12v Lithium Iron Phosphate New Battery Available

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vgabbott

New member
Joined
Oct 21, 2024
Messages
3
Location
Ketchikan Alaska
12v Lithium Battery Suitable at reasonable price...
FINALLY. The company Wattcycle has a new $160 plus free shipping on eBay or $170 direct, 12v mini battery that's fits the Leaf. It's dimensions are: 9.02L x 5.43W x 8.19H inches | 20.8 lbs. Note Leaf's battery tray is 11" x 6" for reference.
It is Lithium Iron Phosphate and is 100ah. Designated as Wattcycle 12v Mini 100ah Lithium. I know... why 100ah not 40 or 50ah? Because it is less cost than AGM 50ah and will theoretically last life of vehicle (has 4,000cycle life).
Now, some minor issues: 1) you need to buy set of brass battery posts at cost of $5 or less, 2) Positive terminal is on left side, so negative cable may have to be stretched. (Saw a review of Leaf owner who made (LH) battery work so this might not be an issue. If it is an issue or you are a perfectionist, then a $3 4" busbar will solve that problem.
I talked with Wattcycle and they are considering making a RH terminal version available which would make ths battery nearly plug and play with screw in brass posts.
Here is website for Wattcycle:

https://www.wattcycle.com/?sscid=Cj...oymDvq_LMjyiFPa9ui_sbA5KlXgv9cD8aAgx5EALw_wcB
 
There is no reason to put a 100 Ahr (or even 50 AHr) 12v battery in a Leaf; you don't need the "cranking" capacity or the the load capacity. That said, the price (at that capacity) almost seems to good to be true, which begs the question of what exactly is inside (BMS, etc.)?
For reference, I run a 20 AHr LiFePO4 12v battery in my Leaf.
 
There is no reason to put a 100 Ahr (or even 50 AHr) 12v battery in a Leaf; you don't need the "cranking" capacity or the the load capacity. That said, the price (at that capacity) almost seems to good to be true, which begs the question of what exactly is inside (BMS, etc.)?
For reference, I run a 20 AHr LiFePO4 12v battery in my Leaf.
Agreed, you don't need a cranking, it's advertised as deep cycle, but having 100ah capacity guarantees you don't have to worry if your Leaf sits for a long time. And, with normal degradation, battery will out last life of car. And why not if it's this cheap. Yes, price is real.
 
12v Lithium Battery Suitable at reasonable price...
FINALLY. The company Wattcycle has a new $160 plus free shipping on eBay or $170 direct, 12v mini battery that's fits the Leaf. It's dimensions are: 9.02L x 5.43W x 8.19H inches | 20.8 lbs. Note Leaf's battery tray is 11" x 6" for reference.
It is Lithium Iron Phosphate and is 100ah. Designated as Wattcycle 12v Mini 100ah Lithium. I know... why 100ah not 40 or 50ah? Because it is less cost than AGM 50ah and will theoretically last life of vehicle (has 4,000cycle life).
Now, some minor issues: 1) you need to buy set of brass battery posts at cost of $5 or less, 2) Positive terminal is on left side, so negative cable may have to be stretched. (Saw a review of Leaf owner who made (LH) battery work so this might not be an issue. If it is an issue or you are a perfectionist, then a $3 4" busbar will solve that problem.
I talked with Wattcycle and they are considering making a RH terminal version available which would make ths battery nearly plug and play with screw in brass posts.
Here is website for Wattcycle:

https://www.wattcycle.com/?sscid=Cj...oymDvq_LMjyiFPa9ui_sbA5KlXgv9cD8aAgx5EALw_wcB
Lithium iron phosphate chemistry requires a different charger type than Lead Acid. A lead acid battery typically will be fully charged at rest at 12.6-12.8V where as a LiFePO4 battery will be 13.3-13.4V.. Charging voltage needs to be higher to full charge and rate of charge and maintenance charge is completely different. The internal circuitry of a LiPo4 battery might protect from excessive charging current, but it cannot change the lower (insufficient) charger voltage designed for a Lead-acid battery. Consequently, any potential benefit of LiPo4 battery is significantly compromised unless Nissan Leaf internal 12V charger was designed to detect and adjust to both LiPo4 and lead-acid batteries, which is unlikely.
 
Lithium iron phosphate chemistry requires a different charger type than Lead Acid. A lead acid battery typically will be fully charged at rest at 12.6-12.8V where as a LiFePO4 battery will be 13.3-13.4V.. Charging voltage needs to be higher to full charge and rate of charge and maintenance charge is completely different. The internal circuitry of a LiPo4 battery might protect from excessive charging current, but it cannot change the lower (insufficient) charger voltage designed for a Lead-acid battery. Consequently, any potential benefit of LiPo4 battery is significantly compromised unless Nissan Leaf internal 12V charger was designed to detect and adjust to both LiPo4 and lead-acid batteries, which is unlikely.
Due to the current the battery can take during charging the Leaf will charge the LiFePO4 battery I linked at ~14.4 volts, dropping to ~13.2 once the charging current is below ~2 amps. This battery stays fully charged in my 2019.

I'm in the deep south and not worried about freezing temps, but they do have a heated and Bluetooth version.
 
Due to the current the battery can take during charging the Leaf will charge the LiFePO4 battery I linked at ~14.4 volts, dropping to ~13.2 once the charging current is below ~2 amps. This battery stays fully charged in my 2019.

I'm in the deep south and not worried about freezing temps, but they do have a heated and Bluetooth version.
So, there IS a provision for LiPo4 12V battery charge and maintenance into 2nd gen Leaf! But as you mentioned such battery chemistry may not perform below freezing temps, unless it is designed for it.
 
So, there IS a provision for LiPo4 12V battery charge and maintenance into 2nd gen Leaf! But as you mentioned such battery chemistry may not perform below freezing temps, unless it is designed for it.
No: ALL Leafs.
Most of these LiFePO4 starter batteries are "drop-in" replacements for lead acid (otherwise how would they sell them?). I have been using one in my Gen1 Leaf for over 10 years (that's not a typo); it has a max voltage rating of 14.4v and has a resting voltage ~13v.
Lithium starter batteries (at least the good ones) are perfect for EVs, but most people can't justify the extra $. I've never been stranded by a dead battery. ;)
 
but most people can't justify the extra $
I might be one of these people ;) But I'm trying. I've seen enough discussions about them to make me feel like they're complicated, expensive, and the affordable ones are junk. It's not just the extra $, but also the extra time to find a good drop-in one that's suitable for my situation. I feel like I risk ending up with more problems than with the original "ok" lead-acid I have right now.

(Might also be a little bit of "lead-acid is known territory" ;) )
 
I might be one of these people ;) But I'm trying. I've seen enough discussions about them to make me feel like they're complicated, expensive, and the affordable ones are junk. It's not just the extra $, but also the extra time to find a good drop-in one that's suitable for my situation. I feel like I risk ending up with more problems than with the original "ok" lead-acid I have right now.

(Might also be a little bit of "lead-acid is known territory" ;) )
You also realize that Li batteries require a higher charging voltage than lead-acid;
https://www.google.com/search?q=lif...IImAMAiAYBkAYIkgcBMaAHAA&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

and the Leaf, as indicated by some, has an inadequate charging voltage for even a lead acid battery.
So why would anyone use a different battery chemistry requiring a higher charging voltage?

My '13 Leaf's OEM battery lasted over 6 years and my 2019 Leaf with 55K miles still has the OEM battery.
 
You also realize that Li batteries require a higher charging voltage than lead-acid;
https://www.google.com/search?q=lif...IImAMAiAYBkAYIkgcBMaAHAA&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

and the Leaf, as indicated by some, has an inadequate charging voltage for even a lead acid battery.
So why would anyone use a different battery chemistry requiring a higher charging voltage?

My '13 Leaf's OEM battery lasted over 6 years and my 2019 Leaf with 55K miles still has the OEM battery.
I guess you missed my actual observations I reported above? 14.4v is enough to get the Li battery fully charged or very very close. The Leaf will go to the higher voltage due to the higher current draw from the Li vs. Lead Acid.
 
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I guess you missed my actual observations I reported above? 14.4v is enough to get the Li battery fully charged or very very close. The Leaf will go to the higher voltage due to the higher current draw from the Li vs. Lead Acid.
Haven't seen this! Where're your data? Yes, the charging voltage will go to 14.4V when the wipers are used, as I discovered and posted here
about 8 years ago, but the system doesn't charge continuously at 14.4V in the normal charging mode.
 
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If it got an internal charger you can hook to the alternator it rocks, and will do the same job as the anti-gravity battery that also does that but costs a grand. If it doesn’t though you’ve got to occasionally charge it off its own charger though. The car won’t charge it.
 
Haven't seen this! Where're your data? Yes, the charging voltage will go to 14.4V when the wipers are used, as I discovered and posted here
about 8 years ago, but the system doesn't charge continuously at 14.4V in the normal charging mode.
My data is from Leafspy and watching the 12v monitor/USB adapter I have plugged in the 12v receptacle.

Charging up really quick after start...notice the amps to the battery.


m3zZPvb.png
Click For Full-Size Image.
 
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You also realize that Li batteries require a higher charging voltage than lead-acid;
https://www.google.com/search?q=lif...IImAMAiAYBkAYIkgcBMaAHAA&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

and the Leaf, as indicated by some, has an inadequate charging voltage for even a lead acid battery.
So why would anyone use a different battery chemistry requiring a higher charging voltage?

My '13 Leaf's OEM battery lasted over 6 years and my 2019 Leaf with 55K miles still has the OEM battery.
The operating field reality is BOTH Pb and LiFePO4 are functionally OVERCHARGED in the car. The cars system and even PB chargers do the same thing. They push the voltage up to 14+ volts, hold it until the current starts to back down as the battery fills, then start dropping the voltage.
The BMS (battery management system) of the LiFePO4 is specifically designed to deal with over and undercurrent situations.
The BMS and the quality of the LiFePO4 cells are the critical basics.
But, the quality of PB cells is the critical items in those batteries.

The Ohmmu LiFePO4 I have in my Prius reads 13.9v right after a good run. In a couple hours it's down to 13.4v. The next day 13.2v, where it sits for a couple weeks, which is about as long as it ever sits.
The fairly new PB in in the Leaf goes up to 13.6v right after charging, drops to 12.8v in a few hours, and is 12.4 the next day. From there it does a very slow decline. When the previous one was much older, all those numbers were lower, and the decline was a lot faster.

I would have no problem putting a decent LiFePO4 in the Leaf now that I know more.
Figuring quality out is a different problem. Some people get top of the line PB. Others get the cheapest one they can find. You can be sure they are absolutely of different quality.
 
Haven't seen this! Where're your data? Yes, the charging voltage will go to 14.4V when the wipers are used, as I discovered and posted here
about 8 years ago, but the system doesn't charge continuously at 14.4V in the normal charging mode.
It cycles to 14.4v every time you charge the traction pack. I'm surprised you didn't know this for as long as you have been a Leaf owner (and member of the forum).
 
Well, my new to me 2013 leaf is having charging problems again and I am sure it is the r 12V battery causing the issues. I keep manually charging the Lead Acid battery, but I think its time for a new one. I was looking at the Ohmmu battery suggest here. My job forces me to be gone up to two weeks and the car will sit. (This appears to be why my battery is dying). So, here are my questions.
1. On the Ohmmu site, it refences Tesla and says you should leave your car plugged in if it is going to sit. Is this the same for the Leaf? Should I have been leaving it on the 110v charger?

2. I was thinking about getting a solar charger to leave plugged in while I travel.
https://www.batterytender.com/produ...w-solar-battery-charger-with-windshield-mount
Will this be an issue for a LiFePO4 battery? Do I need a special charger that has a specific charging cycle?

3. Do I need the bluetooth enabled battery to disconnect power during the sitting period? (100 dollars more)

4. Do I do the charger with an AGM or Lead Acid to keep it topped off?

Thanks!!
 
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