2016 Nissan LEAF Information - 30 kWh SV/SL, 24 kWh S

[ishiyakazuo]

the other thing I am predicting is this "all EV" range will not be exactly what you are expecting. the distance will be there (and more!) but how it does it will be COMPLETELY new!

Something like a battery + fuel cell hybrid?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

the other thing I am predicting is this "all EV" range will not be exactly what you are expecting. the distance will be there (and more!) but how it does it will be COMPLETELY new!

Something like a battery + fuel cell hybrid?

sure does doesn't it!

 

[Sublime]

Alcoa/Phinergy still claim their Al-air battery will be in a production car in 2017. A 300-400 mile range Al-air "range extender pack" that can be quickly swapped out at a nissan dealer in addition to a 200 mile Li-ion range would be pretty cool.

 

[dhanson865]

The great media echo chamber has repeated the 30kWh story today. Is there any "real" indication that it is a surer thing now than it was in late may when this thread started?

how about this for "sure thing"

a Nissan Dealer posted a screen shot of the ordering page for his dealership and the 30 kwh is most definitely an option. for more info, go to the Seattle LEAF owners page on Facebook if you want to see the same screen shot

I've been looking but I can't find the PIC you are talking about.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

The great media echo chamber has repeated the 30kWh story today. Is there any "real" indication that it is a surer thing now than it was in late may when this thread started?

how about this for "sure thing"

a Nissan Dealer posted a screen shot of the ordering page for his dealership and the 30 kwh is most definitely an option. for more info, go to the Seattle LEAF owners page on Facebook if you want to see the same screen shot

I've been looking but I can't find the PIC you are talking about.

you mean you can't figure out Facebook's "wonderful" search option?

ya, me neither... I see what I can do

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

ok, took a while but found it

 

[Yogi62]

Given the mix in the same model year, it could be that when my 2013 is seven years old and down a bit on usable KW, I just might be able to by a replacement that is makes the car better than new. We're 5 years into the 2011's are there any aging issues yet other than the battery? These cars could be useful for a long time if you take care of them.

 

[dhanson865]

Given the mix in the same model year, it could be that when my 2013 is seven years old and down a bit on usable KW, I just might be able to by a replacement that is makes the car better than new. We're 5 years into the 2011's are there any aging issues yet other than the battery? These cars could be useful for a long time if you take care of them.

Aging issues other than battery are all minor

suspension, shocks/struts can be replaced at reasonable costs but will be needed, pretty much can guarantee you'll want to replace these at some point if you keep the car.

headlights/tailights/turn signals/interior lights. All easy to replace. Tons of brands and styles to choose from with differing wattages and color temps.

touchscreen, eventually scratches or fingerprints might get on your nerves. Luckily you can buy a screen replacement from 3rd party sources cheap enough (think $25 for the touch layer and $150 for the LCD, with any luck you'll only need to replace the touch layer to make it like new).

air conditioning, likely to outlast the battery but might require additional coolant or have a failed compressor or hose eventually. You might luck out and never have to service this.

upholstery, eventually buy a new seat cover or ignore the wear and tear. No big deal.

brake pads, if you get to 300,000 miles or so you might want to check those. I haven't changed the pads on my 2005 Prius yet so I doubt I'll ever change them on the Leaf.

 

[AskingQuestions]

@DaveinOlyWA: That screenshot is impressive, thank you for posting that here. That's like an official confirmation of the 30kW SV/SL battery - except for availability and cost.

Given the mix in the same model year, it could be that when my 2013 is seven years old and down a bit on usable KW, I just might be able to by a replacement that is makes the car better than new. We're 5 years into the 2011's are there any aging issues yet other than the battery? These cars could be useful for a long time if you take care of them.

Indeed, that's a thought many might have now. With the $5,500 battery replacement program offered by Nissan, will this 30kW battery also be compatible to older, pre-2016 Leafs? Will there be an adapter kit necessary, even for 2013/2014/2015, just like it is necessary today for replacement with the 2011/2012? In case it is compatible, how much more would it cost to get a 30kW replacement battery instead of a 24kW? (Of course, nobody might know the answers yet, still nothing wrong with Asking Questions. )

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Am I the only one who noticed the "CVT" transmission? Is this simply a result of "the database doesn't support a single-speed transmission", or is this actually new for 2016? Have they figured out how to make a CVT that can handle the torque of an electric motor? Does a CVT ever make sense in a BEV? If so, could this actually improve highway miles?

 

[ishiyakazuo]

Am I the only one who noticed the "CVT" transmission? Is this simply a result of "the database doesn't support a single-speed transmission", or is this actually new for 2016? Have they figured out how to make a CVT that can handle the torque of an electric motor? Does a CVT ever make sense in a BEV? If so, could this actually improve highway miles?

It's sort of continuously variable already... it varies how much torque goes to the wheels by how hard you slam the pedal down
I suspect it's just because they didn't want to change the system's listing mechanisms for EVs. They also say "50 state emissions" -- that's kind of a given in a zero-emission car.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Am I the only one who noticed the "CVT" transmission? Is this simply a result of "the database doesn't support a single-speed transmission", or is this actually new for 2016? Have they figured out how to make a CVT that can handle the torque of an electric motor? Does a CVT ever make sense in a BEV? If so, could this actually improve highway miles?

It's sort of continuously variable already... it varies how much torque goes to the wheels by how hard you slam the pedal down
I suspect it's just because they didn't want to change the system's listing mechanisms for EVs. They also say "50 state emissions" -- that's kind of a given in a zero-emission car.

That's a bit of a stretch / abuse of terms. The transmission is not variable speed at all - it is a fixed single speed transmission.

But I suspect you're right - it's just a matter of not wanting to add another transmission type to their database. This could be confirmed if we knew what the 2011-2015 were listed as in Nissan's ordering system.

 

[ishiyakazuo]

That's a bit of a stretch / abuse of terms. The transmission is not variable speed at all - it is a fixed single speed transmission.

Of course. However, it's just called Continuously Variable Transmission... you imply it's speed (although I think it's actually continuously variable gear ratio...), but it could be continuously variable power, or whatever you want it to be, with it being such a vague term. Alternate names for CVT are "gearless transmission" (true for the LEAF), "single-speed transmission" (also true for the LEAF). I'd imagine LEAF's gear ratio is fixed, though, so it's really the opposite of a CVT in that regard.

 

[Valdemar]

That's a bit of a stretch / abuse of terms. The transmission is not variable speed at all - it is a fixed single speed transmission.

Of course. However, it's just called Continuously Variable Transmission... you imply it's speed (although I think it's actually continuously variable gear ratio...), but it could be continuously variable power, or whatever you want it to be, with it being such a vague term. Alternate names for CVT are "gearless transmission" (true for the LEAF), "single-speed transmission" (also true for the LEAF). I'd imagine LEAF's gear ratio is fixed, though, so it's really the opposite of a CVT in that regard.

The transmission is single-speed but it is not gearless in the Leaf.

 

[ishiyakazuo]

That's a bit of a stretch / abuse of terms. The transmission is not variable speed at all - it is a fixed single speed transmission.

Of course. However, it's just called Continuously Variable Transmission... you imply it's speed (although I think it's actually continuously variable gear ratio...), but it could be continuously variable power, or whatever you want it to be, with it being such a vague term. Alternate names for CVT are "gearless transmission" (true for the LEAF), "single-speed transmission" (also true for the LEAF). I'd imagine LEAF's gear ratio is fixed, though, so it's really the opposite of a CVT in that regard.

The transmission is single-speed but it is not gearless in the Leaf.

You're right... I was thinking of "gearless" as single gear ratio (i.e. no gear shifting), but yes, CVT actually doesn't have gears, whereas the LEAF does. Good catch.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

"CVT" for lack of a better term has always been the transmission option for the LEAF

pricing not shown because it is not available to the dealers yet. Makes rolling the "wait till the 2016 comes out" dice without risk.

unfortunately the screenshot also verifies one of the most boring color palettes ever....

 

[edatoakrun]

An Automotive News source comments on CGs statements at the shareholder's meeting, give more explicit range numbers for the 2016 LEAF, and also for the gen 2 mule the (slightly optimistic) GOM of which was shown in the video.

Seems to confirm that the 30 kWh does not require an expanded pack, which is good news (IMO) increasing the odds that the 30 kWh pack may be backward compatible with earlier LEAFs.

YOKOHAMA, Japan -- Nissan Motor Co., fighting falling sales of its Leaf electric vehicle, plans a midcycle update as early as August that aims to deliver a big increase in the Leaf's driving range, a person familiar with the project said.

The improvements will come from squeezing more energy into the Leaf's lithium ion battery. The new battery will be the same size as the current 24-kilowatt-hour power pack but deliver 30 kwh, the source said.

CEO Carlos Ghosn outlined future EV steps at the company's annual shareholders meeting Tuesday, June 23. Nissan is developing a lighter, thinner, cheaper battery to enable driving ranges comparable with gasoline vehicles in the "near future," he said...


Next to him on stage, Nissan displayed a Leaf equipped with a prototype next-generation electric drivetrain. That technology, which is under development and being tested, achieves a range of more than 500 kilometers (310 miles), the source said.

Ghosn said the goal of the next-generation battery is to eliminate range anxiety by providing enough cushion for people to complete their daily drive and "return home with ample charge."

A video simulation showed the car charging up to a range of more than 310 miles and ending the day with a drivable range of 160 miles still in reserve.

Yet even before that next-generation battery hits the market, Nissan plans an interim upgrade for its flagship green car. "We will not wait for its completion to move forward," Ghosn said.

The Leaf's new 30 kwh battery may arrive as early as August. The battery should achieve an EPA-rated range of about 125 miles on a full charge, the source said. That compares with an EPA-rated range of 84 miles for the current battery.

The real-world range of the new battery, however, is expected to be closer to 105 to 110 miles, the source said. ...

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150629/OEM06/306299980/leaf-to-get-a-big-boost-in-driving-range

 

[NeilBlanchard]

Am I the only one who noticed the "CVT" transmission? Is this simply a result of "the database doesn't support a single-speed transmission", or is this actually new for 2016? Have they figured out how to make a CVT that can handle the torque of an electric motor? Does a CVT ever make sense in a BEV? If so, could this actually improve highway miles?

This could possibly explain the claim for an EPA range of ~125 miles, with the claimed 30kWh battery pack. Or, part of that improvement, anyway.

 

[edatoakrun]

Am I the only one who noticed the "CVT" transmission? ...

Does a CVT ever make sense in a BEV? If so, could this actually improve highway miles?

This could possibly explain the claim for an EPA range of ~125 miles, with the claimed 30kWh battery pack. Or, part of that improvement, anyway.

A CVT provides very little benefit to A BEV, since motor efficiency is very high over a large RPM range.

The much simpler alternative, two speeds giving two final drive ratios (as Tesla initially tried to implement with the Roadster) give relatively small efficiency gains.

Although, if you have separate motors with separate rpm/efficiency curves for each axle (or wheel) such as the Tesla SD, you can preferentially drive the BEV with the motor(s) with the highest efficiency at different speeds.

Could be we'll see that in the LEAF gen 2.

As for the 2016, I don't see much room for aero improvement without a redesign, but just improving the tire/wheel efficiency, could add some decent miles to the EPA range.

If the 2016 LEAF really gets ~125 miles of EPA range out of ~30 kWh static capacity, part of the answer may be in Nissan allowing the driver to access a larger percentage of total capacity between "100%" and shutdown, only ~90% (on average) of which is accessible in 2011-15 LEAFs.

 

[LKK]

Is it possible that a CVT transmission for efficiency? I've heard electric motors become more inefficient at higher RPMs. Since they could produce any amount of torque at any RPM, perhaps a CVT allows the motor to operate in its sweet spot at higher vehicle speeds.