Chademo CAN Buss + Bi-directional use

[nlspace]

Don't know if anyone has made CAN captures of these, but the vehicle communicates using pids 0x100, 101, 102, and the charger uses 0x108, 109.

[edit] Haha, late to the show--Dala the Great has already decoded all this mess, see post #8

 

[nlspace]

Vehicle Pids,

 

[nlspace]

Charger Pids,

 

[Jsprinkle]

I apologize if this is a wrong thread to address this, but I already got kicked off another for trying to find someone knowledgeable and willing to help.

We have been trying since 2016 with a 40kwh leaf snd now with a 2023 60kwh leaf both USA builds to be able to connect with the traction battery without the car panicking and disconnecting. We do solar and battery back up for homes and the traction battery would be a godsend if we could access it well. Our existing home equipment would perfectly match the battery and we could indeed be driving on sunshine and also be using stored sunshine in the battery for nighttime home electrical operations.

We purchased a Setec unit from china which seems to work overseas but our 2023 leaf disconnected after a few seconds of operation. We were going to use the enabled connection to connect the traction battery via a standard solar string charge controller to charge our standard 48 volt lithium ion battery set which would feed our inverter bank to power the house circuits.
All is in place and working but 60kwh of good solar battery would cost similar to the price of the whole leaf, thus making this project very feasible financially speaking for our battery home clients. The leaf uses Chademo

The investment already made in these homes is always over 50k$
And this battery would leverage the investment incredibly and we get transportation from sunshine as a bonus!

Thanks and I would appreciate comments.

 

[nlspace]

The Nissan is a tough one to crack. Still trying to figure if it's possible for bi-directional operation with some additional CAN Pids and commands. Also looking at a hardware bypass method.

Do you have a Chademo connector, or some set of cables to interface with port in the car?

 

[cwerdna]

Not totally helpful, but there was https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/chademo-bi-directional.24144/#post-576427 (sorry the links got broken once MNL switched software). See reply that followed.

The PDF link's now 404, but https://web.archive.org/web/2020071...cations/CEC-500-2018-025/CEC-500-2018-025.pdf has a copy.

 

[cornbinder89]

This is from page 20:

Don't know why it pasted twice?
So does seam to be blocked.

 

[Dala]

DBC file for QC-CAN is available here: https://github.com/dalathegreat/leaf_can_bus_messages/blob/master/QC-CAN_ALL.dbc

CAN-capture of V2G session available here: https://github.com/dalathegreat/EV-CANlogs/tree/main/Nissan LEAF/V2X

Source code for DIY V2X available here (WIP): https://github.com/dalathegreat/Battery-Emulator/wiki/Chademo-vehicle

 

[nlspace]

Interesting finding about the 12V battery from page 21 of the test report,

In the early stages of the project when charging stations were being commissioned, and the LEAFs were not being fully used as fleet vehicles, LBNL discovered that when the LEAFs were connected to their charging stations and not driven for at least 1-2 weeks, the 12-volt accessory batteries would be drained to the point of inoperability. LBNL devised a protocol to maintain the charge of the 12-volt batteries that was performed every 1-2 weeks by LAAFB fleet operations staff. The process consisted of disconnecting the charging connector, pressing the Start button, turning off all accessories and leaving for 30 minutes before switching off and re-connecting to the charging station.

And for the HV traction battery,
Charging station faults, on several occasions, led to deep discharges of the LEAF drivetrain battery. In one early case, the discharge was so deep that the battery in LEAF 12B80023 could not be recovered and had to be replaced with a new battery.

 

[Jsprinkle]

The Nissan is a tough one to crack. Still trying to figure if it's possible for bi-directional operation with some additional CAN Pids and commands. Also looking at a hardware bypass method.

Do you have a Chademo connector, or some set of cables to interface with port in the car?

Chademo with the setec unit. So, yes.

 

[nlspace]

Seems like i read of someone else bought a Setec and it would not work. i would guess it is due to the programming of the laef as mentioned in the CEC report linked above in post #6,

Nissan LEAFs sold in the U.S. have a software block to prevent bi-directional (i.e. battery discharging) capability. Enabling bi-directional capability in the LEAFs purchased with Energy Commission funds for the LAAFB V2G demonstration only required a software upgrade, which was performed by a Nissan technician in the field (this option is not currently available to the public).

Maybe you have options,
1. to investigate/modify the Setec board and use it for the LV control signals thru the Chademo connector with the HV lines routed to your solar inverter.

2. create your own LV control board (e.g. arduino board with CAN transceivers) and cannibalize the Setec for the Chademo connector and wiring.

3. determine the software change needed to allow bi-directional flow and use the Setec unit as is or with mods to the HV wires.

4. bootleg, add switches to bypass the Chademo contactors; put the car in READY and you have HV at the port. All safety measures are up to you.

5. other approach since this is an unknown?

[edit] Now seeing that this was discussed back in a thread from 2017,
https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/chademo-bi-directional.24144/

 

[Jsprinkle]

Wow!
Thank you all so much for your input. I will be watching this and trying to glean way to make it happen. Thank you.

 

[Tony 240]

Interesting finding about the 12V battery from page 21 of the test report,

In the early stages of the project when charging stations were being commissioned, and the LEAFs were not being fully used as fleet vehicles, LBNL discovered that when the LEAFs were connected to their charging stations and not driven for at least 1-2 weeks, the 12-volt accessory batteries would be drained to the point of inoperability. LBNL devised a protocol to maintain the charge of the 12-volt batteries that was performed every 1-2 weeks by LAAFB fleet operations staff. The process consisted of disconnecting the charging connector, pressing the Start button, turning off all accessories and leaving for 30 minutes before switching off and re-connecting to the charging station.

And for the HV traction battery,
Charging station faults, on several occasions, led to deep discharges of the LEAF drivetrain battery. In one early case, the discharge was so deep that the battery in LEAF 12B80023 could not be recovered and had to be replaced with a new battery.

I now have my 2012 Leaf 12 volt battery hooked (with a quick connect to my 12 volt solar storage battery to maintain the charge on that system. I noticed that if you go through the procedure to turn my car on for 30 min to maintain the 12 volt system you have to un plug the charge port and leave the fob in the car.

 

[russellv]

I apologize if this is a wrong thread to address this, but I already got kicked off another for trying to find someone knowledgeable and willing to help.

We have been trying since 2016 with a 40kwh leaf snd now with a 2023 60kwh leaf both USA builds to be able to connect with the traction battery without the car panicking and disconnecting. We do solar and battery back up for homes and the traction battery would be a godsend if we could access it well. Our existing home equipment would perfectly match the battery and we could indeed be driving on sunshine and also be using stored sunshine in the battery for nighttime home electrical operations.

We purchased a Setec unit from china which seems to work overseas but our 2023 leaf disconnected after a few seconds of operation. We were going to use the enabled connection to connect the traction battery via a standard solar string charge controller to charge our standard 48 volt lithium ion battery set which would feed our inverter bank to power the house circuits.
All is in place and working but 60kwh of good solar battery would cost similar to the price of the whole leaf, thus making this project very feasible financially speaking for our battery home clients. The leaf uses Chademo

The investment already made in these homes is always over 50k$
And this battery would leverage the investment incredibly and we get transportation from sunshine as a bonus!

Thanks and I would appreciate comments.

From what you're describing about the Setec, it sounds like issues i"ve had with a ground-fault detection. Are you plugging the Setec into an independent load, if so what?
The other comments below about the LAAFB project are irrelevant. I led that project and that was due to using 2012 LEAFs that have a different version of the CHAdeMO protocol. Your 2016 and 2023 should work fine.

 

[cornbinder89]

From what you're describing about the Setec, it sounds like issues i"ve had with a ground-fault detection. Are you plugging the Setec into an independent load, if so what?
The other comments below about the LAAFB project are irrelevant. I led that project and that was due to using 2012 LEAFs that have a different version of the CHAdeMO protocol. Your 2016 and 2023 should work fine.

I am also interested and I read that project report and J Sprinkles problems and then started to question if it were possible.
I had thought all later cars could go bi directional, then heard they couldn't in the US and am now hearing they can?
Unfortunately, there are no "dealers" in the US that will stand behind the purchase and help resolve any problems.
The Setec is just too expensive for me to "try it and see", plus I'd need to add a auto transformer to get the "neutral" for our power system here. That is quite an "investment" with no recourse if it doesn't work.
Sorry if I mis-lead by posting the report, I am just trying to find out what is and isn't possible.

 

[Jsprinkle]

From what you're describing about the Setec, it sounds like issues i"ve had with a ground-fault detection. Are you plugging the Setec into an independent load, if so what?
The other comments below about the LAAFB project are irrelevant. I led that project and that was due to using 2012 LEAFs that have a different version of the CHAdeMO protocol. Your 2016 and 2023 should work fine.

Wow y’all are great with experienced responses!
I will break the setec out again and attempt to charge the internal 12vdc battery and give it another go if you do not mind walking with me through the process