Living in Apartment Building - Charging questions

[LeftieBiker]

Stop being churlish, please. That was uncalled for.

 

[Jctz1]

I should also add that BC has a lot of older LEAFs on the road.

This is true. I have seen nearly as many Leafs as Teslas (a ratio of maybe 3 teslas to a Leaf, and it is usually older Leafs), which is interesting because I didn't know so many people could afford 60,000CAD cars.

 

[alozzy]

If you are so keen to compare to petrol, then pay petrol rates

Thank you for strengthening my argument - that's why I recommended to the OP to sell his LEAF, if his "go to" charging option is DC fast charging. Thanks to this pricing scheme, BC Hydro has made an older EV a poor choice for anyone who can't charge at home. Fortunately, I have that luxury and so I rarely charge at DC fast chargers, but it's an older EV or an ICE for most moderate income earners.

I would definitely sell my LEAF and go back to an ICE, if I had to DC fast charge frequently. I can't afford a modern EV, neither can most people who aren't in the top 10% of income earners.

Despite their political spin of being in favor of EV adoption, BC Hydro has all but assured that, for moderate income British Columbians who live in an apartment or townhouse complex with no EV charging facilities, buying an EV is a bad decision.

 

[Jctz1]

If you are so keen to compare to petrol, then pay petrol rates

Thank you for strengthening my argument - that's why I recommended to the OP to sell his LEAF, if his "go to" charging option is DC fast charging. Thanks to this pricing scheme, BC Hydro has made an older EV a poor choice for anyone who can't charge at home. Fortunately, I have that luxury and so I rarely charge at DC fast chargers, but it's an older EV or an ICE for most moderate income earners.

I would definitely sell my LEAF and go back to an ICE, if I had to DC fast charge frequently. I can't afford a modern EV, neither can most people who aren't in the top 10% of income earners.

Despite their political spin of being in favor of EV adoption, BC Hydro has all but assured that, for moderate income British Columbians who live in an apartment or townhouse complex with no EV charging facilities, buying an EV is a bad decision.

Thankfully, by the look of it, we drive little enough that we wont need to DC fast charge all the time, rather only for long commutes. Level 2 seems to fit our needs for now, and there's still the chance we will be charging from home at a point in the near future.

 

[alozzy]

Thankfully, by the look of it, we drive little enough that we wont need to DC fast charge all the time, rather only for long commutes. Level 2 seems to fit our needs for now, and there's still the chance we will be charging from home at a point in the near future.

Sorry for the somewhat off topic stuff, Sagebrush likes to label me as a cheapskate for railing against time based charging. For any Telsa owner like him, it's a great deal, as he can charge at much higher L3 rates than we can with our older LEAFs and so therefore he pays far less per kWh than we do. He thinks that's all fair and good, I obviously disagree.

 

[SageBrush]

Despite their political spin of being in favor of EV adoption, BC Hydro has all but assured that, for moderate income British Columbians who live in an apartment or townhouse complex with no EV charging facilities, buying an EV is a bad decision.

Lucky for BC, not all the populace share your views or have your facility with arithmetic.

And beyond the savings in fuel, there are other substantial EV advantages:

Much less noise pollution
Much less air pollution
Much less global warming
Much better driving experience
Better reliability
Savings in maintenance

Heck, there are even people who prefer a better EV over a diesel motorhome. There are even people like OP who are willing to accept inconvenience in order to drive EV. So you see, your stance that you have to be patted on the back and be given money to not be a blight on society is not universal.

 

[alozzy]

Lucky for BC, not all the populace share your views or have your facility with arithmetic.

And beyond the savings in fuel, there are other substantial EV advantages:

Much less noise pollution
Much less air pollution
Much less global warming
Much better driving experience
Better reliability
Savings in maintenance

Heck, there are even people who prefer a better EV over a diesel motorhome.

Lucky for you, you're an entitled old curmudgeon who doesn't know what it means to live within a budget. Enjoy your fancy Tesla, but don't delude yourself that you're some sort of champion for the environment. I drive an old LEAF for those same aspects and I make no apologies for railing against time based charging.

Mass adoption of EVs will never happen if charging costs as much or more than gas. You're delusional if you think otherwise.

 

[SageBrush]

Sagebrush likes to label me as a cheapskate for railing against time based charging.

Not quite. I label you self-centered for not being able to see that the majority of EVs on the roads of BC are getting a very good DC charging deal, and that fraction is increasing by the day. And when you go off the deep end and label BC hydro pejoratively because little you is not being showered with government subsidy, I change your label to a self-centered little p***k. Do I remember correctly that you run around in a diesel motorhome ? If so, your label needs an upgrade.

We do agree on one thing though: choosing an old LEAF that requires DC charging requires a special commitment to EVs. Good for OP !

 

[LeftieBiker]

Last informal warning, Sagebrush. If you can't argue without attacking, then perhaps you should find a troll-infested site that's more your style.

 

[alozzy]

@SageBush

No idea where you are getting the notion that I own a diesel motorhome - I don't own any kind of motorhome - I do all my camping in a tent, if you know what one of those is. Nice try though.

I'm tired of your BS though, back on the foe list you go.

 

[GerryAZ]

The new BC Hydro rates for DCFC are much cheaper than what EVgo charges in Arizona (but still much more expensive than charging at home). I found that actual DCFC charging rates were similar for my 2011 and 2015. My experience was that battery deterioration does decrease the maximum DCFC charge rate as well as maximum regeneration when the battery is cold (for both 2011 and 2015), but charge rate (and regeneration) was close to normal when battery was warm. The 3.3 kW onboard charger in the 2011 and 2012 LEAF's is actually 3.3 kW to the battery (AC input power is about 3.8 kW) so the 6.6 kW onboard chargers in later cars are not twice as fast. I think the OP will enjoy the car as long as its limited range meets the need. Once they have charging at home, they will really enjoy it. The 2011 and 2012 models have some features that were deleted from later models.

 

[Jctz1]

The new BC Hydro rates for DCFC are much cheaper than what EVgo charges in Arizona (but still much more expensive than charging at home). I found that actual DCFC charging rates were similar for my 2011 and 2015. My experience was that battery deterioration does decrease the maximum DCFC charge rate as well as maximum regeneration when the battery is cold (for both 2011 and 2015), but charge rate (and regeneration) was close to normal when battery was warm. The 3.3 kW onboard charger in the 2011 and 2012 LEAF's is actually 3.3 kW to the battery (AC input power is about 3.8 kW) so the 6.6 kW onboard chargers in later cars are not twice as fast. I think the OP will enjoy the car as long as its limited range meets the need. Once they have charging at home, they will really enjoy it. The 2011 and 2012 models have some features that were deleted from later models.

Thanks! We really like the car so far, though I am sure everyone here tends to really like their LEAFs. I think so too! Once we have the chance to charge it at home we will really enjoy every aspect of it. Some of the tips I have found here and been told to preserve battery are super useful already, and am really thankful. Last time we charged, a couple of days ago, it seemed to charge at 1kWh every 20 minutes or so, at a level 2 station. Pricing was like $1.47 after an hour and 20 minutes of charging. My only question left is that sometimes the charger (not the car, but the app related to the public charger) counts incoming energy in Amperes. I was wondering how that translates to how much energy in kWh is coming in.

 

[SageBrush]

My only question left is that sometimes the charger (not the car, but the app related to the public charger) counts incoming energy in Amperes. I was wondering how that translates to how much energy in kWh is coming in.

watts = amperes * volts
watts * time = energy

Example:
Say the car pulls 16 Amps for 80 minutes at a public EVSE that supplies 208 v

watts = 208 * 16 = 3,328 watts = 3.328 kW
time = 80 minutes = 4/3 hours
kWh = 3.328* 4 /3 = 4.44 kWh

 

[Jctz1]

watts = amperes * volts
watts * time = energy

Example:
Say the car pulls 16 Amps for 80 minutes at a public EVSE that supplies 208 v

watts = 208 * 16 = 3,328 watts = 3.328 kW
time = 80 minutes = 4/3 hours
kWh = 3.328* 4 /3 = 4.44 kWh

That's quite helpful! Thanks SageBrush!

 

[alozzy]

Circling back to the related topic of how DC fast charging is billed (earlier in this post), Measurement Canada is going to allow per kWh billing for DC fast charging. Progress, at last!

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/measurement-canada-to-allow-per-kwh-billing-at-ev-chargers-before-the-end-of-2022/

It will be interesting for Canadians to see how local electric utilities respond, as it would seem that Measurement Canada isn't enforcing the use of per kWh billing. Hopefully they recognizes that per kWh billing is the only fair system and transition ASAP.

The most fair system would be if the DC fast chargers calculate based on both time and per kWh and then bill for whichever is cheapest.

A nice bonus would be automatic switchover to time based billing, whenever charging past 90% SOC, at triple the usual cost. That would cut back on the number of people who insist on charging to 100% all the time.

 

[oxothuk]

The most fair system would be if the DC fast chargers calculate based on both time and per kWh and then bill for whichever is cheapest.

IMHO it would be fairer to bill for whichever is more expensive. You want a disincentive for folks using DC chargers to reach 100% SOC.

 

[alozzy]

IMHO it would be fairer to bill for whichever is more expensive. You want a disincentive for folks using DC chargers to reach 100% SOC.

My old LEAF charges as slow as 12 kW during winter and so it can cost a fortune to charge on cold days using per minute billing. I prefer what I mentioned in my last paragraph above as a fair solution (billing at a higher rate when the SOC >90%)