GOSH DARN EV Penalty Tax Car Registration Tags Went Up To $200 !!!!

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For my leaf driving about 12-14K miles per year my NJ road tax will be about 1.5-2 times as much as a similar sized gasoline vehicle that gets 30mpg. Basically I'm subsidizing gasoline cars. For NJ to be pushing all vehicles to be EV's while imposing taxes that make that unlikely if not impossible seems counterproductive.
If you are it’s messed up and someone is trying to crater ev sales with high taxes. Proving that one would make a pretty good news story. Higher probability you math is bad because that sort of thing is bad for everyone but ultra right wing political folks, and companies that have no EVs.
 
For my leaf driving about 12-14K miles per year my NJ road tax will be about 1.5-2 times as much as a similar sized gasoline vehicle that gets 30mpg. Basically I'm subsidizing gasoline cars. For NJ to be pushing all vehicles to be EV's while imposing taxes that make that unlikely if not impossible seems counterproductive.
That is the main reason that I left NJ, my x-home state. It is pure tax hell.
 
That is the main reason that I left NJ, my x-home state. It is pure tax hell.
Blue states with decent healthcare and services are like that. Red sites tend to be wastelands dotted with the occasional mansion. Much like 3rd world countries.
When I was going to school in Massachusetts I heard it frequently called “Taxachusetts”. US taxes are the lowest in most developed countries and are flat, rather than graduated, like just about everyone else. Yet the right still whines about taxes being too high. One would think failed state banana republics would have higher taxes, nope. They’re lower.
 
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If you are it’s messed up and someone is trying to crater ev sales with high taxes. Proving that one would make a pretty good news story. Higher probability you math is bad because that sort of thing is bad for everyone but ultra right wing political folks, and companies that have no EVs.
A typical vehicle drives about 12,000 miles per year. At 30mpg that's about 400 gallons per year. NJ's tax is 42.35 cents per gallon for a total tax of $169.40 per year or .014 cents per mile. For me its a $250 EV tax over about 10k miles per year or .025 cents per mile. The kick in this is my mom who only drives about 3k per year and still has to pay the $250 or .083 cents per mile That's about 6 times more tax than a gasoline car per mile and is crazy because lots of short low speed trips is where an EV excels the most. She probably be better off with a gas car at this point. I would guess shes similar to many seniors who aren't driving to work every day, but if they own an ev they will be getting hit with a clearly unfair charge. It's part of NJ's new road programs goveror Murphy recently signed which just raised spending from $2 billion to $2.37 billion per year.
 
A typical vehicle drives about 12,000 miles per year. At 30mpg that's about 400 gallons per year. NJ's tax is 42.35 cents per gallon for a total tax of $169.40 per year or .014 cents per mile. For me its a $250 EV tax over about 10k miles per year or .025 cents per mile. The kick in this is my mom who only drives about 3k per year and still has to pay the $250 or .083 cents per mile That's about 6 times more tax than a gasoline car per mile and is crazy because lots of short low speed trips is where an EV excels the most. She probably be better off with a gas car at this point. I would guess shes similar to many seniors who aren't driving to work every day, but if they own an ev they will be getting hit with a clearly unfair charge. It's part of NJ's new road programs goveror Murphy recently signed which just raised spending from $2 billion to $2.37 billion per year.
I use 20 mpg as that’s what my old GTI got and the leaf is quicker. It probably tears up the road more than my GTI. It definely does that to my tires. Thing treats tires like a dragster.
 
A typical vehicle drives about 12,000 miles per year. At 30mpg that's about 400 gallons per year. NJ's tax is 42.35 cents per gallon for a total tax of $169.40 per year or .014 cents per mile. For me its a $250 EV tax over about 10k miles per year or .025 cents per mile. The kick in this is my mom who only drives about 3k per year and still has to pay the $250 or .083 cents per mile That's about 6 times more tax than a gasoline car per mile and is crazy because lots of short low speed trips is where an EV excels the most. She probably be better off with a gas car at this point. I would guess shes similar to many seniors who aren't driving to work every day, but if they own an ev they will be getting hit with a clearly unfair charge. It's part of NJ's new road programs goveror Murphy recently signed which just raised spending from $2 billion to $2.37 billion per year.
This is exactly why, on another thread on this exact topic, I say that Kwh taxed at the charger and paid as you go, is the fairest tax. essentially a fuel tax in electric form. Not only does it reflect actual use, it also is "pay as you go", so poor and those of limited income don't get hit with the tax all at once when they renew plates.
 
Blue states with decent healthcare and services are like that. Red sites tend to be wastelands dotted with the occasional mansion. Much like 3rd world countries.
When I was going to school in Massachusetts I heard it frequently called “Taxachusetts”. US taxes are the lowest in most developed countries and are flat, rather than graduated, like just about everyone else. Yet the right still whines about taxes being too high. One would think failed state banana republics would have higher taxes, nope. They’re lower.
Red states use transfers from blue states (via the federal government) to subsidize their anti-tax anti-gubmit policies. Kinda like Wal*Mart uses our (pathetic) safety net to increase profits.
 
This is exactly why, on another thread on this exact topic, I say that Kwh taxed at the charger and paid as you go, is the fairest tax. essentially a fuel tax in electric form. Not only does it reflect actual use, it also is "pay as you go", so poor and those of limited income don't get hit with the tax all at once when they renew plates.
Home chargers and 110v stage1 chargers kind of mess that up though. Plates is an awful method though. Tabs are better but still not good. Someone mentioned buying miles on a card or something. Would require the odometer to be electronic and untamperable though.
 
no, you just need to meter Kwh at the OBC and transmit that information over the power line like the "smart" meters already do.
Electric company would add the tax to the electric bill in the same way the gas station does when you buy gas.
Since the Kwh would be cumulative, even if you charged "off grid" the amount could be assessed the next time you charge on the grid.
 
no, you just need to meter Kwh at the OBC and transmit that information over the power line like the "smart" meters already do.
Electric company would add the tax to the electric bill in the same way the gas station does when you buy gas.
Since the Kwh would be cumulative, even if you charged "off grid" the amount could be assessed the next time you charge on the grid.
Too defeatable. you could skip it by charging off a different outlet. There would be homeowners killing themselves messing with their electrical boxes.
 
Signal would come from the OBC ON THE CAR, and it wouldn't matter where you plugged it in, or what EVSE is used.
Power company can already control appliances using this method, Mine sends me a usage chart by time of day.
No mileage reporting, just power used since last update.
 
Signal would come from the OBC ON THE CAR, and it wouldn't matter where you plugged it in, or what EVSE is used.
Power company can already control appliances using this method, Mine sends me a usage chart by time of day.
No mileage reporting, just power used since last update.
I have Xcel and they provide 15 minute resolution usage data, and 6.6 kW is obvious.
 
A neighbor to my state, WI, is going to put a per Kwh tax on QCs. As I never QC I guess I'm OK with that, even though I believe electricity already is taxed, so it would be a tax on a tax but I don't like what my state, MN, uses for an EV tax as for a vehicle the size of a Leaf would have to drive roughly 20k miles/year just to break even with a similar sized ICE vehicle to the Leaf. Someone else mentioned a 20mpg ICE but IMO that's not fair, you need to compare an EV to a similar sized/type ICE and in my case I used a Nissan Versa which to me is very similar to a Leaf, an older one for sure. Sure you could compare the Leaf to a 10mpg Hummer or 12 mpg 1 ton truck but they aren't similar size or weight. Best to compare apples to apples in which case the MN "EV tax" is unfair and VERY unfair for someone who drives <10k miles/year. Now if my state would want to double the gas tax and make it similar to the EV tax, I'd be OK with that, I just don't want to clean/efficient EV being taxed at a higher tax rate as a similar sized dirty ICE vehicle.
If people who come up with these unfair idioc "EV taxes" continue we'll more than likely not purchase an EV again and go back to a very efficient ICE vehicle. We recently specifically purchased a PHEV now as our state doesn't have the "EV" tax on a PHEV but when/if we replace it and they have a similar "PHEV tax" or even worse a "Hybrid tax" which would tax even something like a regular Prius, well we'll probably be stepping back even further in time and try to find the most efficient regular ICE vehicle and F* them!
I don't have a problem paying my fair share for road maintenance but have a big problem paying more for a clean EV, that's just not right IMO.
 
I use 20 mpg as that’s what my old GTI got and the leaf is quicker. It probably tears up the road more than my GTI. It definely does that to my tires. Thing treats tires like a dragster.
Not to mention you still have to pay for electricity to charge the battery! If the states continue with their ridiculously stupid EV penalties then slowly EV sales will evaporate and become a total failure, as everybody will just keep driving gas hogs that pollute the air and continue to contribute to all kinds of cancers killing millions each year! Pretty soon cancer patients will start suing the states for not doing enough to curb pollution because the states continue to penalize those who drive Zero Emission vehicles to support fresh clean air!
 
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I'm out, but all the comments prove my point. Climate Hysteria is real, it's a social pathogen, mass psychosis. I am being attacked. Why? Did I hurt your "feelings". I have a Master's in Engineering and weather is key in my job as an international pilot. I know "climate" well and science. When anyone speaks against climate hysteria, they are attacked, "conspiracy theory", myth, they are paid by oil companies... "conservative ahhhh, not zee". Tired of it and so is the country based on last election clearly. It really you not them. Look into the mirror and check yourself.



Time to get back to common sense, rational, fact based, truth, freedom of speech and policies that make us safer, wealthier and free of Gov over reach. Climate zealots are in a cult. Last election shows ppl are tired of the lies and intimidating tactics. Let's make climate policies on logic and not fear and authoritarian Gov force. Love EV's but not for everyone and with current technology, unsustainable resources of rare earth materials, antique overloaded electrical infrastructure it's not ready for prime time. No solar and wind alone is not the answer. It will put us into darkness and bankrupt us. Its NOT PRACTICAL. Trust me I AM THE EXPERT (ha ha it works for Gov, Media thought I try it).



"Reputable Climate Scientist". That is a non sequitur, logical fallacy, called appeal to authority. You don't say who the scientist is? What they found, data, how the got the data, and have any other scientist counter research and review, which there is plenty of I am sure. It is garbage arguments that is "Scientisem". It's a cult. Scientists who don't belong to the cult are silenced, don't get Gov grants, or tenure if they are a Professor. Are the scientist who tell you climate is a crisis because "science" who say we are dead in 12 yrs the same ones who say overly obvious non scientific rhetoric on biological facts? Most of the kunk science is propaganda from Media and politicians who are not bright. I DO NOT TRUST OR BELIEVE THEM. The people who prove to be reliable and show research with data ( without manipulation or obfiscation) I trust more.

We need to accept we are not in control fully of Climate OR KNOW ALL THE FACTS. The sun, planets and earth itself are in control. We are passengers anshould d be good stewards and not go insane. If MAN made is the problem, stop reproduction of humans and MAN MADE things. It will be fixed in 100 years. Negative population growth and live like it's 1699 until pesky man is gone. Some want that for real. They just don't say it. They are cultist and running things.



The media 24/7/365 spreads propaganda, misleading information or outright lies with great prejudicial bias, or they lie by omission, not giving you all the facts, reporting selectively, taking sentences out of context.

You MUST support 100% man-made climate change and we are in a crisis or you are wrong and will be punished. Be AFRAID and to save yourself vote for me, do it or else, drive EV's, eat bugs, stop eating beef with other authoritarian attacks on freedom. That is No!

Remember vaccines? Take them or you're fired. Turns out not that effective, did not stop spread, and health side effects. Mostly ppl over 65 or obsessed, co-morbidity died. Young almost immune especially kids. Young mern who took vaccine in their teens, 20's, 30's years of age getting myocarditis and having heart attacks in their 20's and 30's at increased rate. Whoops. A female friend had major known side effect of vaccine affecting immune system. It was was all but covered up in media with origin of bat stew flu. Lies. As a pilot I get EKG tests, every year. FAA medical branch changed the standards the Aero Med doctors can accept (lower). It effected hearts especially male hearts. Yep men and woman are different dispite what you are ordered to belive. Why is that?



Elon? He is great, genius, visionary not evil. In fact he is on a board with Vivek Ramaswamy (sp) to reduce waste in government It's the dems who persecuted Elon and now use Gov to do so. He agreed yesterday Gov should stop subsidizing EV sales with $7500 free money (tax payer money). HE is going to lose money. No political or donor class, Plutocrats who are 1/4th of one percent would do that. They operate in self interest not the interest of the people. not Elon.



This subsidizing of EV's is given to ppl to buy EV's that does little to nothing for environment Is a waste. Put the money in nuclear pwr plants. Electrical grid modernization and expansion. A trillions in debt yet we give money to ppl rich enough to buy a new Cyber Truck? Elon is going to lose business. YET HE SUPPORTS IT. I AM A FAN. TESLA, GREAT, BUY ONE IF YOU LIKE ON YOUR OWN DIME. Others EV's don't work for them. My LEAF is a luxury, a second car. I'm not virtuous or saving planet with my EV. I have it because it works for me. Plus it's cool and wanted it. LOVE MY EV BUT ITS NOT A RELIGION.



Elon pointed out when he started Tesla there was no subsidizing and gas was cheap, and yet they still did business. DREE MARKET. He left "the liberals".L who excommunicated him from the cult. Elon has principles. The illogical ideology and wishful thinking of left drove him out. Free speech? Yep he is for 1st amendment. Left? No because their "ideas" can not survive in light of day in fair open debate with facts. They need propaganda and total control of information. What facts do you all bring? Typical ad hominems and can't muster facts, which means you lost the debate. Saying SCIENCE or SCIENTIST really loud is not a fact or science. It is the polirics of "Scientisem". Seems like butter but it's artificial made up garbage.



Everything I said is true and in good faith. IF I AM WRONG BRING FACTS, DATA OBSERVABLE Phenomenon, MATH, Repeatable experiments. Anything is debatable. Calling me names is an automatic fail for you, you lose.



That is what happend Nov 5. Country mandate and repudition of zealots of all kinds running the Gov. Not doing the peoples will, calling them names and tyranny will result in a real revolution. Climate zealots can not be talked to, all facts are met with denial and name calling. All they have is, speculation, wildly extrapolated data, wistful and wishful thinking of doom, lying with a side of threats and silencing of free speach. It is a cult. Stop it. You are "a threat to democracy" as they say. De-program yourself, stop hating anyone who disagrees with you and the hive mind. Be truly a critical independent thinker who educates theirself and is not partisan. If you belive legacy media, get your "news" from "The View", late night talk shows, Sat night live, Hollywood movies, MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC only, you are in a bubble of brainwashing propaganda. Some Podcast turns out to be a more reliable unfiltered source of debate and info. I watch all the legacy media time to time to check it out. I discovered they lost thier minds. No pretending fair unbiased journalist anymore. They are advocates and lie lie lie lie and cheat. They are not to be trusted.

The media HATES people, who disagree or agree. The latter are ppl they manipulateand have no respect for them, you. Ones that get in the way are enemies. They think half the country is dumb or worse, garbage and are all *-phobes and *-ists. They don't debate but show hubaris, hypocrisy, intolerance, virtue signaling while saying they are enlightened and so very right, no self awareness. People are figuring this out. Red pill. Join the club. No one has a monopoly on good ideas, but forcing your bad ones on ppl will result in what we just witnessed.


Climate has been changing before recorded history. Climate is cyclic and happens in 10's, 100's, 1000' of thousands of years. Looking at weather trends since 1970 (totally deceptive) to now, with wildly inaccurate radical predictions of the future tacked FUELING HYSTERIA. How many times do they have to be REALLY wrong for you to realize they are lying or can't predict future climate or both?

This phenomenon of Climate Hysteria is psychological mass psychosis and humans are easily fooled. The Media is doing us no favor. The Gov is not either. Please give our future "dictator" and his band of smart articulate outsiders a chance and stop being " the resistance", "by any means" to progress and success. It's OK to be happy, wealthy, safe, and secure and most of all FREEDOM FOR ALL, even straight white Christian men. Get Gov out of our pockets and life. Make Gov smaller and more efficient. Who does not want that? OH OH MR CARTER..I KNOW. The Gov and Gov employees don't. It'sa massive grift. There is at minimum over 1/2 trillion in fraud a year, some say double, waste in Gov. How many nuclear plants can we build, new bridges with that waste. Hey idea LOWER TAXES. They should do our "The Peoples" will. 30% of Gov could be gone and have no effect. Some still "Working from home". Fraud. Billions given to non-profits organized recently in the last months of this administration. Al Sharpton and his non profit got $500,000 from a recent campaign. For what? His non-profit is under investigation by IRS (which will do nothing because of his political ans social agenda). The afore mentioned campaign had ONE BILLION in funds and came out in the red $250,000,000. Ha ha yeah I want them running the Gov? Celebrities and Rich people (Oprah) made out like bandits. Turns out people paid attention. Doha!

The People have spoken. Accept it and participate or get out of the way. Live your life and stop telling me what to do. Stop telling me what to believe and how biology works. Stop making jobs a work program and get back to meritocracy, especially in critical jobs, military, airlines, medicin. Division and chaos us coming from ones who call half of Americans "garbage" and "basket full of deplorables". Hypocritical to say the least. Stop it. "Give peace a chance".

Let's start winning again and stop tearing down America for internal and global special interest. Let free market, meritocracy come back. Rule of law and equal justiceto all. It is OUR country not the Media, Gov or Hollywood. Pay attention and stop being lemmings blindly following the crowd with dangerous consequences. Stop being self destructive and hating your country, half of the citizens while worshipping a political party, and tiny minorities at the expense of all others. Climate hysteria is based on junk science, obfiscation, propaganda. The real truth is we know little and mixed and contradicting facts are inconclusive. Enter in opinion and politics.

POLITICS has perverted science beyound all belief. Gov officials saying "I AM THE SCIENCE." Every read the Bible? (I know attacks against Christianity coming, don't care.) When Jesus was asked who are you. The reply "I AM." When a Gov official (highest paid person in Gov, not elected,, entrenched, 40 yrs, hid funding Wuhan lab, lied to congress) said "I AM THE SCIENCE l" I jnew what kind of person this is. (Note: Jesus Christ a real historical figure and Bible best selling most translated book in history 2nd to none. Bible is regarded by theologians and secular scholars aluke to embody historically accurate facts, salient philosophy and wisdom that is timeless and describes the human condition. The transcendental parts are by Faith Alone. There are parts that address your anxiety about climate which will give you perspective.)

Belong to church of Climate hysteria will make you, your kids unwell and depressed. Do NOT put faith in Gov, Media, or so called Scientist making it up on the pure authority of I'm a scientist, e g., " I'm the science" Run away. They are deceivers.

The People scaring our kids to point of depression and changing their genders, are narcissistic and believe they are God. They know more and are infallible (hypocrites). Stop believing them and their state media. Use common sense, think, use all available facts, be humble, admit what you don't know. Be loving and kind to those you disagree and talk to them not cancel. We'll all be the bettrer for it.

Weather changes and nothing observed is way out of historical presidnce. I do think like an engineer and follow Newton mechanics. For a reaction, there's an opposite and equal reaction. An object will remain in motion unless acted upon by other forces. F=ma. So humans are here. They must have some effect. My opinion is not as great may be 1% or 2% on climate may be 5%. 100%? No. Second if man did not exist would the earth cool down? So the answer is less population? Live like it was the 1699 when no one drove cars and global population was a fraction of today's level. Will temps change. Yes. Scientist think 1/2 to 1 degree. Is that better? OK stop reproducing abs live like a cave person. Actually if this happened people would burn wood, very dirty and take trees away that make O2 from CO2. It would change nothing.

BTW what is Ideal Temp? Ideal CO2 % in Atmosphere? No one knows and it has and will continue to change mankind or not. The Earth, Sun, Planets set in motion for "reasons" we don't understand fully and can't control. Mean time Do conservative, recycle (or keep driving that 2004 Civic, Accord, Lexus to 300,000 or 400,000 miles verses buying a new car every 3 or 5 years).

How about don't drive, walk, bicycle. Do not throw trash on ground or sea. Do not poison Earth with things that harm humans, animals and plants (including wind turbines that kill birds and Wales when placed in water that are expensive as the electricity they make, and life limited taking huge "cabon foir print" to make and tear down, and only produce pwr when wind blows but have to shut down in high wind or ice storms).

There Is No Free Lunch. No panacea of solutions to control Climate, but conserve, don't waste, don't poison Earth, and plant more trees. THIS WE CAN DO AND COST NOTHING AND MAKES NO ONE RICH WHICH IS WHY NONE OF THE PRIVATE JET FLYING YACHT SAILING ELITE plutacrates/globalist AND THEIR MEDIA PUSH IT. Don't be a "useful idiot", i.e., sucker. "Green energy" is big business and ppl get rich off it. No kidding. We will get poorer.
 
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Folks, don't engage. You could spend hours debunking every one of his claims about the climate system and climate science, and in the next go-round, he'll post the exact same thing. I've made the mistake of engaging with deniers. Colossal waste of effort. Just like 9/11 troofers, YECers, flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, etc., etc.
 
A neighbor to my state, WI, is going to put a per Kwh tax on QCs. As I never QC I guess I'm OK with that, even though I believe electricity already is taxed, so it would be a tax on a tax but I don't like what my state, MN, uses for an EV tax as for a vehicle the size of a Leaf would have to drive roughly 20k miles/year just to break even with a similar sized ICE vehicle to the Leaf. Someone else mentioned a 20mpg ICE but IMO that's not fair, you need to compare an EV to a similar sized/type ICE and in my case I used a Nissan Versa which to me is very similar to a Leaf, an older one for sure. Sure you could compare the Leaf to a 10mpg Hummer or 12 mpg 1 ton truck but they aren't similar size or weight. Best to compare apples to apples in which case the MN "EV tax" is unfair and VERY unfair for someone who drives <10k miles/year. Now if my state would want to double the gas tax and make it similar to the EV tax, I'd be OK with that, I just don't want to clean/efficient EV being taxed at a higher tax rate as a similar sized dirty ICE vehicle.
If people who come up with these unfair idioc "EV taxes" continue we'll more than likely not purchase an EV again and go back to a very efficient ICE vehicle. We recently specifically purchased a PHEV now as our state doesn't have the "EV" tax on a PHEV but when/if we replace it and they have a similar "PHEV tax" or even worse a "Hybrid tax" which would tax even something like a regular Prius, well we'll probably be stepping back even further in time and try to find the most efficient regular ICE vehicle and F* them!
I don't have a problem paying my fair share for road maintenance but have a big problem paying more for a clean EV, that's just not right IMO.
Funny you say that I've owned 5 Priuses over the years(Great cars) and I paid an extra $150.00 for title transfer on each one and an additional $75.00 a year in license fees for each one, but I do live in Seattle where all the techie employees who live in slum town I mean down town don't even own cars and always vote to raise taxes on every chance they get being they make really good wages unlike us engineers and Boeing workers. I called our department of license and asked about all 14 fees on my latest vehicle registration and they could only tell me what 9 of them were as they too were clueless as to what the other fees were for and they couldn't figure out who to send me too to get correct answers from! Wonderful just Wonderful!
 
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