GOSH DARN EV Penalty Tax Car Registration Tags Went Up To $200 !!!!

[WetEV]

I suspect a large part of Cybertruck marketing is appealing to the conservative mind.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Is Tesla evil because it's EV or is it good because of Elon? The vexation of the conservative mind.

I learned very late, like a few days before the election why the evangelicals supported trump. Morality had nothing to do with it. It was the platform. Long ago I used to say that if satan himself appeared before the evangelical caucus in a puff of brimstone and said he was anti-abortion the evangelicals would vote for him. I was immediately shushed because evangelicals wouldn’t do that. Seems it’s literally and exactly what they did though. It was not a Christian move. It was a satanist move. IMHO Evangelicals have proved evangelism is not actually a Christian movement. It’s a satanist movement. There are evangelicals who think they are Christian. Many of them are wrong.

 

[fjord]

That evangelicals went all-on for Trump damages their credibility very badly. There's reasons why religious "nones" are growing in number very rapidly.

 

[fester]

That evangelicals went all-on for Trump damages their credibility very badly. There's reasons why religious "nones" are growing in number very rapidly.

In Trumps first term the religious right had added a new Myth to the old...Trump would win in 2020 too, and after that "The Rapture". I'm not sure what version of "The Great Disappointment" is now in play, but they never seem to learn...

 

[EVEric22]

NJ's new yearly EV tax is $250 per year but increases but $10 per year every year for the next 4 years. EV sales in NJ are cratering due to the double whammy of the state requiring all EV purchasers to prepay 3 years of taxes in advance the day they purchase a vehicle coupled with the removal of the EV sales tax exemption. In simple it means the out the door price of buying a basic EV (about $40k) in NJ just went up by about $3500. NJ's also has a tax on electricity so you get to pay for that to. For reference (including all tax, delivery, and unit prices) we pay about 22 cents per KWH in NJ.


The annoyance for me is that the EV tax is not adjusted for vehicle size or miles driven. I drive my leaf about 10-12,000 miles per year. My mom is retired and drives her bolt maybe 3,000 miles a year. We will pay the same road tax as a Hummer EV driving 30,000 miles a year. The fact that the we have to subsidize larger more heavily driven vehicles is unconscionable.

It should be noted that the damage done to the road surface by a vehicle driving on it does not increase in a linear fashion, It increases exponentially. Doubling the weight increases the damage done to the road surface by a factor of 16. A vehicle that weighs twice as much should pay 16 times as much although to be fair it would be somewhat less based upon tire width/size spreading the weight out a bit. It should be no surprise that tractor trailers are responsible for a majority of the road damage but how much needs some special calculations due to the weight displacement over 18 wheels vs 4 wheels and the much larger tire size and width.

All that said the only way for gas, diesel, ev, nat gas, etc fuel vehicles to be charged fairly is if they are all charged under the same system. Miles driven times a multiplier for vehicle weight. Vehicle weight can be obtained from the manufacturers listed curb weight or actual weight for modified or unlisted vehicles. Miles driven can be recorded during inspection or self-reported with bi-annual actual readings done to ensure no under-reporting. Taxes can be paid on an annual basis and/or when vehicles are sold/purchased as the mileage is noted so any outstanding balance can be paid then.

 

[Bombastinator2]

That evangelicals went all-on for Trump damages their credibility very badly. There's reasons why religious "nones" are growing in number very rapidly.

Not sure what you mean by that as I’m unfamiliar with the term.

 

[Bombastinator2]

NJ's new yearly EV tax is $250 per year but increases but $10 per year every year for the next 4 years. EV sales in NJ are cratering due to the double whammy of the state requiring all EV purchasers to prepay 3 years of taxes in advance the day they purchase a vehicle coupled with the removal of the EV sales tax exemption. In simple it means the out the door price of buying a basic EV (about $40k) in NJ just went up by about $3500. NJ's also has a tax on electricity so you get to pay for that to. For reference (including all tax, delivery, and unit prices) we pay about 22 cents per KWH in NJ.


The annoyance for me is that the EV tax is not adjusted for vehicle size or miles driven. I drive my leaf about 10-12,000 miles per year. My mom is retired and drives her bolt maybe 3,000 miles a year. We will pay the same road tax as a Hummer EV driving 30,000 miles a year. The fact that the we have to subsidize larger more heavily driven vehicles is unconscionable.

It should be noted that the damage done to the road surface by a vehicle driving on it does not increase in a linear fashion, It increases exponentially. Doubling the weight increases the damage done to the road surface by a factor of 16. A vehicle that weighs twice as much should pay 16 times as much although to be fair it would be somewhat less based upon tire width/size spreading the weight out a bit. It should be no surprise that tractor trailers are responsible for a majority of the road damage but how much needs some special calculations due to the weight displacement over 18 wheels vs 4 wheels and the much larger tire size and width.

All that said the only way for gas, diesel, ev, nat gas, etc fuel vehicles to be charged fairly is if they are all charged under the same system. Miles driven times a multiplier for vehicle weight. Vehicle weight can be obtained from the manufacturers listed curb weight or actual weight for modified or unlisted vehicles. Miles driven can be recorded during inspection or self-reported with bi-annual actual readings done to ensure no under-reporting. Taxes can be paid on an annual basis and/or when vehicles are sold/purchased as the mileage is noted so any outstanding balance can be paid then.

Wow. Why? Who is pushing that I wonder? When does anyone pay 3 years of taxes in advance!? There may actually be constitutional problems with that.

 

[fjord]

Not sure what you mean by that as I’m unfamiliar with the term.

Religious “nones” are people who do not associate with any religion - not just atheists and agnostics but also spiritual people unaffiliated with any religion. About 28% of Americans are “nones”.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Religious “nones” are people who do not associate with any religion - not just atheists and agnostics but also spiritual people unaffiliated with any religion. About 28% of Americans are “nones”.

You mean organized religious groups when you say “religion”?

 

[Bombastinator2]

NJ's new yearly EV tax is $250 per year but increases but $10 per year every year for the next 4 years. EV sales in NJ are cratering due to the double whammy of the state requiring all EV purchasers to prepay 3 years of taxes in advance the day they purchase a vehicle coupled with the removal of the EV sales tax exemption. In simple it means the out the door price of buying a basic EV (about $40k) in NJ just went up by about $3500. NJ's also has a tax on electricity so you get to pay for that to. For reference (including all tax, delivery, and unit prices) we pay about 22 cents per KWH in NJ.


The annoyance for me is that the EV tax is not adjusted for vehicle size or miles driven. I drive my leaf about 10-12,000 miles per year. My mom is retired and drives her bolt maybe 3,000 miles a year. We will pay the same road tax as a Hummer EV driving 30,000 miles a year. The fact that the we have to subsidize larger more heavily driven vehicles is unconscionable.

It should be noted that the damage done to the road surface by a vehicle driving on it does not increase in a linear fashion, It increases exponentially. Doubling the weight increases the damage done to the road surface by a factor of 16. A vehicle that weighs twice as much should pay 16 times as much although to be fair it would be somewhat less based upon tire width/size spreading the weight out a bit. It should be no surprise that tractor trailers are responsible for a majority of the road damage but how much needs some special calculations due to the weight displacement over 18 wheels vs 4 wheels and the much larger tire size and width.

All that said the only way for gas, diesel, ev, nat gas, etc fuel vehicles to be charged fairly is if they are all charged under the same system. Miles driven times a multiplier for vehicle weight. Vehicle weight can be obtained from the manufacturers listed curb weight or actual weight for modified or unlisted vehicles. Miles driven can be recorded during inspection or self-reported with bi-annual actual readings done to ensure no under-reporting. Taxes can be paid on an annual basis and/or when vehicles are sold/purchased as the mileage is noted so any outstanding balance can be paid then.

The tax is supposed to cover road repairs. I’m not sure how much it comes out to for gas cars. Electric semis are supposed to be coming out and they will hit it a lot harder. It’s a primary reason diesel is more expensive than gas. Attempting to make people pay semi tax prices for passenger vehicles is crazy. One would assume the tax would and should vary by vehicle size. This system simply incentivize very large vehicles and very heavy use.

 

[fjord]

You mean organized religious groups when you say “religion”?

Yes. Pew Research has a recent survey and nones are growing rapidly.

 

[fester]

You mean organized religious groups when you say “religion”?

Even unorganized ones, which reminds me of another old saying..."The only difference between a "Religion" and a "Cult", is that Cults don't have Political Power".

 

[fjord]

Even unorganized ones, which reminds me of another old saying..."The only difference between a "Religion" and a "Cult", is that Cults don't have Political Power".

A religion is an old cult.

 

[cornbinder89]

After the recent election I don't think that is true anymore.

 

[fjord]

After the recent election I don't think that is true anymore.

The US is being ruled by a cult with the trifecta. Bad times.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Even unorganized ones, which reminds me of another old saying..."The only difference between a "Religion" and a "Cult", is that Cults don't have Political Power".

I was given a different one which was vastly more complex and had to do with how it treated its members and how it dealt with scripture. More or less “badly” which isn’t a very good explanation. There is a shorter “duck” type one that goes “if there are deprogrammers it’s probably a cult”. It differentiates abusive from non-abusive groups. Being popular enough to provide a real voting bloc doesn’t strike me as one. There are both tiny groups with a dozen members and massive groups that control whole nations that qualify via the second definition.

 

[Bombastinator2]

A religion is an old cult.

Not always but often. I think it is something of an oversimplification, and can be misconstrued as “all religions are really cults” which I do not think is true. I think many started out as one and some continue to be. Such groups often start out as classic cults complete with charismatic leaders, etc.. but after that leader dies, and the control system breaks down, sometimes they “free” themselves. Some Religions can and have returned to cult status, and they spawn splinter groups which often are. Occasionally a cult can spawn a splinter group that is not a cult. This happened quite quickly with Wicca. Gardener was unquestionably a cult leader (and something of a perv) but many Wiccan groups are not. I found the parishioners there to be comprised mostly of refugees from abusive Christian cults who as a result had to rename and obfuscate Christian concepts to be able to a have any spirituality at all. Gardener is dead. I do not know the status of the main line organization there.

Some continue going like Scientology, or golden dawn which have very top down systems and continue to manufacture powerful leaders. There are cults in all the major religious branches. Scientology’s status as a cult does not stem from its not being “christian” which is no defense, but from how it is organized and how it treats its followers. The foundations of Scientology are shaking though. One example is Mormonism. It unquestionably started out as a cult, and some vestiges of such still persist, and there are splinter groups that still are. By and large though the parishioners of the main line have more or less freed themselves.
Its beliefs may be considered silly or not silly, but the main line of the religion has largely forced the organization to loosen its iron grip.

Roman Catholicism could be considered a cult up to the renaissance. Anglicanism was one for a while too, even though its creation started the ball rolling for the end of Roman Catholicism’s cult capacities. Martin Luther did more though he might be considered a cult leader too. Stories about Martin Luther while he was alive are a bit hair raising.

It does take time for a religion to form from a cult and often requires splinter groups to form. Splinter groups do not guarantee that a group will move from being a cult. It doesn’t always happen. There are Scientology splinter groups. One person attempted to define a cult as an “abusive religious group” which actually increased rather than decreased problems because what constitutes abuse is malleable. “High demand groups” had a similar problem. Cults can happen that are not high demand. Both descriptions are capable of produced large numbers of false negatives. Far fewer false positives, but they exist.

 

[EVEric22]

Wow. Why? Who is pushing that I wonder? When does anyone pay 3 years of taxes in advance!? There may actually be constitutional problems with that.

There may be, but they are going to do it anyway. If several years from now the courts knock it down then they'll come up with another way to get around the constitution.

NJ has been 50th out of 50 states in fiscal solvency for years now, we just moved up to 49th place but that was mainly due to an accounting trick not a real fix. The state is doing everything it can to squeeze as much out of taxpayers as it can to try and keep the ship afloat. People are already leaving the state because the cost it unmanageable. My home is about 1,000sqft, one bath, on a busy road, with heavy truck traffic, no sidewalks, in a flood zone. My property taxes are about $8,000 a year, which is low for NJ. My parents pay about $12,000 but they have a low income senior citizen tax freeze in effect so their taxes can't be increased by law.

Politicians here got elected by not raising taxes on citizens and got the unions vote by promising huge pension increases and health benefits. Now the bill is due, taxes are already maxed out, and the pension/health care funds are very underfunded. Last I checked the health care fund had less than 1 cent for every dollar in promised benefits. They even sold off all 50yrs of the states tobacco settlement to pay for indigent cancer patients for a quick bit of cash (which they gambled in risky stocks and promptly lost) now we pay for their care in higher taxes. This barely scratches the surface (I mean we have a rain tax, yes it is what is sounds like). You can see why they are hitting up every one they can for every cent they can.

Sorry for the long post, just venting a bit...

 

[Bombastinator2]

There may be, but they are going to do it anyway. If several years from now the courts knock it down then they'll come up with another way to get around the constitution.

NJ has been 50th out of 50 states in fiscal solvency for years now, we just moved up to 49th place but that was mainly due to an accounting trick not a real fix. The state is doing everything it can to squeeze as much out of taxpayers as it can to try and keep the ship afloat. People are already leaving the state because the cost it unmanageable. My home is about 1,000sqft, one bath, on a busy road, with heavy truck traffic, no sidewalks, in a flood zone. My property taxes are about $8,000 a year, which is low for NJ. My parents pay about $12,000 but they have a low income senior citizen tax freeze in effect so their taxes can't be increased by law.

Politicians here got elected by not raising taxes on citizens and got the unions vote by promising huge pension increases and health benefits. Now the bill is due, taxes are already maxed out, and the pension/health care funds are very underfunded. Last I checked the health care fund had less than 1 cent for every dollar in promised benefits. They even sold off all 50yrs of the states tobacco settlement to pay for indigent cancer patients for a quick bit of cash (which they gambled in risky stocks and promptly lost) now we pay for their care in higher taxes. This barely scratches the surface (I mean we have a rain tax, yes it is what is sounds like). You can see why they are hitting up every one they can for every cent they can.

Sorry for the long post, just venting a bit...

My last was longer than yours. You might offend someone but it won’t be me. Flood zone stuff creeps me out. I avoid it myself. I grew up in one. My dad had dual redundant sump pumps set up that were nearly a foot across.

 

[EVEric22]

The tax is supposed to cover road repairs. I’m not sure how much it comes out to for gas cars. Electric semis are supposed to be coming out and they will hit it a lot harder. It’s a primary reason diesel is more expensive than gas. Attempting to make people pay semi tax prices for passenger vehicles is crazy. One would assume the tax would and should vary by vehicle size. This system simply incentivize very large vehicles and very heavy use.

For my leaf driving about 12-14K miles per year my NJ road tax will be about 1.5-2 times as much as a similar sized gasoline vehicle that gets 30mpg. Basically I'm subsidizing gasoline cars. For NJ to be pushing all vehicles to be EV's while imposing taxes that make that unlikely if not impossible seems counterproductive.