Little intro about me & lots of question about my new 15' leaf

[leafz99]

Hey guys,

After lurking the forum for a few weeks and gather information about leafs in general, i finally decided to pull the trigger and buy a new leaf '15. !

The reason I registered today is because of three things mainly : 1) To thank you guys for providing valuable info and data, 2) BECAUSE I LOVE MY LEAF SO MUCH. ITS AWESOME. and 3) I have a few questions that are left unanswered even after a lot of google search and whatnot.

But first, a bit of backstory about me (since it's my first post!):

I'm 23 years old. I'm currently working full time in computer science (R & D) and study in the evening at a university named UQAM (Université du Quebec à Montréal). Before that i got a college degree in computer science with a minor in management.

For the past 6 years i've driven a toyota corolla 98 (it was my first car). That thing was a tank but.. stuff started to break at an alarming rate. Like literally, for the past 6-12 months, i had a least 1 part that would break each month (just on top of my head : gas tank & shifter cable had to be changed). Since i hate tinkering with gasoline cars (they're dirty as ****) and the bills kept piling up for garage work / parts, i decided that it was enough and started to shop around for a new car. I then stumbled upon EVs in general. It really interested me but the cars were downright expensive and kept telling myself "no way in hell i can afford that / want to spend that kind of money on a car".

But... I started to do the math.

Apparently my state (or province as we call it here in canada) give us 8K$ when you purchase a new EV car with a battery that's larger than 7KW. What's great though is that contrary to what i've read here from people who bought the car in the US, our incentive is a cash rebate. It is NOT a tax credit. This means that as soon as you sign for the car at a dealership, the 8K$ is automatically removed from the car's price.

After searching the forums for a bit, i quickly figured that i didn't want a S as it lacked basic features like the rear-view camera and, more importantly, the QC port / 6.6kw L2 charger. So i went with the SV instead (SL was too expensive).

I negotiated with the dealership for a bit and got what i think is a good price here in quebec. I went to 3 different dealerships and picked the one that had the best service / price ratio.

Basically, i got : Nissan leaf SV 15', cargo cover + cargo organizer, very good winter tires, the winter package (heated steering, etc) (which i think is included in all canadians models?) and a parrafin anti-rust.

The dealership also applied an instant rebate of 5K$ since i paid half of the car's price in cash and combined with the province's cash return, i got a final price of 24K$ (excluding taxes).

Keep in mind that we have no federal tax credit / cash returns and that it's in canadian dollars. Since our dollar is weak, stuff cost way more sadly... Especially electronics :'(.

After doing the math, i concluded that i use, in average, 3900$ in fuel per year. Including the maintenance cost of my previous toyota (parts + mechanics time), i average well over 5000$ a year JUST to use that car. Bloody hell. And i'm not even counting the time i spend doing oil changes myself and all the annoying stuff that comes with gasoline cars!

24K$ / 5K$ means that i repay the car in 5 years! That's insane.

Oh and i forgot to mention... My employer just installed 2 L2 station outside about a month ago and it's free for employees... That's just really cool. Thanked my boss for that . Free electricity!

Here's 2 pictures of my car that i took at a friend's house when i just got out of the dealership with it :

http://imgur.com/a/E20be#0

That's about it for the intro!

Now.. if you don't mind, i have a few questions about my leaf. I did try to search for all of them beforehand, but i either found posts about an older version of the leaf OR posts where people kept arguing and nothing came out of it. Like no real "tangible" answer.

Questions :

#1 : I connected my car through the carwings service and can now remote control with the leaf application (i'm on android and i use a third party app, not the official one). I tried to turn on climate control remotely (which worked) but to my surprise. it was draining the battery! The leaf was plugged in a L2 station at 100% so i'm bummed as to why it takes electricity from the battery instead from the grid. I read somewhere on this forum that 1) the AC on the '15 model takes a bit more of energy than heater, which is fine... and 2) that since the AC is less efficient, it has to draw current from both the grid and the battery itself to compensate... HOWEVER. i have a hard time believing this. My company's L2 station is monitored through a bacnet controller. I have access to how much current i draw from the grid itself. When my leaf is idling at 100%, the bacnet controller reports that it draw a total of 9% of it's capacity. When turning the climate control ON, i can see "live" that it jumps to a mere 12-15%. So what gives? It can't take more current that what a L2 station provides as it's ONLY using 6% more than in idle.

So TL;DR : why is the battery draining even when plugged in with the AC ON? Is this normal behavior?

#2 : I just want to make sure, but If i have the QC port, my SV also came with the 6.6kw charger, correct? Is this why my leaf charges in about 4 hours from 20%?

#3 : Storing the leaf outside for long period of times... This seems to have a lot of "in my opinion, charge it to 80% yada yada". Here's a bit of context : Quebec has, in general, harsh winters. My leaf will be parked outside as i do not have a garage. It will have access to a 120v plug. I use it daily. HOWEVER, what should i do if i have to leave the leaf barely used for a few weeks outside in cold weather? Let it plugged in so that the battery heater use the electricity from the grid? Plug it in, charge it to 100% and then unplug it until it drops to 40% due to the battery heater and plug it back in after that? Some people mentioned having dead 12v batteries after a few weeks due to the 5 day recharge cycle. Has this been fixed?

Also, with the 2013 apparently you had timers and a way to set it to charge to a max of 80%. This doesn't seem to be the case with the 2015. I can set a timer but it "disappears" after it triggers. Any cues about that?

TL;DR : What should i do if i want to store my 15' outside in -20 celcius for long periods of time and prevent the battery from draining? Also, what should i do with the 12v battery? Unplug it?

#4 : Some people recommended buying a solar 12v battery maintainer. I found this one on amazon for a good price : http://www.amazon.ca/Sunforce-50102-Solar-Battery-Maintainer/dp/B0091I1OBQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

Does it helps? Is it a myth? Do i really need it?

#5 : Aftermarkets mags (or wheels as you call it in the US / EN canada, i think?). What should i look for when purchasing aftermarket wheels for the leaf SV? I've tried a few tools online but none seems to be consistent (i.e : some say that X wheel is compatible while some say it's not). Where would you recommend me to get aftermarkets wheels?

#6 : Ok, this one might be a bit weird. I was planning to get a magnetic cellphone holder and put it on the windshield (upside down) instead of putting it on the dash. I did this with my previous toyota with no problems, however one of my friend told me it's quite bad for the windshield and apply too much force on it. I searched on the net to no avail and did not find concluding evidence that it's the case, but just to be sure :

Is it bad to "stick" a cellphone holder on the windshield? Should i put it somewhere else instead?

------

Ugh... I think that's all for the moment. I'm going to take a break after all this typing x).

Thanks a lot for providing so much valuable information & thank you in advance for answering my questions .

Have a nice day / weekend.

z99

 

[RonDawg]

Congratulations on the purchase. Yes here in the US the $7500 Federal credit is a tax credit only, and some buyers will not be able to take full advantage of it depending on their specific tax situation. But there's a way around that: leasing. I don't know how cheap leases are in Canada, but in the US Nissan is offering very good lease deals on the Leaf. Because of that, leasing + buying at the end isn't really more expensive than buying up front. And all lessees who lease through NMAC (Nissan's financing arm) get $7500 off the price regardless of tax situation.

Some states offer additional financial incentives as well; California for instance offers a $2500 cash rebate. A few localities also offer additional incentives.

Now on to your questions:

1. I don't know why your car is draining from the battery. It is known that if you plug into L1 (120 volt) there is not enough power to both charge and pre-heat, but at L2 that should not be a problem. Perhaps someone else can offer a solution.

2. To my knowledge, all 2013+ Canadian Leafs have the 6.6 kW on board charger, even the Leaf S (which requires the QC package here in The States if you want 6.6).

3. Leaving the battery at 100% for an extended time in cold weather should not be a problem. The battery heater will use up a bit of the charge even when the car is not in use. You want to avoid doing this in hot weather though. Leaving the car plugged in long after it has finished charging is what causes the 12 volt battery to go dead (ironically). Yes the 80% "Long Life" setting was removed starting with the 2014 models, though Leafs sold outside North America continue to have this feature.

4. If you will leave the car parked for an extended period, a solar battery maintainer certainly won't hurt it, though I don't know how much of a benefit it will be in your situation.

5. I will leave this for another person, though some Leafers have put aftermarket rims on. Keep in mind that if you will be going up to a different size that depending on the tires you get, you may see range decreasing due to increased rolling resistance.

6. I have not heard of any problems with sticking objects on the windshield. I have both a transponder (for toll lane usage) and a dash cam stuck to my windshield with no problems.

 

[tkdbrusco]

#1 : I connected my car through the carwings service and can now remote control with the leaf application (i'm on android and i use a third party app, not the official one). I tried to turn on climate control remotely (which worked) but to my surprise. it was draining the battery! The leaf was plugged in a L2 station at 100% so i'm bummed as to why it takes electricity from the battery instead from the grid. I read somewhere on this forum that 1) the AC on the '15 model takes a bit more of energy than heater, which is fine... and 2) that since the AC is less efficient, it has to draw current from both the grid and the battery itself to compensate... HOWEVER. i have a hard time believing this. My company's L2 station is monitored through a bacnet controller. I have access to how much current i draw from the grid itself. When my leaf is idling at 100%, the bacnet controller reports that it draw a total of 9% of it's capacity. When turning the climate control ON, i can see "live" that it jumps to a mere 12-15%. So what gives? It can't take more current that what a L2 station provides as it's ONLY using 6% more than in idle.

I think this has to do with the fact that your car finished charging and the station timed out. At my wife's work you need to scan your card to turn on the charger, if it times out and the climate control is turned on, it will pull from the battery.

#2 : I just want to make sure, but If i have the QC port, my SV also came with the 6.6kw charger, correct? Is this why my leaf charges in about 4 hours from 20%?

Yes. The standard port will charge at 6.6kw/hr on most chargers. The QC port is much faster. On average you will get about 35% per hour on L2, it is the last 5% or so that takes a lot of time. When the battery gets close to 100% it slows down the charge and slowly balances out the cells.

#3 : Storing the leaf outside for long period of times... This seems to have a lot of "in my opinion, charge it to 80% yada yada". Here's a bit of context : Quebec has, in general, harsh winters. My leaf will be parked outside as i do not have a garage. It will have access to a 120v plug. I use it daily. HOWEVER, what should i do if i have to leave the leaf barely used for a few weeks outside in cold weather? Let it plugged in so that the battery heater use the electricity from the grid? Plug it in, charge it to 100% and then unplug it until it drops to 40% due to the battery heater and plug it back in after that? Some people mentioned having dead 12v batteries after a few weeks due to the 5 day recharge cycle. Has this been fixed?

I have 16K miles on my 2015 and almost everyone will agree that the charge to 80% thing doesn't matter on the 2015 car. The only thing that you need to worry about is leaving the car at a high state of charge for long period of time. The battery also likes to be cycled through, run it down to less than 50% before charging back up when possible. We cycle ours through from 30% to 100% each day and plug in after lunch so that its at 100% just before we leave work.

Also, with the 2013 apparently you had timers and a way to set it to charge to a max of 80%. This doesn't seem to be the case with the 2015. I can set a timer but it "disappears" after it triggers. Any cues about that?

They found out that with the new lizard battery there is very little benefit.

TL;DR : What should i do if i want to store my 15' outside in -20 celcius for long periods of time and prevent the battery from draining? Also, what should i do with the 12v battery? Unplug it?

I live in CA so have little experience with this. My guess would be that the li-io battery will use its power to keep the car from freezing and frequently recharge the 12v battery. I would suggest maybe getting a battery tender as below. I would consult a forum member in a cold climate.

#4 : Some people recommended buying a solar 12v battery maintainer. I found this one on Amazon for a good price : http://www.amazon.ca/Sunforce-50102-Sol ... op?ie=UTF8

Does it helps? Is it a myth? Do i really need it?

#5 : Aftermarkets mags (or wheels as you call it in the US / EN canada, i think?). What should i look for when purchasing aftermarket wheels for the leaf SV? I've tried a few tools online but none seems to be consistent (i.e : some say that X wheel is compatible while some say it's not). Where would you recommend me to get aftermarkets wheels?

You shouldn't get aftermarket wheels if you are concerned about range. And you shouldn't swap out the tires for low pros or anything more sticky. You can lose upwards of 5-10% of your range for different tires. The same tires on different wheels may not make a difference, but there's also a component of aerodynamics and drag involved. I also pump my tires up to 40-42 psi, which does increase my range slightly. The stock tires on the leaf wear pretty fast though. Many people are saying that they only get about 30K miles out of them.

#6 : Ok, this one might be a bit weird. I was planning to get a magnetic cellphone holder and put it on the windshield (upside down) instead of putting it on the dash. I did this with my previous toyota with no problems, however one of my friend told me it's quite bad for the windshield and apply too much force on it. I searched on the net to no avail and did not find concluding evidence that it's the case, but just to be sure :

Never heard of this.

 

[bobskat]

enjoy your new car....my 2015 s does have the rear view camera and the both charging ports, might be a U.S. thing though?

 

[LeftieBiker]

I have 16K miles on my 2015 and almost everyone will agree that the charge to 80% thing doesn't matter on the 2015 car. The only thing that you need to worry about is leaving the car at a high state of charge for long period of time. The battery also likes to be cycled through, run it down to less than 50% before charging back up when possible. We cycle ours through from 30% to 100% each day and plug in after lunch so that its at 100% just before we leave work.

The purpose of the 80% charge setting was to avoid having the car sit at 100% charge for long periods. That this concern applies only in hot weather now doesn't mean that there wouldn't be an advantage to still being able to charge to 80%. And there is no truth to the statement about the battery pack 'liking to be cycled'. It does get equalized when charged to 100%, but there is no need at all to drain it to less than 50% if you don't need to use that much charge. You are confusing ideal storage state (50 to 70% for lithium ion batteries, which these are not, and 20+ to 80% for this battery type) with cycling.

 

[tkdbrusco]

I will point out that my dealer mechanic (big Leaf dealer) told me that the only big thing to avoid on the 2015 cars is consistent topping off of the battery. He said to try to not plug in for a charge unless your car drops below 70%. I think the 80% charge thing is mainly not done on the newer cars because its a pain in the butt to calculate. I tried to do it for a while just because and it wound up being too much of a hassle. Furthermore, when I was trying to do the 80% charge thing, my max GIDS were dropping slightly as well. When I went back to 100% charging, they came back up and haven't dropped below 288 in nearly 4 months.

 

[minispeed]

For your aftermarket wheels there's a ton of extra space. I've gone to both extremes and fitted 15in winters that just barely clear the brakes. The light weight helps with range in the winter. For summer I put on 215 55 17 which is much larger than the stock 205 55 16. About 5.8% larger and I've lowered my car. With room like that if you're not going to push the size of the tire you can fit pretty much any rim.

I'd assume you're thinking of these for winters? I'd make 3 suggestions if you haven't picked up the tires yet get 205 60 16 and run them on the stock wheels. My cousin used that size, its closer to the 17 stock diameter which will roll better. Stock wheel finishes are far superior and will keep looking good in a harsh winter for a few years. Mid price aftermarket aluminum rims will last a year or two before starting to look bad if they're only driven in winter but will look great for many years if only driven in the summer. 3rd only go with Michelin x ice or nokian if range is a concern, not only are they lrr but they are better lrr than many non winter lrr tires.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I think the 80% charge thing is mainly not done on the newer cars because its a pain in the butt to calculate. I tried to do it for a while just because and it wound up being too much of a hassle.

Eh? The car does the calculating.. unless you mean whether or not 80% will be enough range. In either case you're mistaken. Nissan removed the 80% charge feature almost certainly (and exclusively) because the EPA lowered the car's range estimate for the one year it was there. This was one instance in which the EPA clearly did something stupid.

Furthermore, when I was trying to do the 80% charge thing, my max GIDS were dropping slightly as well. When I went back to 100% charging, they came back up and haven't dropped below 288 in nearly 4 months.

That's just because most of the pack equalization occurs when you charge to 100%. If you charge to 80% six times a week and 100% once, the GIDs will likely stay about the same over time. The 80% charge option was just that - an option. It is very handy and I'll miss it if I lease a newer Leaf.

 

[although]

With regard to the cell phone windshield question... We've been hanging rear view mirrors on windshields for decades without any significant breakage. Nowadays we are hanging rain sensors and lane cameras on them as well.

I'm fairly certain that the weight of a cell phone isn't going to stress the windshield enough to create a problem.

I've spent the last couple of decades working in a windshield factory. Once you glue them into the car, they are pretty sturdy. Just try not to throw rocks at it.

Mike