web/20160304054 ... speeds.pdf considers DC chargers to be "EVSE includes an off-board charger".
Interesting. Thanks for the correction. Makes sense, but I've never heard them referred to as an EVSE before.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13338
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:48 am

RegGuheert wrote:
cwerdna wrote:FWIW, https://web.archive.org/web/20160304054 ... speeds.pdf considers DC chargers to be "EVSE includes an off-board charger".
Interesting. Thanks for the correction. Makes sense, but I've never heard them referred to as an EVSE before.



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