Does anyone have or use a 12v Automotive Lithium battery?

[toasty]

Does anyone have or use a 12v (volt) Lithium battery? (automotive / powersport)




I was on amazon today, (and ebay) and noticed they now have powersport/motorcycle/mower 12v start batteries.
that can use the same chargeing systems in regular 12v vehicles.


1. 7-9Ah $82 - Battery tender brand

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F9LPIAC...UTF8&colid=O6NEQB4YAAKQ&coliid=I2BJOVP4AEIN3U

1. 9-12Ah for $99 - off name


http://www.amazon.com/YTZ14S-Z14S-L...bs_auto_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=08MPTY4XBH6TFVKWVXE8


Replace your lead acid powersport battery with the newest technology from the name you trust: Battery Tender. Deltran Battery Tender's line of Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) engine start batteries feature a maximum charge rate of up to 10 amps and are designed to replace flooded, AGM, and gel cell lead acid batteries in power sport applications such as motorcycles, ATVs, personal water craft, lawn mowers, utility vehicles, scooters, and dirt bikes. Battery Tender Lithium batteries are up to 80% lighter than equivalent lead-acid batteries. And since Lithium batteries cannot sulphate, you can enjoy safer operation and better long-term storage.

Max charge rate 10 amps
Operating temperature 14-140 degrees Fahrenheit
Up to 80% lighter than Lead Acid equivalent
Quad Terminal design can be mounted in any direction
Lithium batteries cannot sulphate
Works with Battery Tender's line of battery chargers (sold separately)
CE and UN 38.3 approved
3-year limited warranty

Versatile Top or Front Cable Installation

The Battery Tender Lithium battery allows the cable eyelets to be either connected from the top or front side of the terminals. Choose the side that matches your configuration the best. The battery comes with the hardware needed to attach the terminal rings to your battery. This Quad Terminal design allows for maximum mounting flexibility, as all terminals are live.
Better Long-Term Storage

Compared to lead-acid batteries, the Battery Tender Lithium battery has less than 5% the average self-discharge rate and can be stored for much longer periods without maintenance. If there is no current draw from your vehicle when your ignition is off, the Battery Tender Lithium battery can be stored for up to one year without damage. For long term storage the ideal temperature is 1ºC (34ºF). The battery should be stored in a minimum charge state of 70%. Battery Tender Lithium batteries should not be used in temperatures below -10ºC (14ºF).
Recharge with Battery Tender Chargers

All Deltran Battery Tender Lithium batteries can be recharged using Battery Tender's line of battery chargers (sold separately). Battery Tender chargers are the convenient solution to the challenge of keeping 12-volt vehicle batteries optimally powered when not in use. The line of chargers can also charge standard and sealed AGM and gel cell batteries, so it's an ideal tool to keep all your 12V batteries running.
3-Year Limited Warranty

Deltran provides a limited 3-year warranty on its Battery Tender Lithium batteries to the original purchaser based on defective material or workmanship. Warranty is void in cases of product misuse, disassembly or modification. Other details regarding warranty limitations and procedures are contained in the Deltran Battery Tender Charger's general limited warranty information sheet enclosed with this product.



Has anyone here used one?

 

[Stoaty]

See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11999" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and

http://stanton.myevblog.com/2012/01/16/getting-the-lead-out/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[mctom987]

I have one on my R6. Motorcycle, but I still swapped out the SLA for Li.

 

[Lucky]

10 amps is waaay to little. 100 amps maybe.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The OEM battery is rated at 20 or 30AH, IIRC, and about 10AH of that isn't available because of Peukert's Law. I wouldn't use a 10AH battery in a Leaf, but the argument can be made...

 

[NeguE]

Lead-acid have a different charging parameters compared with a Li/Na

If the Li/Na need a small inverter to be charge in safe condition.
Be sure that 12v replacement have a inverter built-in

 

[Learjet]

this one has been working well for me https://www.ohmmu.com/product-page/12v-lithium-battery-for-nissan-leaf

 

[flydiver]

Lead-acid have a different charging parameters compared with a Li/Na

If the Li/Na need a small inverter to be charge in safe condition.
Be sure that 12v replacement have a inverter built-in

Inverter? Those are designed to create household alternating-current power from the direct-current power supplied throughout the vehicle.
I think you mean the BMS=battery management system.
Those control the charge, discharge, and (hopefully), the cell balancing. The BMS provides a critical safety function. Very inexpensive LiFePO4 (motocycle) may not have a BMS. The BMS for storage type batteries may not be designed for the rigors of an automobile.
The problem is finding something that actually HAS an AUTOMOTIVE capable BMS. Too much of the information on sales websites is erroneous, deceiving, or pure crap.

 

[NeguE]

Inverter? Those are designed to create household alternating-current power from the direct-current power supplied throughout the vehicle.
I think you mean the BMS=battery management system.
Those control the charge, discharge, and (hopefully), the cell balancing. The BMS provides a critical safety function. Very inexpensive LiFePO4 (motocycle) may not have a BMS. The BMS for storage type batteries may not be designed for the rigors of an automobile.
The problem is finding something that actually HAS an AUTOMOTIVE capable BMS. Too much of the information on sales websites is erroneous, deceiving, or pure crap.

Usually, BMS is a battery management.
Him control Amps charge/discharge, balancing and send info to inverter set a voltage when charge battery.
A normal car don't have a intelligent inverter , only a normal alternator.
I see that normal cars send 14.4v in electrical sistem but :
NMC need 16.8V (4*4.2V ) to charge near 100%
LFP need 14.2V (4*3.6V ) for ~100%

Why I say that ?
A photovoltaic system build up for AGM battery, is not recommended to use a Li* battery NMC/LFP.

Ask ChatGPT to understand why.
From there I understand way is no good to use a Li* battery in a 12V normal system.

Indeed , if the Li* battery have a better setup ( let say advanced BMS) that's OK but if have only 4 cells in that battery with a normal BMS , that's no good.

 

[k9spud]

I see that normal cars send 14.4v in electrical sistem but :
(...)
LFP need 14.2V (4*3.6V ) for ~100%

Check your math on the LFP: 4 * 3.6V = 14.4V, not 14.2V!

If you read the datasheet on pretty much any LFP cell, the manufacturers say 3.65V per cell is the maximum voltage at which to terminate charging. So you likely have even more head room: 4 * 3.65V = 14.6V.

In practice, when an LFP approaches full state of charge (3.40 to 3.65V/cell), its voltage will rise very quickly. Thus it is safer to avoid trying to hit the full 3.65V/cell unless you're charging at a very slow rate. Hopefully your BMS is fast enough to keep all cells equalized, so that no cell ever exceeds 3.65V during charging!

To prevent the LEAF from charging my 12V LFP battery too fast, I used a 23ft length of 16awg wire acting as a 0.09 ohm current limiting resistor. The highest voltage I've seen my LEAF output is 14.5V and my LFP battery is 30Ah, so I sized the length of wire to keep current under 30A (1C).

To allow the car plenty of current out of the 12V LFP in the discharging direction, I used a high current diode in parallel with my resistor wire. This way, the car can apply full current to the contactor relays when you turn on the car, allowing them to snap into position more vigorously/quickly. Without that high current pathway, the car's relay contacts might wear out more quickly.

I've been using an ECO-WORTHY 12V 30Ah LFP battery since Sept 2022. It's been trouble free and still working great. The only thing to consider is LFP batteries must not be charged below freezing. Luckily, I haven't had much risk of freezing here in Arizona.

 

[NeguE]

Check your math on the LFP: 4 * 3.6V = 14.4V, not 14.2V!

Yep. Indeed.
I was to lazy to edit again

What about float voltage for LFP ? How did you manage it ?

 

[k9spud]

Not sure why float voltage would be a concern. Could you elaborate?

Looking at how lead acid batteries are typically charged here:

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-403-charging-lead-acid

Stage 1. Constant current up to a "topping voltage."
Stage 2. Topping charge. Ranges from 2.30 to 2.45V/cell (13.8V to 14.7V)
Stage 3. Float charge. Ranges from 2.25 to 2.27V/cell (13.5V to 13.62V)

The stage 2 "topping charge" of up to 14.7V was what I was worried about because 14.7/4 = 3.675V/cell, which is beyond what LFP is supposed to be charged to.

As it turns out though, the LEAF is notorious for under charging 12V lead acid batteries. I have a little 12V cigarette lighter volt meter I got on eBay that I always keep plugged into my car and I've never seen my LEAF outtputting anything higher than 14.5V. Granted, I don't have a precision voltage logging system to see if the car is sneakily outputting more when I'm not looking, and other model years could have changed the car's algorithms, so who knows? Maybe my LFP will bulge out and need replacing someday, but so far things seem fine.

 

[Radek Uchytil]

I have a 20 Ah LFP battery from Conexpro...

 

[aqn]

I have a 20 Ah LFP battery from Conexpro...

It's amusing that you can now keep the OEM J1772 bag next to the battery!

What year is your LEAF?

 

[Radek Uchytil]

It's amusing that you can now keep the OEM J1772 bag next to the battery!

What year is your LEAF?

2016 30 kWh Tekna, SOH 82%