Bolt versus Leaf: Am I crazy?

[LeftieBiker]

Has GM ever put luxury into a small car?

Look up "Cadillac Cimaron."

 

[henrydehoja]

Has GM ever put luxury into a small car?

Look up "Cadillac Cimaron."

And I remember the Cadillac Catera from the late '90s.

 

[cwerdna]

Has GM ever put luxury into a small car?

Look up "Cadillac Cimaron."

LOL! That was pretty hilarious. They tried to gussy up the Chevy Cavalier.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It wasn't so much the idea, as how little real effort they put into it. Cloth panels in vinyl seats, a stamped metal dashboard with just a couple of extra gauges, a whopping 85HP...

 

[Leaf4al]

I was on the fence on the Bolt EV and LEAF. I settled on a 2023 SV plus despite being more than $10000. I found the Leaf more comfortable. I've also owned Japanese cars and once you get used to them, it's hard to drive anything else. I also noted that the Bolt is more mechanically complicated and could mean problems later down the road. Did you know, there are three coolant reservoirs in the Bolt and each reservoir is run by a plastic pump. I am betting one of these pumps will leak or crack later on (just like on BMWs). The Leaf, having no battery thermal management on the other hand has no pumps. After over a week now of driving the Leaf, I smile every time I get behind the wheel. I think as long as I drive this for what it is designed for (being a local commuter} and just trickle charging at home and avoiding DCQC, it'll be fine.

 

[cwerdna]

Did you know, there are three coolant reservoirs in the Bolt and each reservoir is run by a plastic pump. I am betting one of these pumps will leak or crack later on (just like on BMWs).

The 3 reservoirs are for:
- the cabin heater only
- battery pack
- Single Power Inverter Module (SPIM), Accessory Power Module (APM), and Charger Module. Motor was liquid cooled, but that's another story with '22 Bolt EV...

I can't speak to whether they're plastic or not.

The Leaf, having no battery thermal management on the other hand has no pumps.

Not true. There's at least one pump for the loop for the on-board charger and motor. https://web.archive.org/web/20160219091336/http://articles.sae.org/11993/ discussing some of cooling. Folks have had water pumps fail. Google for site:mynissanleaf.com water pump failed.

Update: I looked at the newest Leaf service manual I have access to. It looks like '15 Leaf has only 1 water pump, from what I can see so far. '12 had at least three water pumps, one for its power pig water heater (heated liquid that ran thru a heater core).

 

[leafamiga]

I currently drive a 2015 Leaf, and I’m getting a Bolt EUV in a few weeks, theoretically.

If the Leaf had CCS, I probably would have gotten a Leaf. With six years of leaf ownership, and over 200 DCFC sessions between two Leafs, I definitely know first hand the challenges that Chademo can and will present at times.

That said, if my Leaf had had say 110 miles range, vs 70, I could have avoided many of those fast charging stops, as I’m very much a planner.

The Leaf definitely has better materials inside, and the rear cargo room with no seats down is a huge plus, but I just could not convince myself given the value proposition AND CCS of the Bolt.

(My senior mother got a 2023 Leaf S just a few weeks so, and I’ll definitely be taking it out on some little drives, so I look forward to direct comparisons)

 

[Leaf4al]

"Not true. There's at least one pump for the loop for the on-board charger and motor. https://web.archive.org/web/20160219091336/http://articles.sae.org/11993/ discussing some of cooling. Folks have had water pumps fail. Google for site:mynissanleaf.com water pump failed."

I stand corrected. Well, I'll settle with the Leaf with one pump versus the Bolt with three. I popped the hood and sure enough it's on the driver side. Looks plastic. I hope it lasts.

 

[SageBrush]

I was on the fence on the Bolt EV and LEAF. I settled on a 2023 SV plus despite being more than $10000. I found the Leaf more comfortable. I've also owned Japanese cars and once you get used to them, it's hard to drive anything else. I also noted that the Bolt is more mechanically complicated and could mean problems later down the road. Did you know, there are three coolant reservoirs in the Bolt and each reservoir is run by a plastic pump. I am betting one of these pumps will leak or crack later on (just like on BMWs). The Leaf, having no battery thermal management on the other hand has no pumps. After over a week now of driving the Leaf, I smile every time I get behind the wheel. I think as long as I drive this for what it is designed for (being a local commuter} and just trickle charging at home and avoiding DCQC, it'll be fine.

IIRC, the Bolt has three separate cooling circuits: one to the battery pack, one to the electronics and motor, and one for the heat pump to the passenger cabin.

I jumped ship from the LEAF to the Bolt and am a happy camper. I did not want to tie myself to a dying DCFC standard, and I wanted active battery pack cooling so that the car pack would not cook at 90+F all summer long. The Bolt was also pretty inexpensive at $25k** but that was not one of my top priorities.

** The actual money out of pocket was $10k + local taxes. I sold my 2013 Leaf 'S' Model for $9k, and I flipped a Tesla Model Y for $6k net profit. The flipping was coincidental. During the year I waited for the Model 'Y' I hurt my back and realized that long car trips were not in my future. Since that was reason #1 to buy the Tesla, I decided to not keep it.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

"Not true. There's at least one pump for the loop for the on-board charger and motor. https://web.archive.org/web/20160219091336/http://articles.sae.org/11993/ discussing some of cooling. Folks have had water pumps fail. Google for site:mynissanleaf.com water pump failed."

I stand corrected. Well, I'll settle with the Leaf with one pump versus the Bolt with three. I popped the hood and sure enough it's on the driver side. Looks plastic. I hope it lasts.

Yep, used when charging or driving or converting DC to AC or vise versa. I can verify that the car can be driven w/o a pump or one that is severely disabled as mine was with minimal risk. Despite it being Summer, I did a few near 100 mile days including trips approaching 50 miles in a stretch. Got hot but not overly so. I did restrict myself to DC charging only during that time since no cooling system for that.

 

[Loggerhead]

Yes, it does. A little background….Like you I was predisposed toward a Bolt EUV. What drove me to the Leaf was initially the fact that the Leaf is a reliable car and the Bolts are not. Consumer Reports’ latest annual buying guide recommends only one EV….the Leaf. It has a sterling 10-year history of reliability. Sure, it may not go as far as a Bolt, but it is also much less likely to be recalled.

As far as obsolescence is concerned, the Bolt will be lucky to make it to 2024 before being dropped and the Leaf will likely be replaced around 2026. Today’s Bolts and Leafs will be replaced by more desirable models and that’s a good thing.

For me, the Leaf makes sense. It will be my local driver, not my cross-country rover. I don’t worry about DC fast charging technology because all my charging will be on a 240 line in the garage. 200-225 range is all I’ll probably ever need and the Leaf delivers.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

What year and trim do your have?

 

[Loggerhead]

I’’m looking at a 2023 SV Plus when January rolls around. The government will have determined the level of rebate, $3750 or $7500, for the Leaf by the end of December.

 

[Triggerhappy007]

I’’m looking at a 2023 SV Plus when January rolls around. The government will have determined the level of rebate, $3750 or $7500, for the Leaf by the end of December.

Why wait until January when you can get $7500 until the end of the year? (If you have enough tax liability)

 

[Loggerhead]

The primary reason is that there is no local stock available.

 

[WetEV]

The primary reason is that there is no local stock available.

How far could you travel and drive back for perhaps $3750?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

The primary reason is that there is no local stock available.

How far could you travel and drive back for perhaps $3750?

I know many who feel Nissan incentives will be greater when tax incentive is reduced. I think they are trying to keep in line with Bolt on pricing which will be a greater challenge come Jan.

Their biggest mistake is ending the S Plus trim.

 

[Toby]

Their biggest mistake is ending the S Plus trim.

As one with an SV Plus I'm not sure it was a mistake. However, I think the world wide shortage of microchips is influencing decisions.

What is hurting is the decision to keep Chademo in recent years.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Their biggest mistake is ending the S Plus trim.

As one with an SV Plus I'm not sure it was a mistake. However, I think the world wide shortage of microchips is influencing decisions.

What is hurting is the decision to keep Chademo in recent years.

Chademo's imminent demise is quite overblown. How does a chip shortage affect the trim with the likely least number of chips? I figured it was more like they didn't want to cut the price to match the higher trim price cuts. Still an egregious error.

 

[cwerdna]

The primary reason is that there is no local stock available.

How far could you travel and drive back for perhaps $3750?

Even non-local stock might be tough. The dealer might have markups and you might have to place deposits on incoming cars, meaning most are pre-sold by the time they arrive. This was the situation for new Leafs in and around the Bay Area (I extended my search to be somewhat outside it) in Dec 2021/Jan 2022. When I checked some dealers out of state, it was also pretty bad w/virtually no inventory.