Mobile operators to shut down 3G networks in 2022

[Goodbar]

Did a little poking around and it appears that Subaru went to 4G LTE in ~2016 with Sirius XM Connected Vehicle Services and AT&T. Pretty disappointing that Nissan switched to 3G when other automakers were installing LTE. Especially because LTE was well-established by then and 3G was on the wane.

https://media.subaru.com/pressrelease/712/123/subaru-selects-sirius-xm-connected-vehicle-services-help

My car will be disconnected before it's 5 years old. I'm not hugely reliant on telematics, though it was one of the reasons we bought an SV over the S. I get that they can't support new cell technologies indefinitely, but leaving us with no upgrade path after a few years is lousy. I'd be willing to pay a few hundred bucks for an upgrade.

 

[G3NG4R]

I had some time to kill this morning, so I did two test on mine...

This is awesome! Thank you for taking the time to do this testing, and I'm envious of the equipment you have.

 

[alozzy]

I had some time to kill this morning, so I did two test on mine...

Thanks. I just bought a new 2020 and was wondering about that. I have been unsuccessful in determining what radio I have. I still haven't found anything 100% definitive. The Connect manual suggests 4G and your experiment reinforces that notion but no-one can say with absolute certainty.

Can't say I agree, I think knightmb's test is about as definitive an answer as you'll get, besides Nissan themselves confirming it.

It's a little fuzzy, but this photo of the TCU from a 2018 Nissan Leaf shows 4G at the bottom of the label, next to "Model Name"

So, that would seem to confirm that any 2018 or newer LEAF with a telematics system is 4G compatible

 

[knightmb]

So, that would seem to confirm that any 2018 or newer LEAF with a telematics system is 4G compatible

Using the photo and the FCC-ID, I was about to look it up in the FCC database.

V6V 3A4 N7NAR7552 Original Equipment 06/15/2015 824 849
V6V 3A4 N7NAR7552 Original Equipment 06/15/2015 1710 1755
V6V 3A4 N7NAR7552 Original Equipment 06/15/2015 1850 1910
V6V 3A4 N7NAR7552 Original Equipment 06/15/2015 2500 2570

824 MHz to 849 MHz - 3G Service
1710 MHz to 1755 MHz - 4G Service
1850 MHz to 1910 MHz - 3G Service
2500 MHz to 2570 MHz - 4G Service

These units support both 3G and 4G service. I actually never checked it for the 3G frequency since I was only interested in the 4G working service, so it would appear this radio can support both, neat!

 

[Stanton]

I just can't believe Nissan was installing 3G modem upgrades (instead of 4G) for Gen1 Leafs while they were selling 4G modems in the Gen2 :evil: I'm starting to get worried that we can't get any info on (additional) modem upgrades for the Gen1.

 

[Goodbar]

Interesting stuff! It appears that a few part numbers were used from late 2017 – mid 2018 for the Gen2 cars. Unless they all have 4G capability, it may not be possible to make a blanket statement about MY18. It also looks like the 62 kWh Plus cars got a different part from the base 40 kWh car, and all of the earlier TCUs were superseded to a newer part number.

From:
https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts-list/2018-nissan-leaf/body_electrical/telephone.html?pnc=28275

 

[knightmb]

It will take a while, I can probably find the FCC ID for those also and relay back what they support via the FCC database. Unless someone has a nice picture of the FCC ID from all of those handy to post here....

 

[Goodbar]

It was pretty quick to do a Google image search for the part numbers. They all say 4G on the label, whereas the PN for my 2017 says 3G. So there might be a clean break between Gen1 and Gen2. Anyone know if there were significant infotainment changes between MY18 and 19?

I didn't look up the Plus PN because that was introduced later and didn't duplicate the photo above from @alozzy.

28275-6FL0E

28275-6FL2B

 

[knightmb]

Looks like the same FCC ID is being used, so they would all use the same frequency allocation, thus should all be 4G compatible. Going by the pictures...

 

[rpiotro]

I had some time to kill this morning, so I did two test on mine...

Thanks. I just bought a new 2020 and was wondering about that. I have been unsuccessful in determining what radio I have. I still haven't found anything 100% definitive. The Connect manual suggests 4G and your experiment reinforces that notion but no-one can say with absolute certainty.

Can't say I agree, I think knightmb's test is about as definitive an answer as you'll get, besides Nissan themselves confirming it.

It's a little fuzzy, but this photo of the TCU from a 2018 Nissan Leaf shows 4G at the bottom of the label, next to "Model Name"

So, that would seem to confirm that any 2018 or newer LEAF with a telematics system is 4G compatible

Thanks for showing that. You have met my criteria of "definitive".

 

[mcmancuso]

After doing a TON of research on this for my 2013 leaf SV, it appears that the newest part, superseding the older ones is 283B0-3NF2B, the FCC ID on this (from looking up other parts with the same lookup code - 283B0P) is N7NSL8080, this contains the Sierra wireless SL8080 modem, which supports 4G bands. The pricing is the same as the previous model, and they both show compatibility with the 2013-2015 leaf SL/SV. It looks like if you request this part number for the upgrade, you should be in good shape for 4G from everything I can see about the chip it uses.

https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts/nissan-telematics-communication-unit~283b0-3nf2b.html

This is the part with the same lookup code where I was able to see the FCC ID:

Here's the official leaf part, kinda hard to read, but it's the same FCC ID:

 

[cwerdna]

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10152513-9999.pdf NTB17-015b was the latest rev of the 2G to 3G TCU upgrade procedure for gen 1 Leafs.

Unfortunately, it looks like there's a revision C that I don't have the PDF for. But, https://www.aboutautomobile.com/Technical-Service-Bulletin/2013/Nissan/LEAF/Electrical-System was a hit that came up that has stuff like this:

TSB Number: NTB17-015C
NHTSA Number: 10185428
TSB Date: December 21, 2020
Date Added to File: January 8, 2021
Failing Component: Electrical System
Summary: Customer satisfaction initiative 2g telematics hardware replacement customer satisfaction initiative id # pc449 and pc450 are no longer active. Repair orders opened after this bulletins published date are no longer eligible fo

 

[Goodbar]

After doing a TON of research on this for my 2013 leaf SV, it appears that the newest part, superseding the older ones is 283B0-3NF2B, the FCC ID on this (from looking up other parts with the same lookup code - 283B0P) is N7NSL8080, this contains the Sierra wireless SL8080 modem, which supports 4G bands. The pricing is the same as the previous model, and they both show compatibility with the 2013-2015 leaf SL/SV. It looks like if you request this part number for the upgrade, you should be in good shape for 4G from everything I can see about the chip it uses.

https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts/nissan-telematics-communication-unit~283b0-3nf2b.html

<snip>

Thanks for the research. This still requires the dealer to configure with Consult to work, right? I'd be very interested in hearing of someone successfully doing this.

Incidentally, the linked part gives me a "Unable to verify part fitment for your vehicle" message for my 2017 SV (searched by VIN). Seems like there are a bunch of TCU variants.

AT&T appears to have removed 3G from the tower(s) nearest my house in the last week, so no more telematics from that location. I'm getting random notifications about the battery being fully charged, presumably where the car picks up a signal.

 

[draftpunk]

I just spoke with my dealer here in Longmont, CO, and was told that the service bulletin that replaces 2G with 3G has expired (service comm ID PC449). Has anyone else had the same response lately?

 

[brycenesbitt]

At least 4G likely won't go away fast. 5G is built on top of 4G.... so they both have to work.

 

[Deleted member 33915]

The page for the app seems to say with certainty that only 2018 and newer Leafs will be able to use it.

"Please see important information below on 3G cellular network discontinuation impacting MY11-17 LEAF vehicles***.

***The NissanConnect Services telematics program will be affected by AT&T’s decision to discontinue its 3G cellular network. On February 22, 2022, all Nissan vehicles equipped with telematics hardware compatible for use with the 3G cellular network will be unable to connect to the 3G network and unable to access the NissanConnect Services features. Clients having purchased a Nissan vehicle with this type of hardware must have enrolled in NissanConnect Services prior to June 1, 2021 to activate the service to receive access through February 22, 2022 (access is subject to cellular network availability and coverage limitations). For more information, please visit http://www.nissanusa.com/connect/support"

 

[Stanton]

The page for the app seems to say with certainty that only 2018 and newer Leafs will be able to use it.

"Please see important information below on 3G cellular network discontinuation impacting MY11-17 LEAF vehicles***.

Do what I did: replace the (Nissan) TCU with a (3rd party) OVMS module (https://www.openvehicles.com/). You can search the forum for more info/threads on OVMS if interested. Note: the OVMS 4G option/module is set to be released in December.

 

[Deleted member 33915]

@Stanton,

What would my time/money investment be on that?

I'd like to keep the capability, but it's also not really a deal breaker since I can work from home for the foreseeable future, so I'm not as concerned about being able to remotely activate the defrost in the winter and the car stays under a 3 sided carport under part of the building at home.

Mostly I'm worried about how much time it would take me since I've never had a car with a TCU or even any sort of built in navigation/radio system before this one. I'm juggling work, law school, condo association, and kids so I really don't want to spend over an hour in it. Is it pretty much plug and play with the wiring/TCU unit?

 

[baustin]

I was hoping for some new information here. I got the email from Nissan this morning saying basically we are SOL for service. I paid the $200 for the upgrade from 2G to 3G several years ago. It would be nice if they offered an upgrade to fix it this time around.

 

[GreatScott]

@Stanton,

I'm also interested in OVMS, but the web site doesn't seem to give any technical details at all. If you hadn't mentioned it, I would assume that it was a Tesla Roadster only product.

Any information you can share specific to using OVMS for a leaf? Is there an additional subscription fee, or do you need to provide a SIM to enable cellular data?

I have a 2017 SV and will likely be SOL, as many others have mentioned.

Scott