Fenix Power - Took money and but never delivered

[Marktm]

Did anyone actually watch the entire video and if you did, please summarize for us :lol:

 

[cwerdna]

I kinda watched from about the mark powersurge pointed to +7 minutes. It might help to use the gear icon to speed up playback. From what I gathered, they're getting a much higher refund request rate than before and are having cash flow issues (e.g. investors backing out and now waiting for govt COVID-19 $) w/processing them.

He mentioned 60 refunds they need to work through. IMHO, if they can't handle that, they have very little $ on hand.

But yeah, I think this should be all be merged w/an existing Fenix thread.

I definitely have no time nor inclination to watch the whole thing as my chances of being their customer/ponying up any $ are 0.

 

[powersurge]

I don't understand - - -

How I was trying to be helpful and posted a New and Current update to a previously highly discussed topic that I found..
A new, informational post... Not even a personal opinion...

And what do I get?

1) That it should have been posted under a different topic.
2) I should summarize it for them.
3) The video was too long and they couldn't be bothered watching the whole thing.
4) Why am I even talking about this to begin with?

You know, this site calls itself a Community.

However, ever since I joined this forum five years ago, almost every post that I have made has been met with unnecessary counter-arguments, criticism, put downs, and even blatant personal insults....

Gentlemen, I have have always noted your obsessive need to find the polar opposites to the ideas of others (in order to raise your personal self esteem). Seeing how the group of individuals have responded to this last non-controversial, informational post of mine, I can tell you that I do not want to continue being a member of this club.

You can continue social distancing in your basements, nitpicking the posts of others all day long. I will be going outside in the sun, to newly-opened stores and walking on the "dangerous" virus infected local beaches. Bye, Felicia..

 

[cwerdna]

Ouch.

1) Yes. As a general rule, this forum has tried to avoid too many new topics (https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=2499) as there are too many as it is.

Some mods (esp. previously active ones) were pretty...ummm... strict about enforcing this and expressing their opinions on this. Examples:
https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=55135#p55135
https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=156614#p156614

2) No. I don't think it was a request for you to summarize. Anyone else can do it who feels inclined to, or not. I was merely asking if there was something you were pointing out a the time index into the video your link points to vs. one that might point to the beginning or some other time index.

3) Yes. But you didn't create the video, AFAIK.

Just because people reply to a topic doesn't mean it's an insult or negativity directed at you. People may discuss.

 

[Nubo]

I don't understand - - -

How I was trying to be helpful and posted a New and Current update to a previously highly discussed topic that I found..
A new, informational post... Not even a personal opinion...

And what do I get?

1) That it should have been posted under a different topic.
2) I should summarize it for them.
3) The video was too long and they couldn't be bothered watching the whole thing.
4) Why am I even talking about this to begin with?

You know, this site calls itself a Community.

However, ever since I joined this forum five years ago, almost every post that I have made has been met with unnecessary counter-arguments, criticism, put downs, and even blatant personal insults....

Gentlemen, I have have always noted your obsessive need to find the polar opposites to the ideas of others (in order to raise your personal self esteem). Seeing how the group of individuals have responded to this last non-controversial, informational post of mine, I can tell you that I do not want to continue being a member of this club.

You can continue social distancing in your basements, nitpicking the posts of others all day long. I will be going outside in the sun, to newly-opened stores and walking on the "dangerous" virus infected local beaches. Bye, Felicia..

I don't see anything wrong with your post. The question of whether or not it should be a new topic isn't an unusual one and isn't somethinig to have hurt feelings about. The other points are criticisms of the video itself and/or the progress (or lack) of Fenix to this point -- not you.

I'm curious to see a summary from *someone* as well, I turned it off as the tales of woe showed no signs of letting up and I really don't have any skin in the game, though I might be interested if they ever get a real product out.

 

[Oilpan4]

They missed their chance to carve out a market niche.
The only opportunity they had was when Nissan locked down battery replacements at $8,500 each and there was no way to do any kind of range upgrade.
Now you can get a new bigger battery for $5,500 from Nissan or an upgrade to the big Nissan battery for several thousand more.
Fenix is irrelevant now.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

They missed their chance to carve out a market niche.
The only opportunity they had was when Nissan locked down battery replacements at $8,500 each and there was no way to do any kind of range upgrade.
Now you can get a new bigger battery for $5,500 from Nissan or an upgrade to the big Nissan battery for several thousand more.
Fenix is irrelevant now.

What new bigger battery for $5500?

 

[Oilpan4]

Get a Nissan replacement.
Aren't they all "30kwh" packs and $5,500?
Well really $6,500 after labor, taxes, fees ect.

 

[cwerdna]

Get a Nissan replacement.
Aren't they all "30kwh" packs and $5,500?
Well really $6,500 after labor, taxes, fees ect.

Per TSB I pointed to at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=583639#p583639, the 30 kWh pack is discontinued.

For 30 kWh Leafs who need replacements, (per above TSB) Nissan dealers are putting in 40 kWh packs, at least starting around Jan 7, 2020.

I've only skimmed NTB14-059d (https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10171223-0001.pdf) but it seems to imply that '11 to '15 Leafs and original '16 S still only get 24 kWh packs. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I've only skimmed NTB14-059d (https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/ ... 3-0001.pdf) but it seems to imply that '11 to '15 Leafs and original '16 S still only get 24 kWh packs. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That is the last word we had from Nissan on this. I wonder if the minimal calendar degradation of the Lizard pack had prompted Nissan to make a large number of them after those reserved for production were gone. They may keep them on hand for years as 'New Old Stock'.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Get a Nissan replacement.
Aren't they all "30kwh" packs and $5,500?
Well really $6,500 after labor, taxes, fees ect.

No, the 24 kwh pack is $4500 with "required" exchange plus labor and any parts if needed. The 30 kwh pack is no longer available and this rumor really seems to have legs. Gary is claiming the same thing.

 

[gncndad]

...and my OEM Lizard 2015 LeafS, TX heat, is at 5 years, 37k miles, 11bars, 80m on the GOM. Either I was lucky, or they finally had the 24kWh figured out. No regrets, functioning as designed/promised.

 

[goldbrick]

it seems to imply that '11 to '15 Leafs and original '16 S still only get 24 kWh packs. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That's my take-away also. It's all right there in the flow-chart. :ugeek: I see a lot of this kind of thing since many of my work colleagues live in Japan. It's a great way to communicate since my Japanese is non-existent....

The bulletin also shows the battery case modifications required for 2011-2012 Leaf's to use the replacement pack. I didn't know that was needed. I assume the same mods could be made to put a 40kWh pack into a 2011-2012.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

it seems to imply that '11 to '15 Leafs and original '16 S still only get 24 kWh packs. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That's my take-away also. It's all right there in the flow-chart. :ugeek: I see a lot of this kind of thing since many of my work colleagues live in Japan. It's a great way to communicate since my Japanese is non-existent....

The bulletin also shows the battery case modifications required for 2011-2012 Leaf's to use the replacement pack. I didn't know that was needed. I assume the same mods could be made to put a 40kWh pack into a 2011-2012.

Remember TaylorSFGuy? First one in the US (probably the World) to go 100,000 miles on a LEAF?

Here is a story of that very same car.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2020/03/leaf-battery-upgrades-comes-to.html

 

[Oilpan4]

Wow nissan is really trying to not give any upgrades.
That's good that the total price is 5500 and not starting at 5500.

 

[jlv]

He mentioned 60 refunds they need to work through. IMHO, if they can't handle that, they have very little $ on hand.

9:50 It sounded like he said 16 people in the backlog of refunds, and that he now says they can take up to 90 days to get you a refund of your deposit. Then he added "before all this, we were processing them [refunds] in the same day..."

9:02 But, that was just after he said he was planning on using the "Small Business Emergency Loan Distribution Advance" to cover making (future) refunds.

 

[GaleHawkins]

Here is a recent hour-long video on Youtube..

I will not comment on this, but let you interpret it yourself..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sdXa0TKWxs&t=195s

Thanks for the link. Having 650 pre release sales showed a lot of interest in Leaf replacement batteries. Not having a net work of contracted installers and the parts to install batteries post pandemic and the refund demands when already forging for cash then losing two investors back to back must be a triple blow.

He sounds sincere but just ran out of time and cash at the same time of a major pandemic.

 

[palmermd]

He sounds sincere but just ran out of time and cash at the same time of a major pandemic.

He does, but in my view his big mistake was using the customer deposits as funding for the development. He should have held the funds in an escrow account and used the account as leverage to get investor money for the development of the product. Then he could easily refund any and every deposit the moment any of them asked for one returned. And the only ones putting money at risk are the founders and any additional investors that get brought in to develop the product. So sad that so many people are getting caught up in this. The idea is great, but the execution is not going as well. I hope they find a way to eventually get a product to market as there really is a need for their product. But given the delays to date, I don't have high expectations from this company.

 

[GaleHawkins]

He sounds sincere but just ran out of time and cash at the same time of a major pandemic.

He does, but in my view his big mistake was using the customer deposits as funding for the development. He should have held the funds in an escrow account and used the account as leverage to get investor money for the development of the product. Then he could easily refund any and every deposit the moment any of them asked for one returned. And the only ones putting money at risk are the founders and any additional investors that get brought in to develop the product. So sad that so many people are getting caught up in this. The idea is great, but the execution is not going as well. I hope they find a way to eventually get a product to market as there really is a need for their product. But given the delays to date, I don't have high expectations from this company.

When the investors with inside knowledge cut their loss by pulling financial support the hand writing on the wall is clear as day. After the trouble I had getting the new Nissan battery in our 2016 SL the first of this year was the first I knew about Nissan Corp being at risk of failure. I was thankful our new battery started out with a SOH of 99.87%

If the guy in the video has been on the job since 2016 I really do not understand why they did not start filling orders a few years ago?

 

[cwerdna]

Having 650 pre release sales showed a lot of interest in Leaf replacement batteries.

If 650 is the count, I'm not sure if you're serious in terms of "a lot". IIRC, US Leaf sales are a bit north of 140K units total. If we assume all 650 of those are in the US, that's under 0.5% of Leafs.

In comparison, in the US alone, Tesla was selling an average of over 13K Model 3's each month in 2019 (https://insideevs.com/news/343998/monthly-plug-in-ev-sales-scorecard/).

Even Chevy was selling ~1.3K Bolts/month in the US.

He mentioned 60 refunds they need to work through. IMHO, if they can't handle that, they have very little $ on hand.

9:50 It sounded like he said 16 people in the backlog of refunds, and that he now says they can take up to 90 days to get you a refund of your deposit. Then he added "before all this, we were processing them [refunds] in the same day..."

Thank you for the correction. It does sound like 16, now that you mention it.

I wasn't listening carefully and probably had the speed turned up. Still isn't a great sign of their financial situation if they can't refund 16 people in a timely fashion. If it takes an hour per refund and someone spends 4 hours/day on these, they'd be done in 4 days, if there were funds available.