GOSH DARN EV Penalty Tax Car Registration Tags Went Up To $200 !!!!

[fjord]

"The Climate Discussion Nexus" is just Big Canadian Carbon (tar oil sands, anyone?) spewing the usual BS. "More open debate" is a big ol' red flag - the injection of crankery and nonsense is coming.

 

[Bombastinator2]

"The Climate Discussion Nexus" is just Big Canadian Carbon (tar oil sands, anyone?) spewing the usual BS. "More open debate" is a big ol' red flag - the injection of crankery and nonsense is coming.

Absurd misleading names are commonplace in political stuff. When I was a kid there was a group called “the moral majority”. I used to have a button that read “the moral majority is neither”

 

[fester]

Absurd misleading names are commonplace in political stuff. When I was a kid there was a group called “the moral majority”. I used to have a button that read “the moral majority is neither”

Ah yes, Jerry Falwell and his "Morbid Minority", and Limbaugh. Both paving the way for a Fascist Theocracy. Haven't voted for a Republican since, and sincerely hope that tomorrow will show that the Dumbing Down Of America hasn't completely succeeded.

 

[WetEV]

Besides the patronizing,

Good. Then you can solve a high school level physics problem. Solutions tested back in the 1950's.

Suppose we launch a satellite into orbit.

The stuff in the satellite needs to be in the working temperature range. Batteries, electronics and such what all will fail if too hot or too cold.



How can I design a satellite so that the temperature of the satellite stays in range?

Here is a thought experiment to help you understand. Make an ALL ELECTRIC AIRCRAFT that can fly at an altitude of 39,000 ft at 560 mph, with +300 passengers or 220,000 lbs, of cargo and 9,000 mile range. How about an mega oceanic 1300ft long by 200' wide super cargo container ship with batteries and electric motors? Lets ban cargo ships and mandatory sailing ships only. Ha ha.

Don't confuse the problem with solutions to the problem.


Long term fossil fuel will be depleted. If we want to continue to fly, we will need to understand how to make an airplane that flies without fossil fuel, or we will not fly anymore. Climate is a factor in how much we can burn, but even without climate impact of CO2, we will need to solve this problem.


Are there solutions? Lithium air batteries have about the same energy density as fossil fuels, so might be a possibility. More sure would be e-fuels. Use solar cells to produce electric power to produce hydrogen. Use hydrogen, water and CO2 extracted from the air to produce hydrocarbons interchangeable with JP1.

The problem is that this process is about 20% efficient. Projected fuel cost is around $45 per gallon. So isn't likely to compete with EVs on the road. Also burning produces other pollutants. But might make sense for airplanes... Ticket prices would be rather higher, perhaps 6 to 8 times more than today.

Kiss the earth because that is where oil comes from.

Oil comes from the past. Hundreds of millions of years to produce what we extract and burn in decades.

This is not to say man has no effect on climite or we should do nothing. But doing pointless things that bankrupt us on a theory is folly.

Folly is failing to do the easy things. Electric vehicles, for example, have a negative cost to implement. We end up richer after the transition. It would be folly not to implement electric vehicles for most transportation. Oh, and get cleaner air as a health bonus.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

gmcjet probably does not realize that ALL of his talking points comes from pro-fossil fuel think tanks and their paid scientists. Completed documented for over a decade ago. And that every one of those talking points has been debunked to death ad infinitum. And that the main point of these talking points is to inject doubt into what should be a straightforward conversation about polluting our shared atmosphere. And that future generations will look back in horror at what we have done, so selfishly and with so little care.

So there you go bashing. No these are all my own words from 2 decades of followingclimate. I can say all your talking points are from fanatical low information emotional climate fanatics. So there Ha ha. You have no facts, you just deny.

My points are FACTS. Refute them not attsck me. Anything that does not support we are DOOMED, it is all man-made, no natural causes, is met with the NO dacts but you are a denier. You lost the debate. I am not sure but 100% man made is rediculious. Man can manipulate global climate, the universe, solar system, planetary orbits and the sun is silly. These are biggest drivers of Climate AND THEY CHANGE over long measures of time you are not able to comprehend apparently.

If we could do every thing the Paris climate agreement suggested by their own guess and had 100% compliance it would lower Temps a fraction of a degree. Whi saud what the perfect idesl temps are ir CO2? It would cripple America and bankrupt us. BTW the orange guy got us out of it, doubled down on natural gas and beat the quotas set for USA by the Paris agreement.

People are jealous and hate America and want to take us down from a super power to weak globililist puppet (they say so). . It is a thing, supporters of one world open boarder Gov. Their efforts are 'starting to work with our own Gov and citizen's who also hate America and subscribe to socialism and communism. They are now in places of power, in Gov elected and not elected.

The SUN is life. It is that bright hot thing in the sky that heats earth and why we are not an ice giant far out in the solar system. We are goldilock not too hot mot too cold. Miracle. Liquid H2O, atmosphere, magnetosphere. How did it "just happen". Don't really know and either do you. Saw NOVA speculating on how our solar ststem formed. . OK. It is something we can't know for sure. We don't control it. This takes humility. Many are narcissist and lack this ability.

We don't control volcanos, methane bubbling out the ocean floor. Living things, you and me give off CO2. The only thing that dies not are plants, grass, trees. They take CO2 out of atmosphere. I can get behind planting more trees. I can get behind recycling abd conservation and not polluting. We can do that and do, but level up x10. That is good for planet. How about a Bike or walk no car? Not as fun as Tesla Plaid with autopilot.

So plant billions more trees or make EV's with limited rare earth materials? Which is better for planet? If you are serious you would sell everything and ilve in an organic box in the woods and walk everywhere.

Oil companies don't need to spread propaganda. WE NEED OIL TO SURVIVE. Comparisons to Tabacco is invalid. Don't need cigarettes to survive. After the World Wide "panorama" 5 yrs ago and all the authoritarian over reach, mis-info from Gov, media and the "I am the science" you still are naive. YOU WANT to "belive" like a religion in politicians and media? People want there to be a crisis for some psychological reasons.

I'm agnostic. I think it's somewhat a concern but far from the top worry on Earth. How about nuclear war? Also not a lot you can do about mother nature, forest fires, floods, hurricanes, tornados, cold, hot. Been happening since and before last 6000 yrs of revorded human history, for by millions of years. No man. Why? Why has barursl cycles just stopped and now 100% man? Think .

Let's see its been 26 yrs since the "Hockey Stick Graph", IPCC and sales-man Michael Mann started the Climate Change panic to congress. The data long since refuted and he was caught lying. Predictions over the years by IPCC and others wildly exaggerated.

Then Al Gore "Inconvenient Truth". Look when science is politicized it's curropt. Gore has proven to be wrong and hypocritical (massive house, massive boat, jets). .John Kerry at Davos Switzerland where globalist meet yearly in private meetings sat dome crazy stuff. A leak of **video** oh Kerry giving speach, to paraphrase "Who are we, we are like aliens who were chosen to save the planet... yada yada.yada". It was weird and narcissist. It is a mental illness. Kerry thinks he is, like Gore, Fauci and other politicians super human. Yet thet are ignorant, hypocritical, and pushing self serving agendas, usually power. SHOCKING! Say no to these people.

It is well known people who are afraid and promised to be saved will give up freedom and give unlimited power to their champion. That is their end game. Power.They may belive it (or not) and feel virtuous, but It's a mental illness. They get off on power, manipulating others and feeling superior to the common people or deploriables. Really it is mental illness.

"Global Climate Warming" now crisis since temps cool or have not raised is like the bat stew flu pandemic and 9/11. We are willing to give Gov super unilateral power. THEY LOVE IT. This is not new. Now with media acting like state propaganda they get away with it. There is no debate allowed. NO FREE SPEECH IS THEIR DREAM. Oh they admit they lie for our own good? Really tgey lie to protect us from ourself? Yet turns out they were WRONG. Hubirus with ignorance is a bad recipe. Add suppression of speech you have tragic results history has shown over and over.

I am done. People are invested in this "existential crisis", "past point of no return", "we have 12 years". How do they know? NO REPUTABLE SCIENTISTS SAYS THAT. In your face Greta "how dare you" Thunberg. Ha ha

YOU WILL DRIVE AN EV AND LIKE IT. No ICE car for you! Yep the smart people in Gov say do it without a vote or debate. Trust them. What could wrong. How about free market? How about not giving $7500 to rich people to buy a Tesla Plaid or Cyber Truck. How about not giving EV credits (free money) and penalties to build cars a majority of people don't to car makers. Tesla has more EV credits than they can use. TESLA SELLS THEIR EXTRA CARBON CREDIT TO OTHER MANUFACTURES FOR MILLIONS. Oh yeah that will save planet that does not need saving, at least by EV's. Just us being good care takers, not wasting, conservation, not poisoning Earth. Sure some EV, solar, wind IF IT MAKES SENSE. It can be an adjunct. We need base load energy 24/7/365, cheap and reliable. Green can't cut it.

The Gov subsidizes EV's, solar, wind out of tax payers money. What is the deficit now? Free speech, don't go along with the crowd for fear of retribution or being called "DENIER!".

Yep I am realistic, deny junk science, half truths, outright lies, illogical bad policies based on curropt junk science BOTH SIDES. . People have no real spiritual religion anymore so a new "belief system" enters to fill the void. We are seeing the affect in society. I know people have cognitive dissonance by what I am saying. You live in a bubble, constantly brain washed with subtle and not do subtle messages so long you can't independently think, question anymore. You are afraid to speak out for fear of being labeled a denier, kicked out of your group-think social groups (like a church) for questioning your climate doom faith. So believe media is 100% true unbiased and Gov and politicians are honest all knowing and wise. Now sit down in the pue of Climate church, be silent and do as they say... Oh here are some more new taxes and increased existing taxes to subsidize EV's

Last I am not saying Climate change is not happening. It is and has happened for millions of years. As far as it all man-made climate change no truth or validity. Some sure. How much? GIVE ME A NUMBER WITH MATH PHYSICS AND DATA. In the gaps of unknowns, activist and politicians have inserted their narrative and manipulated data and obfuscation of the big picture. May

TOO LATE or 12 YEARS EARTH IS DONE... OK. Guess I will just have to live like LIFE is precious and to the fullest in the mean time. I have more important things and the Country and world have other issues far more important.

 

[Dooglas]

Every single Climite Fanstic on TV is on the take. It goes both ways, but follow the money. The money goes to ppl who have religious ferver and say "extestental threat", "tipping point", "all scientist agree", and the famous "I am the a science". All untrue.

I don't understand what this actually says or the point that is being supported.

 

[Drew21]

As far as it all man-made climate change no truth or validity. Some sure. How much? GIVE ME A NUMBER WITH MATH PHYSICS AND DATA. In the gaps of unknowns, activist and politicians have inserted their narrative and manipulated data and obfuscation of the big picture.

No reputable climate scientist ever says that all climate change is man-made, or that the climate didn't change before humans were around or before the Industrial Revolution. They talk about rates of change, the ability of plants and animals (including humans) to adjust to that change, and about the fact that we're rapidly approaching climate conditions not experienced by **** sapiens on Earth.

You're technically correct that the climate was very different one or two billion years ago, but that's not really relevant for plants, animals, and humans living on the Earth today.

Do you like sports? If I could build a model that allowed me to predict the participating teams and the winning team in the next 25 Super Bowls would that suggest that my model was pretty good?

What if my model sometimes got the final score wrong? By your logic that must mean that my model is worthless.

You take the fact that climate scientists twenty years ago weren't able to perfectly predict mean August 2024 temperatures, or the exact level of sea level rise over decadal periods, or the precise amount of glacial ice lost from Greenland and equate that with the models not correctly predicting (problematic) trends.

Again, not the same thing.

 

[MikeinPA]

The SUN is life. It is that bright hot thing in the sky that heats earth and why we are not an ice giant far out in the solar system. We are goldilock not too hot mot too cold. Miracle. Liquid H2O, atmosphere, magnetosphere. How did it "just happen". Don't really know and either do you. Saw NOVA speculating on how our solar ststem formed. . OK. It is something we can't know for sure. We don't control it. This takes humility. Many are narcissist and lack this ability.

Totally awesome. Thank you!

 

[fjord]

He's a 'bot with a bad implementation - much too much logorrhea.

Putting *any* effort in refuting him is a *waste* of time. I've been down that path - careful and referenced and detailed step-by-step demolitions of every single denier talking-point. Hours and hours of research and countless posts. And you know what? They're right back at square one the next month, or day, or hour, or post. I **** you not. *TRUST* *ME*.

Put the energy and time into something positive. Tidy up your Leaf.

 

[Chad E. Mo]

^^this^^

TL;DR... "Never argue with idiots... they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

 

[MikeinPA]

He's a 'bot with a bad implementation - much too much logorrhea.

Putting *any* effort in refuting him is a *waste* of time. I've been down that path - careful and referenced and detailed step-by-step demolitions of every single denier talking-point. Hours and hours of research and countless posts. And you know what? They're right back at square one the next month, or day, or hour, or post. I **** you not. *TRUST* *ME*.

Put the energy and time into something positive. Tidy up your Leaf.

Mostly true. But keep in mind that all public forums (like this) are being digested by a large and growing field of AIs. Providing rational perspectives in response to irrational ones give the AIs something a little healthier to chew on.

 

[fjord]

IMNSHO, any time spent engaging with that level of disconnect from reality is a waste of time. His opinions aren’t going to change one bit.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

You are a better person than me clearly. So you think sending Gov more money.( they waste through bloat and curroption ) for an EV penalty tax is supporting EV's? Wow!

OK support my EV and send me $315 for my tags. You will be saving the planet and prove you are virtuous and true believer and support EV's.

PS at what point would you complain? $300? $400? $500?. With your great attitude Gov will be happy to take your money. Just send them extra.

Renewed tabs "this" week. $400 and still not complaining. Maybe you should raise the bar?

But in the end, we are the only ones responsible for our happiness. Maybe its time you started looking at a Prius?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

CDN is a channel on YouTube.

You emotionally exaggerated "exponentatal increase" in CO2. 337 ppm to 417 ppm and temps up last 120 yrs 1 degree Celsius. Yawn. CO2 has been higher pre industrial re

Of that man made CO2 is 0.000000008% of atmosphere. Yawn. Biggest green house gas water vapor. Where is this CO2 coming from? Some is man-made, clearly, but factually look it up natural sources make up over 98%. Yes some natural sources can and do increase. Man is not accountable for all the increase. Problem is measuring it.

"Natural sources of (CO2) include: volcanic eruptions, animal and plant respiration (breathing), decomposition of organic matter (dead plants and animals), forest fires, and the release of CO2 from the oceans (ocean outgassing), where it is naturally absorbed and stored; essentially, any natural process that breaks down carbon-based materials releases CO2 into the atmosphere." Methane is bubbling

Scientists debate the effect of CO2, and sources. We only hear one side cherry picked for worst case predictions. Does CO2 cause temperature increse or is CO2 a byproduct of rising temperatures for other reasons. Past periods had highest CO2 yet temperature were coldest. Hummm may be CO2 (a tiny fraction of Atmo) is not everything?

There are other factors. We know that climate has always changed often drastically without man. CO2 numbers are often taken over short periods, to dramatize the increase over a short period. Climate is measured in 100,000's of years not decades. Propaganda. Like all Temp charts start in the 1970"s, coldest decade in 300 years. Sneaky. How can you trust these people when caught lying and deceiving over and over.

I have a masters in engineering and did analysis and certification of structures on B767, B747-400 and B777. I worked on SDI (star wars), JSF (joint strike fighter now F35). I changed careers.As a pilot Weather and climate is a passion. Sadly there is a lot of lying and fear mongering. We don't know what we don't know. As a pilot I have studied weather low, high and it's fascinating. We can't predict weather more than a few days out, and get it wrong. So know climate 10, 20, 30 yrs from now.

Lower CO2? OK but CO2 makes planet greener. Trees, plants eat CO2 and make O2.

Not against man made climite change theory but know enough it is over hyped to the point childern are having emotional trauma PTSD., anxieties. With predictions that are apocalyptic and always wrong. That is nuts. Climate change has become a cult, a religion. People don't want to hear good news. Media will not report lower tempatures. CDN is good YT channel. Climate change fear T

. Please find some sources that gives rebutted claims you hear.

Wow, they really sucked you in. Great (completely unrelated) facts you have there. It doesn't really matter how much CO2 has increased. What matters is how much over the balance point we are. Plants eat CO2 so that turns the planet green? Not with us around...

Let me guess...You attribute FL/NC woes to weather, right? Its "just" weather. Happened before, will happen again and the World is too big to be affected by little ol us?

There is a branch of science that does consider the rise in CO2 to be exponential but only because they are using random facts like sustainability, emission trends and carbon balance. They are proposing this wildly insane idea that the real value of the Carbon isn't the key, it is the value's distance from equilibrium that matters. IOW they don't feel that a 20 point rise from 320 to 340 isn't significant but a rise from 400 to 420 is?

They also use crazy math to say that ONE point above 420 will cost the World 2 Billion dollars and that doubles for each additional point so 4B for 422, 8B for 423, etc.
So whether you believe this crazy science or not, there is one thing that is easy (for me anyway) to get behind and that the air we breathe. Don't care about some random measurement that can only be done on a 10,000 ft mountain. I don't breathe that air. I breathe ground air...my children breathe ground air, my closest loved ones and friends breathe ground air.

So when I am out driving around, I see monstrous reasons why I drive and support EVs EVERY SINGLE DAY. I have videos...TONS of them of cars putting out smoke screens while driving down the road so when my state says

Lets tax carbon producers but its gonna cost you $4.50 annually on your tabs to do this... I'M IN

Lets support EVs but still support the roads but its gonna cost you $150 annually on your tabs to do this....I'M IN

Lets encourage more people to drive EVs by providing them tax incentives and building public charging stations but its gonna cost you $75 annually on your tabs to do this....I'M IN

Lets help the least fortunate in our state to get an EV so they can stop driving that 20 year old unmaintained gasser that chokes you but its gonna cost $40 (in other counties', its more) annually on your tab fees to do this... I'M IN

As far as that exponential CO2 rise?? The ideal level would be what? Good question! and not a clear answer. Before we started smoking up the place, the level hovered around 280 for quite a while. With the degreening of the planet which reduces the CO2 planetary need, the informed consensus seems to be somewhere in the low to mid 300's.

 

[fjord]

Wow, they really sucked you in. Great (completely unrelated) facts you have there. It doesn't really matter how much CO2 has increased. What matters is how much over the balance point we are. Plants eat CO2 so that turns the planet green? Not with us around...

Let me guess...You attribute FL/NC woes to weather, right? Its "just" weather. Happened before, will happen again and the World is too big to be affected by little ol us?

There is a branch of science that does consider the rise in CO2 to be exponential but only because they are using random facts like sustainability, emission trends and carbon balance. They are proposing this wildly insane idea that the real value of the Carbon isn't the key, it is the value's distance from equilibrium that matters. IOW they don't feel that a 20 point rise from 320 to 340 isn't significant but a rise from 400 to 420 is?

They also use crazy math to say that ONE point above 420 will cost the World 2 Billion dollars and that doubles for each additional point so 4B for 422, 8B for 423, etc.
So whether you believe this crazy science or not, there is one thing that is easy (for me anyway) to get behind and that the air we breathe. Don't care about some random measurement that can only be done on a 10,000 ft mountain. I don't breathe that air. I breathe ground air...my children breathe ground air, my closest loved ones and friends breathe ground air.

So when I am out driving around, I see monstrous reasons why I drive and support EVs EVERY SINGLE DAY. I have videos...TONS of them of cars putting out smoke screens while driving down the road so when my state says

Lets tax carbon producers but its gonna cost you $4.50 annually on your tabs to do this... I'M IN

Lets support EVs but still support the roads but its gonna cost you $150 annually on your tabs to do this....I'M IN

Lets encourage more people to drive EVs by providing them tax incentives and building public charging stations but its gonna cost you $75 annually on your tabs to do this....I'M IN

Lets help the least fortunate in our state to get an EV so they can stop driving that 20 year old unmaintained gasser that chokes you but its gonna cost $40 (in other counties', its more) annually on your tab fees to do this... I'M IN

As far as that exponential CO2 rise?? The ideal level would be what? Good question! and not a clear answer. Before we started smoking up the place, the level hovered around 280 for quite a while. With the degreening of the planet which reduces the CO2 planetary need, the informed consensus seems to be somewhere in the low to mid 300's.

Don't expend any time or energy on this troll. He will provide an endless black hole of wasted time. His brain is a rock and impervious to facts.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Renewed tabs "this" week. $400 and still not complaining. Maybe you should raise the bar?

But in the end, we are the only ones responsible for our happiness. Maybe its time you started looking at a Prius?

I let mine go for 2 years though by accident and I’m looking at well over a grand. The “convenience fee” is $25. Some company is making MAD money from that one. That transaction is going to cost them well under a dollar but they get $25. Not sure how many thousand percent profit margin that is but it’s a lot.

Am I angry at the state? Not really. Only for allowing the executives and stockholder of the credit card processor to breathe free air. That company I’m volcanically angry with.

 

[fjord]

I let mine go for 2 years though by accident and I’m looking at well over a grand. The “convenience fee” is $25. Some company is making MAD money from that one. That transaction is going to cost them well under a dollar but they get $25. Not sure how many thousand percent profit margin that is but it’s a lot.

Am I angry at the state? Not really. Only for allowing the executives and stockholder of the credit card processor to breathe free air. That company I’m volcanically angry with.

The dogma that government ought to be run like a business has led to government being outsourced - all these middlemen companies have to get their cut. Somehow this is more efficient and saves taxpayer moneys. Somehow.

 

[fester]

Well just had to update since early wed. morning...The Dumbing Down of America has been completely successful. By spring do you think we can put faux coal bins on our Leafs to kinda' blend in...

 

[Bombastinator2]

The dogma that government ought to be run like a business has led to government being outsourced - all these middlemen companies have to get their cut. Somehow this is more efficient and saves taxpayer moneys. Somehow.

Yeah, it doesn’t reduce corruption at all though. It can actually vastly increase it.

As industries get more and more mature the needle actually swings towards public systems. Water and electrical service haven’t changed in many many years for example. They work well as government systems. We don’t do that. We use heavily regulate utilities. A half measure. One state has full private and electricity there costs 5 times what it does in neighboring states. There are others. Garbage collection in my area was one. I live in the twin cities. Two governments one city. One had public sanitation, the other had private. Public was crushing private. The city that had private moved to a half-measure and it did work better. Mail service is similar. There was a hiccup in the early 80’s with package delivery. Aircraft changed the game and FedEx took advantage. There was a point they were doing better than USPS was. It was 30 years ago though. These days they only survive with government help. A bit like AmTrack. Amtrak is directly supported though. USPS generally gets hamstrung and locked out of all but the most low-profit stuff like last mile. This is one reason the right wants to kill USPS so bad. They’re showing them up. Private is a whole lot better at innovating, but if there is no innovation for a long time, public stuff does it better. That’s why there was this frenzy in red states some years ago to legislate internet delivery and keep public companies out. The writing was on the wall there. The “government from the get-go” cell phone thing won in cell phones too. Americas 3 company model has left the US on a par with and even behind some third world nations. Not all of them, but a few. Europe and most of Asia have far far better systems.

 

[fjord]

Well just had to update since early wed. morning...The Dumbing Down of America has been completely successful. By spring do you think we can put faux coal bins on our Leafs to kinda' blend in...

Is Tesla evil because it's EV or is it good because of Elon? The vexation of the conservative mind.