12v Lithium Iron Phosphate New Battery Available

[MozzoAU]

I have installed a LifePo4 12v battery in my 2012 leaf. It's been about 3 months now. With the particular battery I used, the BMS in it would disconnect the cells when reaching peak charge. This causes the leaf systems to go haywire. I solved the problem by placing a 25ah AGM battery in parallel with the LifePo4. Whilst their float voltage is different, they don't seem to have any problem working in parallel.

Moz

 

[Stanton]

I have installed a LifePo4 12v battery in my 2012 leaf. It's been about 3 months now. With the particular battery I used, the BMS in it would disconnect the cells when reaching peak charge.

Would be helpful is you posted exactly (make/model) which Lithium 12v battery you installed, because that behavior makes no sense.

 

[Lucky]

BMS will disconnect the battery when the voltage goes beyond 14.6V. Some will do it at 15V or somewhere near that. It is possible to fry something in this case since the DC/DC converter is not dimensioned for such situations and it's output voltage may swing beyond safe limit.

What happens in emergency situations when high current is needed, for example extreme braking with ABS, lights and heated windows and seats on? BMS will (could) again disconnect and you can potentially loose all power.

LFP is around 99% charged already at 13.5V and 100Ah LFP holds as much charge as ~200Ah Pb battery because LFP may be cycled 0% to 100% (10V to 14.6V). I will put 100Ah battery without BMS and with strong balancer in my wife's Leaf because she has a diesel heater installed. I will fuse it with 200A fuse for safety. Of course I don't recommend this to anyone since it is not standard procedure.

 

[Bombastinator2]

BMS will disconnect the battery when the voltage goes beyond 14.6V. Some will do it at 15V or somewhere near that. It is possible to fry something in this case since the DC/DC converter is not dimensioned for such situations and it's output voltage may swing beyond safe limit.

What happens in emergency situations when high current is needed, for example extreme braking with ABS, lights and heated windows and seats on? BMS will (could) again disconnect and you can potentially loose all power.

LFP is around 99% charged already at 13.5V and 100Ah LFP holds as much charge as ~200Ah Pb battery because LFP may be cycled 0% to 100% (10V to 14.6V). I will put 100Ah battery without BMS and with strong balancer in my wife's Leaf because she has a diesel heater installed. I will fuse it with 200A fuse for safety. Of course I don't recommend this to anyone since it is not standard procedure.

My dad had a diesel heater on his 48hp vanagon (yeah an ICE car that needed a separate heater, wow but that thing was wimpy) anyway you always knew when it was on because it smelled. That still a thing?

 

[Lucky]

My dad had a diesel heater on his 48hp vanagon (yeah an ICE car that needed a separate heater, wow but that thing was wimpy) anyway you always knew when it was on because it smelled. That still a thing?

Yes, but not as much as my former BMW smelled. The exhaust is outside so when you are driving you don't smell anything.

 

[Learjet]

BMS will disconnect the battery when the voltage goes beyond 14.6V. Some will do it at 15V or somewhere near that. It is possible to fry something in this case since the DC/DC converter is not dimensioned for such situations and it's output voltage may swing beyond safe limit.

What happens in emergency situations when high current is needed, for example extreme braking with ABS, lights and heated windows and seats on? BMS will (could) again disconnect and you can potentially loose all power.

LFP is around 99% charged already at 13.5V and 100Ah LFP holds as much charge as ~200Ah Pb battery because LFP may be cycled 0% to 100% (10V to 14.6V). I will put 100Ah battery without BMS and with strong balancer in my wife's Leaf because she has a diesel heater installed. I will fuse it with 200A fuse for safety. Of course I don't recommend this to anyone since it is not standard procedure.

Ok what is the point of your statement? I have never seen more that 14.4 volts.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Yes, but not as much as my former BMW smelled. The exhaust is outside so when you are driving you don't smell anything.

Yeah. It was like driving a skunk. The thing was of course a dog and people would be honking at me from behind so I’d be like”you want me to floor it? OO-kayyy!” And leave them in an impenetrable black cloud

 

[Dooglas]

My dad had a diesel heater on his 48hp vanagon (yeah an ICE car that needed a separate heater, wow but that thing was wimpy) anyway you always knew when it was on because it smelled. That still a thing?

I once owned a VW 412 411 (also known as a type 4). Mine had a factory installed gasoline heater (as well as a gasoline engine). If you ever drove an original VW bug in the winter, you know the reason for this. Otherwise the heater in air-cooled VWs was pretty wimpy and took forever to heat up. Liquid cooled gasoline engines have a more efficient system for heating (as do diesels though they benefit from preheating), and the advent of heat pump heating in EVs is an effective system except in very low temperatures (when they must revert to resistance heating).

 

[cornbinder89]

I wish that a combustion heater was a factory option on the Leaf. I was on my Saab 900 in 1984.

 

[Bombastinator2]

I once owned a VW 412 (also known as a type 4). Mine had a factory installed gasoline heater (as well as a gasoline engine). If you ever drove an original VW bug in the winter, you know the reason for this. Otherwise the heater in air-cooled VWs was pretty wimpy and took forever to heat up. Liquid cooled gasoline engines have a more efficient system for heating (as do diesels though they benefit from preheating), and the advent of heat pump heating in EVs is an effective system except in very low temperatures (when they must revert to resistance heating).

That thing was a wasserboxer but it still needed it. I remember needing to back up hills because reverse was lower than first

 

[Dooglas]

That thing was a wasserboxer but it still needed it. I remember needing to back up hills because reverse was lower than first

My error. It was a long time ago . My type 4 was aircooled and had a gasoline heater as noted above. It must have been the model VW designated as a 411 in the US.

 

[Bombastinator2]

My error. It was a long time ago . My type 4 was aircooled and had a gasoline heater as noted above. It must have been the model VW designated as a 411 in the US.

lol. I was talking about my Dad’s vanagon. I don’t know what model it was. It had a water cooled flat 4 (wasserboxer) but it was also 48hp diesel, was designed to be a German night bus in smaller communities, and easily the most anemic thing I have ever driven.

 

[cornbinder89]

lol. I was talking about my Dad’s vanagon. I don’t know what model it was. It had a water cooled flat 4 (wasserboxer) but it was also 48hp diesel, was designed to be a German night bus in smaller communities, and easily the most anemic thing I have ever driven.

My brother had a vanagon diesel, that was inline four, and made in a turbo version in Europe but only sold NA in the US.
The wasserboxer was a gasoline engine from all I can find, never made as a diesel anywhere in the world. It did have the combustion chamber in the piston rather than the head, like most direct injected diesels, but that is as close to diesel as it comes.
My brother replaced his NA with a "gray market" turbo diesel.
The Wasserboxer didn't have a great rep, with headgaskets being a problem IIRC.
I am open to be corrected if someone can provide some literature showing a diesel version.

 

[Bombastinator2]

My brother had a vanagon diesel, that was inline four, and made in a turbo version in Europe but only sold NA in the US.
The wasserboxer was a gasoline engine from all I can find, never made as a diesel anywhere in the world. It did have the combustion chamber in the piston rather than the head, like most direct injected diesels, but that is as close to diesel as it comes.
My brother replaced his NA with a "gray market" turbo diesel.
The Wasserboxer didn't have a great rep, with headgaskets being a problem IIRC.

All “Wasserboxer” means is “water cooled flat four”. Like”Farfegnugen” actually just means fun-to-driveness. German likes to stick words together. The word for fire truck rather famously doesn't fit on the side of a fire truck. I can guarantee it was a water cooled diesel flat four. My Dad called it a “wasserboxer” whether that means the same thing I don’t know. I Can also guarantee there was no turbo (I really wish there was) I don’t know how many liters it was for one thing. I do know it wasn’t normally sold in the US and wasn’t sold at all as a passenger vehicle. At the time you could have vans “factory modded” as passenger vehicles and my dad did that. He had to order it and it came with this bizarre vinyl “art” on the side he would never have ordered if he had a choice. He totaled it and it still sold for a good price because there were basically no others in the US. I know because a perspective new owner called him and apparently didn’t care that it had been totaled.

 

[cornbinder89]

Yes, they made a water cooled flat four, just not a diesel. They made a Diesel van but not a flat four.
My family had a lot of VW's from the 50's through just recently.
My brother had both the NA diesel van and the turbo (gray market) diesel.
I can find zero info on a flat four diesel water cooled.
The diesel was rare (and very underpowered) in the US NA form, and were never sold here in the Turbo form.
Your dad could of had a diesel, he could have had a watercooled flat four, but it wouldn't have been a diesel.
If you have any documentation I'd be interested in seeing it, I can find nothing anywhere on the web for a flat four diesel VW.
Comer made a flat four diesel opposed piston engine.

 

[cornbinder89]

The inline 4 diesel was angled over at about a 45 deg angle, so may have looked "flat" at first glance.
it was a conventional inline with all pistons in the same orientation.
Both turbo and NA cracked heads between the valves on a fairly regular schedule

 

[Chad E. Mo]

^^^ Yep. I have one. Special oil pan and exhaust to manage the extra tilt.

Cracks between the valves usually is benign. Cracks in the precups are a ticking timebomb.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Yes, they made a water cooled flat four, just not a diesel. They made a Diesel van but not a flat four.
My family had a lot of VW's from the 50's through just recently.
My brother had both the NA diesel van and the turbo (gray market) diesel.
I can find zero info on a flat four diesel water cooled.
The diesel was rare (and very underpowered) in the US NA form, and were never sold here in the Turbo form.
Your dad could of had a diesel, he could have had a watercooled flat four, but it wouldn't have been a diesel.
If you have any documentation I'd be interested in seeing it, I can find nothing anywhere on the web for a flat four diesel VW.
Comer made a flat four diesel opposed piston engine.

Dude, I learned to drive in it. It existed. It was a pancake engine. I suppose it might have been a really weird straight 4, but it was definitely pancake. Theres no other way it would fit. The back area where it kept the engine was lifted, but only about a foot or so. The only way to fit a regular engine in there was if it hung way way down, and it didn’t. I suppose my dad could have been just wrong, it didn’t happen all that often though. You want photos? They’re probably around. The back engine compartment was long enough. I suppose a 90° straight 4 might be possible, but a regular one? Hell no.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The anemic diesel 4 was used in several vehicles of different makes. I suspect that it was installed 45 degrees from vertical in your application. I've seen lots of photos and references to the straight 4 diesel, but zero until now to a pancake diesel. Maybe there was one, but I'd be very surprised. Why keep stuffing that 'boat anchor' as it was called, into European cars and light trucks, if they had a flat four available..?

 

[cornbinder89]

I did a fair bit of work on my brothers, before and after the turbo was exchanged inplace on the NA. The angle may have been less than 45, may be more like 30, but it was the inline 4 that the Rabbit and others used, not a boxer engine like the older air cooled engines where there were pistons on either side of the central crankshaft.
It had a Vanagon only sump and oil pick-up, oil cooler and a few other special parts. When you pulled up the rear hatch you were looking straight down on the injection pump (normally on the side of the engine).
I'm not doubting a diesel vanagon, nor its under-powered anemic output.
I have never heard of, seen or can find any reference to a diesel boxer built by VW either air cooled or water cooled. I know of the "wasserboxer" gasoline boxer, but no diesel. I have seen only one, and it was gasoline. A search of the internet show zero mention of a diesel.