Finally settled on a 2024 Hyundai Ioniq 5 SEL AWD -- a big upgrade over the 2011 Nissan Leaf

[yoobb]

I owned a 2011 Nissan Leaf until 2014, when I got my Toyota Prius Plugin. I recently got a 2024 Hyundai Ioniq 5 SEL AWD, finally breaking my 10 year streak without a full BEV. I'll always be proud of being an early Leaf owner, and of Nissan's pioneering role in the modern EV. Now, I'm happy to be driving an Ioniq 5, while waiting for an Aptera.

The Ioniq 5 AWD is quite the performance improvement over the 2011 Leaf, doing the 0-60 acceleration in less than half the time that the 2011 Leaf takes. The 260 mile range eclipses the 72 miles of the 2011 Leaf. A fancy liquid cooling system (still lacking in the Leaf AFAIK) gives me 85% or more of my normal range in freezing temperatures. The 2024 model has the CCS connector, derived from the Leaf's J1772 connector. DC fast charging is through the CCS, not the Leaf's ChaDeMo that never caught on. The recently standardized NACS port will appear on 2025 models, so I've settled on installing a J1772 L2 charger at home, with plans to use a J1772 to NACS adapter in the future.

The driver assist features on the Ioniq 5 SEL (2024) are... conveniences. Lane keeping assist and adaptive cruise control are useful in highway driving. Used with the speed limit change warning, the adaptive cruise control should practically guarantee I don't get a speeding ticket on the highway. It's a long ways off from worry-free, hands-off driving (which it's not designed for). I'm thinking of getting a Comma 3x self-driving system, someday, if I keep the Ioniq 5 beyond the 13 month lease.

One quibble with the Ioniq 5: The battery conditioning (heating in cold temperatures) is activated in a very restricted way. You have to select an EV Charging Station in the Ioniq 5's navigation system. Using Google or Apple Map through CarPlay will NOT activate battery conditioning. About 30 minutes or 35 miles before arrival time, the battery conditioning heater will activate, if the battery is cold enough to warrant. Hyundai clearly intended for this to be a convenient way for battery conditioning to be activated when appropriate without the driver having to worry about it. Many owners would prefer more control, to be able to definitively turn on battery conditioning when desired. I haven't made my own judgement on that yet. If the existing method consistently works, I'm inclined to be satisfied with it. I'm still perplexed that Nissan very deliberately gave up leadership in EVs to the likes of Tesla and now, Hyundai. Talk about snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory!

One concern: there has been repeated recalls of the Integrated Charging Control Unit (ICCU). Yes, that critical piece of equipment. It's the classic case where the vast majority of owners seem to be unaffected, but there's enough people that are affected that it is an ongoing issue. If you want a reason to stick with the Leaf a little longer, instead of upgrading to a Hyundai EV, this would be the most compelling reason I can think of. Other than the inconvenience of coming in for the recall service (just a software update) less than two weeks after start of my lease, I seem to have escape any serious issues (knocking on wood).

Beyond the Hyundai Ioniq 5, my dream car (which I have reserved) is the Aptera. If I keep the Ioniq 5 beyond the 13 month lease, and my Aptera gets delivered, the Aptera will likely replace my 2014 Toyota Prius Plugin, which has served (and continues to serve) me well.

I'll always have fond memories of being an early U.S. Leaf owner, alongside the range anxiety trauma of 72 miles nominal range, with first "range bar" disappearing at about 24,000 miles on the odometer. A quick Google search is showing me certified Leafs under $15k, and used 2012 models under $5,000. What a deal, if you're not intent on getting AWD and liquid battery cooling, as I was.

Anyway, I just thought I would share which EV ultimately replaced the 2011 Nissan Leaf I gave up ten years ago.

 

[nlspace]

while waiting for an Aptera.
my dream car (which I have reserved) is the Aptera

and my Aptera gets delivered.

Somebody drank the aptera ponzi koolaid.

Any day now they are starting production, just have to find that last 0.001% of efficiency that will make it work--have been hearing this for the past 10 years, same website pictures for the last 5.

Now if only they can find some batteries to support the extreme efficiency claims (will have the highest of any EV).

 

[Stanton]

Congrats on your purchase; The Gen1 Leaf was one of the best "version 1.0" of anything I have ever had.
If they had been able to sell a 40kWh version of it (which is effectively what I've been driving since I upgrade my battery pack a couple years ago) and changed nothing else...that car would have sold millions.

 

[johnlocke]

and my Aptera gets delivered.

Somebody drank the aptera ponzi koolaid.

Any day now they are starting production, just have to find that last 0.001% of efficiency that will make it work--have been hearing this for the past 10 years, same website pictures for the last 5.

Now if only they can find some batteries to support the extreme efficiency claims (will have the highest of any EV).

I also have a reservation for an Aptera but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it. As usual, the delivered product varies wildly from the promised one. Price has gone up, competition is here in the form of lower cost 4 door EV's, and the Rebates have disappeared making a 2 seater autocycle a tough sell. I'll wait and see if it makes it to production and what the finished product is. It could be enough fun to drive to overcome it's faults. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Brian Ferguson]

I owned a 2011 Nissan Leaf until 2014, when I got my Toyota Prius Plugin. I recently got a 2024 Hyundai Ioniq 5 SEL AWD, finally breaking my 10 year streak without a full BEV. I'll always be proud of being an early Leaf owner, and of Nissan's pioneering role in the modern EV. Now, I'm happy to be driving an Ioniq 5, while waiting for an Aptera.

The Ioniq 5 AWD is quite the performance improvement over the 2011 Leaf, doing the 0-60 acceleration in less than half the time that the 2011 Leaf takes. The 260 mile range eclipses the 72 miles of the 2011 Leaf. A fancy liquid cooling system (still lacking in the Leaf AFAIK) gives me 85% or more of my normal range in freezing temperatures. The 2024 model has the CCS connector, derived from the Leaf's J1772 connector. DC fast charging is through the CCS, not the Leaf's ChaDeMo that never caught on. The recently standardized NACS port will appear on 2025 models, so I've settled on installing a J1772 L2 charger at home, with plans to use a J1772 to NACS adapter in the future.

The driver assist features on the Ioniq 5 SEL (2024) are... conveniences. Lane keeping assist and adaptive cruise control are useful in highway driving. Used with the speed limit change warning, the adaptive cruise control should practically guarantee I don't get a speeding ticket on the highway. It's a long ways off from worry-free, hands-off driving (which it's not designed for). I'm thinking of getting a Comma 3x self-driving system, someday, if I keep the Ioniq 5 beyond the 13 month lease.

One quibble with the Ioniq 5: The battery conditioning (heating in cold temperatures) is activated in a very restricted way. You have to select an EV Charging Station in the Ioniq 5's navigation system. Using Google or Apple Map through CarPlay will NOT activate battery conditioning. About 30 minutes or 35 miles before arrival time, the battery conditioning heater will activate, if the battery is cold enough to warrant. Hyundai clearly intended for this to be a convenient way for battery conditioning to be activated when appropriate without the driver having to worry about it. Many owners would prefer more control, to be able to definitively turn on battery conditioning when desired. I haven't made my own judgement on that yet. If the existing method consistently works, I'm inclined to be satisfied with it. I'm still perplexed that Nissan very deliberately gave up leadership in EVs to the likes of Tesla and now, Hyundai. Talk about snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory!

One concern: there has been repeated recalls of the Integrated Charging Control Unit (ICCU). Yes, that critical piece of equipment. It's the classic case where the vast majority of owners seem to be unaffected, but there's enough people that are affected that it is an ongoing issue. If you want a reason to stick with the Leaf a little longer, instead of upgrading to a Hyundai EV, this would be the most compelling reason I can think of. Other than the inconvenience of coming in for the recall service (just a software update) less than two weeks after start of my lease, I seem to have escape any serious issues (knocking on wood).

Beyond the Hyundai Ioniq 5, my dream car (which I have reserved) is the Aptera. If I keep the Ioniq 5 beyond the 13 month lease, and my Aptera gets delivered, the Aptera will likely replace my 2014 Toyota Prius Plugin, which has served (and continues to serve) me well.

I'll always have fond memories of being an early U.S. Leaf owner, alongside the range anxiety trauma of 72 miles nominal range, with first "range bar" disappearing at about 24,000 miles on the odometer. A quick Google search is showing me certified Leafs under $15k, and used 2012 models under $5,000. What a deal, if you're not intent on getting AWD and liquid battery cooling, as I was.

Anyway, I just thought I would share which EV ultimately replaced the 2011 Nissan Leaf I gave up ten years ago.

Agree with everything you said except You may wait a long long long …. Time for an Aptera !

 

[bobray99]

As I write this they are replacing my telematics module. Hopefully that will fix the connection problem. I learned that they are no longer doing the HVAC recall due to the complaints

 

[orca]

I have a 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 6 which is similar to the 5. No problems with the Integrated Charging Control Unit (ICCU) other than 3 recalls to update the SW. My only real complaint is the size of the car. It is much bigger that my 2019 Leaf SV Plus and barely fits into the garage. The driver assist is also very similar to the Pro Pilot assist in the Leaf. The 6 is really fast and handles great. Both cars have been very dependable so far. The Leaf still shows 100% on the battery after almost 60000 miles.

 

[lorenfb]

I owned a 2011 Nissan Leaf until 2014, when I got my Toyota Prius Plugin. I recently got a 2024 Hyundai Ioniq 5 SEL AWD, finally breaking my 10 year streak without a full BEV. I'll always be proud of being an early Leaf owner, and of Nissan's pioneering role in the modern EV. Now, I'm happy to be driving an Ioniq 5, while waiting for an Aptera.

The Ioniq 5 AWD is quite the performance improvement over the 2011 Leaf, doing the 0-60 acceleration in less than half the time that the 2011 Leaf takes. The 260 mile range eclipses the 72 miles of the 2011 Leaf. A fancy liquid cooling system (still lacking in the Leaf AFAIK) gives me 85% or more of my normal range in freezing temperatures. The 2024 model has the CCS connector, derived from the Leaf's J1772 connector. DC fast charging is through the CCS, not the Leaf's ChaDeMo that never caught on. The recently standardized NACS port will appear on 2025 models, so I've settled on installing a J1772 L2 charger at home, with plans to use a J1772 to NACS adapter in the future.

The driver assist features on the Ioniq 5 SEL (2024) are... conveniences. Lane keeping assist and adaptive cruise control are useful in highway driving. Used with the speed limit change warning, the adaptive cruise control should practically guarantee I don't get a speeding ticket on the highway. It's a long ways off from worry-free, hands-off driving (which it's not designed for). I'm thinking of getting a Comma 3x self-driving system, someday, if I keep the Ioniq 5 beyond the 13 month lease.

One quibble with the Ioniq 5: The battery conditioning (heating in cold temperatures) is activated in a very restricted way. You have to select an EV Charging Station in the Ioniq 5's navigation system. Using Google or Apple Map through CarPlay will NOT activate battery conditioning. About 30 minutes or 35 miles before arrival time, the battery conditioning heater will activate, if the battery is cold enough to warrant. Hyundai clearly intended for this to be a convenient way for battery conditioning to be activated when appropriate without the driver having to worry about it. Many owners would prefer more control, to be able to definitively turn on battery conditioning when desired. I haven't made my own judgement on that yet. If the existing method consistently works, I'm inclined to be satisfied with it. I'm still perplexed that Nissan very deliberately gave up leadership in EVs to the likes of Tesla and now, Hyundai. Talk about snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory!

One concern: there has been repeated recalls of the Integrated Charging Control Unit (ICCU). Yes, that critical piece of equipment. It's the classic case where the vast majority of owners seem to be unaffected, but there's enough people that are affected that it is an ongoing issue. If you want a reason to stick with the Leaf a little longer, instead of upgrading to a Hyundai EV, this would be the most compelling reason I can think of. Other than the inconvenience of coming in for the recall service (just a software update) less than two weeks after start of my lease, I seem to have escape any serious issues (knocking on wood).

Beyond the Hyundai Ioniq 5, my dream car (which I have reserved) is the Aptera. If I keep the Ioniq 5 beyond the 13 month lease, and my Aptera gets delivered, the Aptera will likely replace my 2014 Toyota Prius Plugin, which has served (and continues to serve) me well.

I'll always have fond memories of being an early U.S. Leaf owner, alongside the range anxiety trauma of 72 miles nominal range, with first "range bar" disappearing at about 24,000 miles on the odometer. A quick Google search is showing me certified Leafs under $15k, and used 2012 models under $5,000. What a deal, if you're not intent on getting AWD and liquid battery cooling, as I was.

Anyway, I just thought I would share which EV ultimately replaced the 2011 Nissan Leaf I gave up ten years ago.

And I thought my 2013 Leaf was ugly!

 

[Bombastinator2]

Yeah. 2024 anything is gonna beat 2011 anything. It’s 13 years newer. This is almost and underscore of the whole “electric beats gas in town if you can get your own home charger” thing by making the point that “there is a point that too old is too old”.

 

[hidingonweb]

Precisely. I have also noticed that there is far too much Nissan Leaf bashing on a site dedicated to the Leaf. Also too much time spent on making advese comments about older cars. The Leaf is a wonderful innovation which still performs well and is easy on the wallet. I have had 3 Leafs and then a Lexus UX (leased not purchased) and recently purchased a new e+ Leaf outright. I know all their good points and have never had negative experiences with any of my Leafs. Some competitors have longer range or are larger, but I came back to the Leaf as the best overall family car in terms of cost and practicality.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Well I dont know about too much. If you dont bash here though where are you going to bash? There ARE issues. Every car has them of course and ive had cars that were worse en total. I had 2003 mini with the CVT for example. That was a nightmare. Tranny ruined itself AND the engine at 30,000. The thing was so bad mini cant even SELL a CVT in the US anymore. THATs a lemon. The 2019 mini is not a lemon. Its just not perfect. Not that it would be but one can strive for it.

 

[hidingonweb]

Well, absolutely correct. I was of course agreeing with your previous post. A 12 year old car of any type will have problems.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Well, absolutely correct. I was of course agreeing with your previous post. A 12 year old car of any type will have problems.

Ah. I’ve bashed them in the past though, actually kind of hard. Particularly about 12v battery issues.
ATM I’ve got issues with how they did battery cooling. It apparently works too well in Minnesota in winter on the freeway. I moved from an unheated garage to a heated one and suddenly big problems occurred. Bad enough that I would park the thing outside on the street if I could. No problems when the garage was not heated though. Weird. I need to get an air dam or something to attach with the snow tires so I can use the freeway in the winter but I haven’t found anything yet. I can also charge the car up to 100% to get around the problem. It’s not insurmountable. It’s seriously annoying though.

 

[Gpearce]

Ah. I’ve bashed them in the past though, actually kind of hard. Particularly about 12v battery issues.
ATM I’ve got issues with how they did battery cooling. It apparently works too well in Minnesota in winter on the freeway. I moved from an unheated garage to a heated one and suddenly big problems occurred. Bad enough that I would park the thing outside on the street if I could. No problems when the garage was not heated though. Weird. I need to get an air dam or something to attach with the snow tires so I can use the freeway in the winter but I haven’t found anything yet. I can also charge the car up to 100% to get around the problem. It’s not insurmountable. It’s seriously annoying though.

I want to make sure I understand this correctly.
If it’s in a warm garage and goes out on the highways in the cold it can cause problems??

 

[Bombastinator2]

I want to make sure I understand this correctly.
If it’s in a warm garage and goes out on the highways in the cold it can cause problems??

Correct. Specifically with the range predictor that has control of things like turtle mode. As the battery temp drops the thing gets messed up. If the battery is cold from the start, it correctly predicts how much range you have. When it is messed up it does things like voicing the “low battery charge” warning when you've really got over 30% battery left. You get the weird effect of the “battery percentage remaining” actually climbing while you’re on the the freeway. An air dam or something would keep the battery from being overcooled and causing this issue.

 

[mth]

and my Aptera gets delivered.

Somebody drank the aptera ponzi koolaid.

Any day now they are starting production, just have to find that last 0.001% of efficiency that will make it work--have been hearing this for the past 10 years, same website pictures for the last 5.

Now if only they can find some batteries to support the extreme efficiency claims (will have the highest of any EV).

I have installed rooftop solar for 1/4 the price of an Aptera. So I could do the same thing with 7500W on my roof and in a 4-door comfortable car with carrying capacity, speed, reliability from Kia or Hyundai or (shudder) Tesla at around half the cost of an Aptera.

Don't get me wrong, I think they look cool and will make a lot of people turn round when/if one goes by, but theres a bunch of reasons I wouldn't have one: I live in a VERY windy country - turning broadside on to a howling 50knot southerly might make for clenching where the sun never shines; same goes for a following wind; It lends itself perfectly to a scooter-style rear-wheel-drive, but instead they complicated it with front-wheel-drive, limiting the turning circle, adding weight, plus taking the fun out of it by making it FWD; a monocoque chassis with RWD and licencing Piaggio's innovative leaning front suspension would have been an absolute winner. Handling would have been massively improved as well as safety. That thing sits quite high on its rear and the batteries are to the rear of the driver - I wonder what it's like in a rollover test? Actually, I wonder what it's like in a crash test - reckon it will achieve NCAP5?

 

[mth]

I owned a 2011 Nissan Leaf until 2014, when I got my Toyota Prius Plugin. I recently got a 2024 Hyundai Ioniq 5 SEL AWD

Nice car. We're just about to get all the new model Kia's here, but the only EV Hyundai sells in NZ is the Ioniq 5 N - at $135,000

While I'd love a supercar-beating EV, for that money I could pay off my house.

More likely to get something like a Kia EV3 for $40k.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Nice car. We're just about to get all the new model Kia's here, but the only EV Hyundai sells in NZ is the Ioniq 5 N - at $135,000

While I'd love a supercar-beating EV, for that money I could pay off my house.

More likely to get something like a Kia EV3 for $

.
A leaf actually IS a supercar beating car, if you include classics. It’ll crush a ferrari Dino in 0-60. Modern cars are a Big step from the 70’s though. Imho the best bang/buck current street legal dragster is the tesla Y dual motor. The only difference between it and the sport is the parts aren’t binned. It’ll do something like 0-60 in 4.5 which will take most things before MacLarins hit the scene. No one actually needs 4.5. Theres a decent argument that no one needs 6.2, which is what a 2019 leaf does. A 2008 type IV GTI Autobahn was 6.7. There is an argument for 8. There is a very similar argument against 16sec. I used to drive a car with that time. Merging onto the freeway was downright dangerous.

 

[Drew21]

Specifically with the range predictor that has control of things like turtle mode. As the battery temp drops the thing gets messed up. If the battery is cold from the start, it correctly predicts how much range you have. When it is messed up it does things like voicing the “low battery charge” warning when you've really got over 30% battery left. You get the weird effect of the “battery percentage remaining” actually climbing while you’re on the the freeway. An air dam or something would keep the battery from being overcooled and causing this issue.

The battery pack has quite a bit of thermal mass or (if you prefer) thermal inertia. In other words, the Li-Ion battery temperature isn't going to increase or decrease quickly enough to have the effect that you're claiming, especially in the driving range of a 24 kWh Leaf which I believe is what you've said you have.

Unfortunately the symptoms you're having and have complained about in other posts describe the behavior of a battery pack that is starting to have problems. Maybe a couple weak cells, maybe a more widespread issue. Those problems are certainly exacerbated (or revealed) by the cold of your Minnesota winter, but it's not the cold itself or the design of the Leaf that is causing them.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Except it did. You can not believe me if you want to. It still happened though. I see that sort of thing a lot lately.
Someone said earlier at one point it was a controller or something. The battery still had charge. It was just reading as if it didn’t, as shown by the number actually rising WHILE I was driving. Others in this thread (which would be later) said that it was the whole battery cooling down, which you seem to not believe is possible. I think the issue is that a 60mph wind at -25f is a lot like a blast freezer. Really high speed air way below freezing.
I’m not sure how different a 5lb ground beef Chubb and a 1 ton battery pack with a poorer surface/weight ratio are.

My suspicion is that all that is needed is to lower that surface area for winter only, with something as simple as a piece of tin foil, but I’m a sort of retired landlord. I’m not a physicist or an engineer, or even a mechanic. Tinfoil may be a terrible idea.

TLDR: side note about ground beef
Thaw and refreeze in a home freezer your ground beef chubbs btw. Or cook them thoroughly. Flash freezing can preserve live Bacteria. The home freezer will still freeze but it’s a lot slower. The ice crystals are bigger and can Lyce cell walls much more efficiently. Im not a biologist either, but my Dad was. He actually preserved cell lines for mailing that way.

The time line is;
3:40pm drive across town using the freeway and park in the outdoor mall lot. (For group mall walking. Yes. Im an old) Charge: decent.

4:45pm leave the mall and drive on the freeway to a different place for dinner. About a third of the way there (and still on the freeway) I get an emergency low battery alert. 5pm(?)

Slow my driving down to below 50mph (annoying the cars around me), abort dinner (thus annoying 8 people I knew), and drive straight home. By the time I had gotten home the battery read something like 32% from 10% when the alert sounded.

NOTE: Watching the battery percentage go UP while you are on the freeway is weird and disconcerting.

My original thought was that some part of the drivetrain froze. Some controller FOR the battery. People here said that no, it was the battery cells themselves. I don’t really care what went wrong. I just don’t like missing dinner. So I’d like to fix it so I can drive on the freeway in the winter. Because right now I can’t.

If I’ve got weak cells leafspy is lying to me, because the top of my bar graph remains flat with no dips.