Charging problem

[Babs3204]

So here's a head scratcher. I went out as usual the day before yesterday and unplugged the car to go to work early early in the morning and as soon as I unplug the (Nissan branded) 240v evse the car beeped at me several times and the three charge LEDs on the dash flashed all at once. The car had not charged at all with he charge timer.
Had enough range to go to work and back so I didn't mess with that and just went to work.

Came home yesterday and turned off the charge timer and plugged in the car right when I got home and it started charging. I went out to check the car about 45 minutes later or so and the circuit had tripped. Unplug the car, reset the fuse and car started charging again. I hadn't checked it again after that because I got busy and had to go to bed. Go out to get in the car this morning and it only added about 25 miles of range and had stopped charging again. No error lights no warning messages no nothing.

Now I'm over at the Nissan dealer in Sacramento plugged into the chademo even though we're not supposed to be doing that right now because now the car was down to 19 miles of range and I need to be able to get back to work which is 20 miles from home.

Thoughts anyone? The 50amp circuit that I charge the car on was installed in 2019 and had never tripped until yesterday. I also had never had any problems charging the previous car or this one until yesterday. I've got an appointment on the 26th to have the backup camera recall done and when I'm in I'm going to ask them about it then as well.

 

[cornbinder89]

Anything that causes a 50 CB to trip is concerning. Being that it is in a garage, it should be a GFI breaker. It is possible that there is a ground fault, or it is possible that there is some heat damage to the receptacle.
Look for any damage to the EVSE cabling, Have the 50 amp circuit inspected. The EVSE should, along with the cars OBC shut down or not start if there is a problem from the EVSE to the car, so tripping the CB for the 50 amp feed, makes me think that needs to be checked. Loose connection and/or overheated connections are a possibility.
You could also check and see if it charges L2 at another location, that would rule out your EVSE and car, leaving the house wiring the only possibility.

 

[johnlocke]

A Leaf shouldn't pull more than 27.5 amps. If it's a 50A circuit then either there's a short somewhere or the breaker is bad. You could try a different EVSE or a public level 2 charger to see if the problem is the car's charging system. If it's not the car or the breaker then the EVSE is most likely bad.

 

[Babs3204]

Well the breaker tripped again. I would have sworn by watching it the whole time that it was charging because the first and second LED were solid blue in the third one was blinking. Then after an hour or so the first two lights went out and the third one was blinking which I believe is the 12 volt battery charging, but then I look a few minutes later and all the lights are out and the evse has no power. So I disconnect the Nissan evse and plug back in the 16amp one I was using for the Focus Electric for several years and it clicks green and starts charging then seconds later it starts flashing "fault" . So then I plugged the Nissan one back in and plugged it into the car and stood there and stared at it for several minutes and during the course of doing that it would look like it was charging normally with the ready and power lights on then it would click and blink fault for just a second then go back to normal.

 

[Babs3204]

Well apparently I need to go back to school. I went back again and took a much closer look at the main breaker panel on the back of the house which of course has the offshoot for the evse outlet and I could just see that one of the two switches was slightly tripped which apparently still leaves enough of the circuit closed to supply power to the outlet. Reset the breaker box and the car seems to be charging normally. In this old 1950s house in the summertime if you run the microwave and one appliance too many in the kitchen it trips that circuit and apparently that day it caused that one to trip also for some reason. The car doesn't start charging until midnight even if it's plugged in.

 

[cornbinder89]

Who wired in the outlet? By code it should be a 2 pole breaker that is internally tied, so if one side tripped it trips the other. Also because it is in a garage or "wet" environment, it needs to be a GFI breaker. From your description it sounds like neither of these are true.
From your description it sounds like someone used 2 single pole breakers and tried to externally tie them together!

 

[Stanton]

In this old 1950s house in the summertime if you run the microwave and one appliance too many in the kitchen it trips that circuit and apparently that day it caused that one to trip also for some reason.

If you had lead with that (in your first post), it probably would have saved some trouble.
You need to have the entire wiring path your EVSE is on checked out by a (licensed) electrician as there may be serious age/design issues. The previous post (to this one) is only 1 example. Be safe!

 

[Deleted member 40609]

Anything that causes a 50 CB to trip is concerning. Being that it is in a garage, it should be a GFI breaker. It is possible that there is a ground fault, or it is possible that there is some heat damage to the receptacle.
Look for any damage to the EVSE cabling, Have the 50 amp circuit inspected. The EVSE should, along with the cars OBC shut down or not start if there is a problem from the EVSE to the car, so tripping the CB for the 50 amp feed, makes me think that needs to be checked. Loose connection and/or overheated connections are a possibility.
You could also check and see if it charges L2 at another location, that would rule out your EVSE and car, leaving the house wiring the only possibility.

Just for grins I would plug into the level one charger that came with the car and see if it charges up over night If it does then its either a short in the wiring from the breaker panel to the level 2 charger or theres a short between the level two changer handle and the vehicle. To trip a 50 amp breaker means either you have a ground issue or water infiltration at the charge port in your vehicle or the charge handle at your vehicle which could trip a GFCI (if installed) at your panel. My level two charger has adjustable amperage output so I keep mine at 27 to 32 amps even though its rated continuous duty at 40 amps. Let us know what you did to cure the issue enquiring minds want to know.

 

[KennyCh]

Well apparently I need to go back to school. I went back again and took a much closer look at the main breaker panel on the back of the house which of course has the offshoot for the evse outlet and I could just see that one of the two switches was slightly tripped which apparently still leaves enough of the circuit closed to supply power to the outlet. Reset the breaker box and the car seems to be charging normally. In this old 1950s house in the summertime if you run the microwave and one appliance too many in the kitchen it trips that circuit and apparently that day it caused that one to trip also for some reason. The car doesn't start charging until midnight even if it's plugged in.

Good! Glad you found the issue!

 

[cornbinder89]

Just for grins I would plug into the level one charger that came with the car and see if it charges up over night If it does then its either a short in the wiring from the breaker panel to the level 2 charger or theres a short between the level two changer handle and the vehicle. To trip a 50 amp breaker means either you have a ground issue or water infiltration at the charge port in your vehicle or the charge handle at your vehicle which could trip a GFCI (if installed) at your panel. My level two charger has adjustable amperage output so I keep mine at 27 to 32 amps even though its rated continuous duty at 40 amps. Let us know what you did to cure the issue enquiring minds want to know.

This post below says it all where the problem is concerned, improper wiring from the breaker panel to the EVSE.

Well apparently I need to go back to school. I went back again and took a much closer look at the main breaker panel on the back of the house which of course has the offshoot for the evse outlet and I could just see that one of the two switches was slightly tripped which apparently still leaves enough of the circuit closed to supply power to the outlet. Reset the breaker box and the car seems to be charging normally. In this old 1950s house in the summertime if you run the microwave and one appliance too many in the kitchen it trips that circuit and apparently that day it caused that one to trip also for some reason. The car doesn't start charging until midnight even if it's plugged in.

Which is why I posted what I did after it.
Two pole breakers with GFI are required, not optional!

 

[Babs3204]

This post below says it all where the problem is concerned, improper wiring from the breaker panel to the EVSE.

Which is why I posted what I did after it.
Two pole breakers with GFI are required, not optional!

The two pole GFCI breaker is in the sub panel that has the wiring that runs to the Nema outlet and evse not in the main house panel that it comes off of.

 

[cornbinder89]

Ok, which breaker is 1/2 tripping? properly wired, that should never be possible. 2 pole breakers must have an internal trip, so when one 1/2 trips the other is de energized.
I'm not there, I can only go by what you report. So by the sounds of you description, some 2 pole breaker, and it sounded like the one for the EVSE, is not internally tied. Also 1/2 feed should trip a GFI as the load on 1/2 would not equal the other 1/2.
Time to bring in a qualified set of eyes to look over the whole electrical system, before it starts a fire, not after.

I could just see that one of the two switches was slightly tripped which apparently still leaves enough of the circuit closed to supply power to the outlet.

This certainly make it seam like it is the feed to the EVSE outlet that is "1/2 tripping" and it doesn't seam like a modern GFI breaker. Regardless, it is not working as it should if proper breaker is used. SOmeone needs to inspect this!
edit:
A GFI breaker will have a "push to test" button on the breaker itself, it MUST cut power to both legs when the button is pressed.

 

[Deleted member 40609]

This post below says it all where the problem is concerned, improper wiring from the breaker panel to the EVSE.

Which is why I posted what I did after it.
Two pole breakers with GFI are required, not optional!

Its always good to hear a cure was found...Good job inspector Clouseau! Might I add just for grins I would definitely replace the sticky 50 Amp breaker as that can lead to a fire or worse and for the use of kitchen appliances to trip the main over the individual breakers tells me the wire gauge to the appliance circuit is larger than the breakers rating which a huge no no! Kitchen Appliance circuit breakers should be rated at 20 AMP with the wire being 12 gauge. If your running 10 gauge or larger gauge wire it can lead to the breaker failing to trip at all, and that leads to a BBQ without the beef. If that's not your particular case then for precautionary measures I would also replace the main Breaker as well as your sticky 50 Amp Breaker. Remember each time you trip a breaker it's like a cat losing one of its 9 lives eventually it wont reset leaving you without any power! These days breakers are cheap if you buy them at a local electrical supply outlet... not Homer Depot. Good luck and be safe!

 

[marshallinwash]

Who wired in the outlet? By code it should be a 2 pole breaker that is internally tied, so if one side tripped it trips the other. Also because it is in a garage or "wet" environment, it needs to be a GFI breaker. From your description it sounds like neither of these are true.
From your description it sounds like someone used 2 single pole breakers and tried to externally tie them together!

Not every jurisdiction follows the latest NEC code. Besides his unit was wired before it was code in California.

Frankly, a GIF breaker is really not necessary unless one is going to plug something else into the receptacle, extension cord, welder and so on. I suspect that's the real reason why the NEC code requires it. After all, if you hard-wire it, NEC code doesn't require a GIF breaker.

 

[cornbinder89]

Not every jurisdiction follows the latest NEC code. Besides his unit was wired before it was code in California.

Frankly, a GIF breaker is really not necessary unless one is going to plug something else into the receptacle, extension cord, welder and so on. I suspect that's the real reason why the NEC code requires it. After all, if you hard-wire it, NEC code doesn't require a GIF breaker.

GFI in garage/wet environment has been around for a while, before EV's I'd be surprised that his install pre dates the GFI requirement.
GFI breaker not required on "hard wire" because the GFI is in the EVSE, GFI is required on a outlet because there is the connection being made and there is a chance for contact/leakage.
More important than the GFI (although I consider that important also) is the in-complete tripping of a two pole breaker. That hasn't been resolve as far as I can tell, and is a bigger hazard then the lack of GFI.

My house pre dates the NEC (built in 1900) but that does get me out of following code on new installations. The cabling to my EV outlet has to meet current code, which means inside conduit, GFI breaker, it can be three or four wire, I elected 4 for versatility. The fact his house was wired in the 50's doesn't make the tap-off and outlet only having to meet 50's code. It is new installation, and therefore must meet current codes.

 

[cornbinder89]

Quick goggle search: I can't attest to the accuracy.

When did GFCI become required in garage?


GFCIs (ground-fault circuit-interrupters)

GFCIs have been required by the NEC since 1971. Initially they were required for all outdoor receptacles, and bathrooms were added as a requirement in 1975.

 

[countryleaf]

When my car charger outlet was installed in the garage in 2012, it was done by a licensed electrician and inspected by the county inspector. It is not GFCI, however, my garage outlets breaker is GFCI (installed in 1986). Western Washington State.

 

[cornbinder89]

When my car charger outlet was installed in the garage in 2012, it was done by a licensed electrician and inspected by the county inspector. It is not GFCI, however, my garage outlets breaker is GFCI (installed in 1986). Western Washington State.

Hardwire would not require one, to my knowledge. An outlet would under current code as I understand it.

My brother had a Hot Tub installed somewhere around 2000 and that required a GFI (50 amp 240 volt) breaker. So I assume that it has been required since then, but haven't looked it up either.
When I ran mine, I use a GFI breaker, because it was not hard wired (outlet), but more than that, it just makes sense.
None of the GFI talk addresses the far more concerning issue of the "partial breaker trip" which is far bigger issue.
As a side note, his house still has some K&T wiring in service! So on one hand, the Hot tub had to have a GFI and everything run in conduit and another circuit was still K&T! Old install vs. new in a nutshell!

 

[countryleaf]

It is an outlet. I believe hot tubs are a special case, when I installed my Jacuzzi tub (not outside, not on concrete, inside the house) a GFCI was required (hard wired).

I agree on the OP's issue with their breaker needs to be addressed!