juliabee23
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:25 am
Delivery Date: 20 Aug 2018
Location: Tucson, AZ

buying used Leaf- help in Tucson

Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:28 am

Hi all,

My husband and I are looking to buy a used Leaf, and are wondering if someone with more knowledge about how to evaluate a used Leaf could meet us to help us check one out in Tucson. We are on the NW side of town, and are looking at a Leaf around the corner. Would also welcome advice on what to look out for.

Thanks!

Julia

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 11310
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: buying used Leaf- help in Tucson

Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:41 am

Living where you do, you want a 2015 Leaf with 12 capacity bars showing, that came from a cooler climate.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: buying used Leaf- help in Tucson

Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:31 pm

Living where you do, don't buy a LEAF unless you can live with a 40% loss of range, 5 years from now.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

cwerdna
Posts: 9029
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: buying used Leaf- help in Tucson

Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:57 am

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it. (Yes, from this thread we know you're in Tuscon.)

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations? How long do you plan on keeping the car? Will you continue residing in the hot climate while holding onto the Leaf?

Concur w/what Leftie said. As for what alozzy said, yeah, it could get to be that bad even on the "lizard" battery (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168&p=374490) which is the best revision battery we know of, so far. If it were an '11 or '12 on its original battery, losing 40% of capacity in 5 years in hot Arizona is probably an underestimate. It'd be likely even worse.

When the '11 Leaf had only been out ~21 months, Blue494 in Phoenix at https://web.archive.org/web/20160113132 ... p?p=228326 was already 4 capacity bars down (lost somewhere over 30% capacity).

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

juliabee23
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:25 am
Delivery Date: 20 Aug 2018
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: buying used Leaf- help in Tucson

Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:52 am

Thanks, everyone. Sorry for my late reply; I didn't get email notifications that there were replies, and it's my first time on the forum.
Yes, I'll update my profile. We are specifically looking at 2015/16 models with the "lizard battery." So far the 2 2015s that we test drove (appx. 30K miles) had 11 bars. At 11 bar capacity, a used Leaf would more than suit our needs. We have a 2006 Prius that we use as our main car, and need another for commuting/around town only. My hubby works 20 miles away, I work 4 miles away and bike half the time. I will need this 2nd car to pick up and transport kiddos around town, mainly. I read about batteries in hot climates- didn't realize it was that bad. I'm going to meet with a Leaf owner in Tucson tonight who's on the Tucson Electric Vehicle Association, so I plan on picking her brain. Car would be kept in a shaded carport, equipped with basic outlet. There is easy faster charging right around the corner from where we live- library and we are very near a main car dealership drag (Nissan, Chevy, BMW with free chargers). I would need to park it in the sun sometimes while I'm at work. Hubby might be able to charge at his work (they have chargers for golf carts, and he's currently in discussion with HR about whether he could use them).

juliabee23
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:25 am
Delivery Date: 20 Aug 2018
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: buying used Leaf- help in Tucson

Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:54 am

Also-- if it seems like a direction we want to go in after gathering all info-- Carvana car from cooler climate? Do some dealerships far away ship? Have people had good experiences with Carvana? Anyone have a suggestion for an EV that performs better than the Leaf in hot climates? We want to spend 13K max.

juliabee23
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:25 am
Delivery Date: 20 Aug 2018
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: buying used Leaf- help in Tucson

Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:02 am

Ack! Sorry-- want to keep the car for at least 7 years. Don't have any current plans to move.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 11310
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: buying used Leaf- help in Tucson

Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:01 pm

We are specifically looking at 2015/16 models with the "lizard battery."


Only the 2015 Leaf (and a few early 2016 S models, maybe - I forget) have the Lizard battery. In 2016 they went to a 30kwh battery that either loses capacity rapidly or has a firmware programming error - only time will tell for sure which. You want a 2015 that came from a cooler climate. Carvana tends to ship cars from hot climates to cooler ones to sell. I don't know what they do in hot climates.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

goldbrick
Posts: 373
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: buying used Leaf- help in Tucson

Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:06 pm

The 30kWh battery in the 2016 and 2017 models is an unknown since they have only been in existence for a few years. There was some early rapid degradation and Nissan claims that it was caused a battery management programming error. As Leftie says, time will tell.

However, one thing that is for certain is that a 30kWh hour battery can lose 20% of its capacity and be essentially equal to a brand new 24kWh (eg Lizard) battery. The 2016 and 2017 models also come with an 8 year/100,000 mile battery capacity warranty. The warranty is a bit murky since it depends on the firmware in the car indicating that the battery is bad and no one knows how that firmware works but I'd venture that any Leaf that has serious degradation and range loss within its warranty period will get a replacement battery from Nissan.

I mention all this because around here in CO there is very little difference in price between 24kWh cars (eg a 2015) and 30kWh cars (2016 and 2017). While the 2016/2017 cars don't have the history behind them that a 2015 does and the batteries have more power packed into roughly the same volume (and thus may run hotter) than the earlier batteries, you do get a longer warranty and a higher starting range.

If you can live with a range of 60 miles per charge for the next 8 years I'd say a 2016/2017 is a very safe bet. If the range falls below that Nissan should replace the battery under warranty. Worst case, the car drops its 4th bar just after the 8 year mark and you have a car with degraded range and value but no warranty coverage. Even then, if you can live with the lower range the car will probably still be in good condition as they are well built and the chassis, etc should easily do 150k miles.

juliabee23
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:25 am
Delivery Date: 20 Aug 2018
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: buying used Leaf- help in Tucson

Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:47 pm

Thanks, goldbrick. Super helpful.

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