Nissan Leaf battery pack being blamed for possibly causing the death of 2 sailors

[DaveinOlyWA]

Not a battery fire. Look carefully at the picture.

Interesting the entire car is engulfed in flames EXCEPT the area where the battery lies. A TON of rumors swirled around this event then suddenly all the info disappeared. This is NOT a verified battery fire.

 

[dean]

Sure looks like a lithium battery fire to me. What else is in the car that could burn such high flames and out the bottom like that--a plastic dash? some foam or leather seats? some carpet?

A defective phone charger plugged into the 12v outlet could cause some heat and a small fire. Is brake fluid flammable?

 

[LeafNissan1]

Just learned that since my days of cruising on my sailboat that Semi Submerged Shipping Containers have become a huge problem, with literally thousands of them adrift in our oceans.

I would say that this is just as likely a scenario, or even more so, of what could have happened, rather than a fire caused by a Leaf battery failure.
https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2021/06/04/addressing-dangers-of-lost-containers/

 

[LeafNissan1]

View attachment 4807

 

[Kenny]

The driver of the silver Leaf has reported elsewhere on this, saying smoke started pouring out from below the center console. Opinion is it was an electrical fire of the normal kind. From the driver:

https://electrek.co/2015/09/04/a-nissan-leaf-caught-fire-in-north-texas-cause-currently-unknown/

Having to go back to 2015 to find a Leaf battery on fire reinforces the opinion that Leaf batteries are very safe.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Lithium metal fires are “road flare fires”. They basically can’t be put out (there might be special means like burying them in sand or something, but fire extinguishers are more or less useless). Capable seasoned adventurer does not mean capable seasoned electrician. Theres all kinds of jank that could cause something like this. If it get to the electrolyte though its over. Could this be done safely? Yes. Was it? I don’t know. The battery may have made the fire impossible to put out but that doesn’t mean a failure in the battery started it. If, say craptacular wiring or even choice of electric motor was the problem and it got to the battery before it could be put out (I can see a wrong extinguisher choice possibly being key here) then yeah, sort of. This sounds like something that will take weeks to figure out. Strong argument for the right kind of automatic fire suppression though.

 

[LeafNissan1]

Lithium metal fires are “road flare fires”. They basically can’t be put out (there might be special means like burying them in sand or something, but fire extinguishers are more or less useless). Capable seasoned adventurer does not mean capable seasoned electrician. Theres all kinds of jank that could cause something like this. If it get to the electrolyte though its over. Could this be done safely? Yes. Was it? I don’t know. The battery may have made the fire impossible to put out but that doesn’t mean a failure in the battery started it. If, say craptacular wiring or even choice of electric motor was the problem and it got to the battery before it could be put out (I can see a wrong extinguisher choice possibly being key here) then yeah, sort of. This sounds like something that will take weeks to figure out. Strong argument for the right kind of automatic fire suppression though.

You're assuming there was a battery fire. Zero evidence of this at this time. Many, many other possibilities just as likely.

 

[Bombastinator2]

You're assuming there was a battery fire. Zero evidence of this at this time. Many, many other possibilities just as likely.

I got the impression that happened. If the fire never even got to the electrolyte it would be just a standard fire. Maybe not even electrical. I still would want an automatic fire suppression system though. Better have one and not need it than need it and not have it. The fire department has experts though that can tell how a fire started and how it spread. It’s gonna be a while before they weigh in. Jumping to conclusions in this case means likely jumping to the wrong one. Let’s find out what actually happened first before aiming the blame cannon. We don’t even know yet.

 

[LeafNissan1]

I got the impression that happened. If the fire never even got to the electrolyte it would be just a standard fire. Maybe not even electrical. I still would want an automatic fire suppression system though. Better have one and not need it than need it and not have it. The fire department has experts though that can tell how a fire started and how it spread. It’s gonna be a while before they weigh in. Jumping to conclusions in this case means likely jumping to the wrong one. Let’s find out what actually happened first before aiming the blame cannon. We don’t even know yet.

If you got the impression that there was a fire you misunderstood.

I think you must have missed this video: .

The link to that video was in the first sentence of the 4th paragraph of my initial post when I started this thread.

Many have jumped to the conclusion that since this boat was refitted with an electric motor, a Nissan Leaf battery and solar panels, that this somehow must have lead to a catastrophic failure, like a battery fire. This is totally unfounded.

At this time there is no evidence of a fire and since the boat was lost, and will likely never be recovered, we may never know what happened.

The best hope to determine if there was a fire would be if there is evidence of such, something like residue on the bodies or in the lungs of the couple that died.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Oh I believe there was a fire. The thing is no one knows what kind of fire yet. There are people saying the battery didn’t have anything to do with it and I don’t know they're wrong. Fire is famously bad and dangerous on boats. Especially sailboats what with the sheets and sails and all. Also the tend to be made of wood. Old wood that has been marinating in marine lacquer and gasoline for a hundred years. It’s a bad bad combo. Fires on sailboats are so deadly that it’s step1 run like hell. (Sheets are actually not sails. They’re ropes that handle sails. Usually made of cotton for grip in the wet. I remember that one throwing me for a total loop as a kid) This sounds like one that needs to be given time. Fire inspectors tend to be really very good. It’s not instant though. The truth will out eventually.

The real miracle here was that anyone got out alive. If any did. Many don’t. Back in the days of tall ships where everything was covered in pig grease (it can preserve wood indefinitely if it keeps on being applied) the most dangerous weapons were the ones designed to set enemy ships on fire. John Paul Jones loved them.

 

[LeafNissan1]

Oh I believe there was a fire. The thing is no one knows what kind of fire yet. There are people saying the battery didn’t have anything to do with it and I don’t know they're wrong. Fire is famously bad and dangerous on boats. Especially sailboats what with the sheets and sails and all. Also the tend to be made of wood. Old wood that has been marinating in marine lacquer and gasoline for a hundred years. It’s a bad bad combo. Fires on sailboats are so deadly that it’s step1 run like hell. (Sheets are actually not sails. They’re ropes that handle sails. Usually made of cotton for grip in the wet. I remember that one throwing me for a total loop as a kid) This sounds like one that needs to be given time. Fire inspectors tend to be really very good. It’s not instant though. The truth will out eventually.

The real miracle here was that anyone got out alive. If any did. Many don’t. Back in the days of tall ships where everything was covered in pig grease (it can preserve wood indefinitely if it keeps on being applied) the most dangerous weapons were the ones designed to set enemy ships on fire. John Paul Jones loved them.

You believe there was a fire? What are you basing that belief on?

This boat wasn't a wood hull, but in my 50 years experience with boats, including living and cruising on my own sailboat, I never ran across any wooden ones that were "marinated" in gasoline and lacquer. With the advent of synthetic fibers, cotton sheets haven't been widely used as running rigging for decades but irrespective of materials, running rigging wouldn't catch fire unless the boat was already ablaze. There are no "fire inspectors" involved, nor will there be, nothing to inspect, so the "truth" may never be known. And lastly, no one did get out alive, that's a fact.

 

[BillAinCT]

Also the tend to be made of wood. Old wood that has been marinating in marine lacquer and gasoline for a hundred years.

This is a general statement but has no relevance to the boat that went down. It's all speculation but these statements are pushing the envelope to super low odds. I doubt they were making this trip on a boat built in 1924 or older. Maybe it was wood but there's no proof either way.

 

[Bombastinator2]

This is a general statement but has no relevance to the boat that went down. It's all speculation but these statements are pushing the envelope to super low odds. I doubt they were making this trip on a boat built in 1924 or older. Maybe it was wood but there's no proof either way.

True. Theyre still often made of wood though. Plywood covered in fiberglass. People who like sailboats also like traditional so there tends to be a lot of wood. Wood covered in marine laquer. Apparently the company that made the bot stopped existing many years ago. This is also common. Boats don’t wear like cars. My dad had a boat made by chrystler in 1973. If they’re kept up the can last a ridiculously long time, and if they’re not they can be dead in a few months. There is a saying that a sailboat is a hole in the water into which you throw money. To find out what happened the boat is going to have to be found and raised, then forensic fire analysis is going to have to be done. Until then there’s just no info, but the assumption that it was the battery that caused it is likely worse than the assumption that it didn’t. Sailboats are really really flammable. It’s real real possible that the fire was so fast moving that the boat sunk before the battery got hot enough to go. We won’t know till the wreckage is raised. If it ever even is. The only reason fire is even suspected is there was smoke inhalation by the dead people. The most common cause of fire on boats is galley fires.

 

[LeafNissan1]

This is a general statement but has no relevance to the boat that went down. It's all speculation but these statements are pushing the envelope to super low odds. I doubt they were making this trip on a boat built in 1924 or older. Maybe it was wood but there's no proof either way.

Nope, it wasn't wood, it was fiberglass, and there is proof of this fact.

Lots of off-the-wall ridiculous comments, false assumptions, mis-statement of facts, etc. in this thread from those that obviously haven't watched the video and followed the facts of the incident. For example Bombastinator2 continues to insist there was a fire on the boat when there is absolutely zero evidence of this at this time.

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[Bombastinator2]

Nope, it wasn't wood, it was fiberglass, and there is proof of this fact.

Lots of off-the-wall ridiculous comments, false assumptions, mis-statement of facts, etc. in this thread from those that obviously haven't watched the video and followed the facts of the incident. For example Bombastinator2 continues to insist there was a fire on the boat when there is absolutely zero evidence of this at this time.

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Foberglass over what? Generally the what is luan. The curves I see say luan. unless it’s done in a mold and sailboats are usually too big for molds. Luan is a type of plywood. 3 layer Philippine mahogany. That doesn’t matter anyway. People who buy sailboats like things like teak deck plates and such. Teak is really expansive though so it’s generally some other wood covered in marine laquer (teak doesn’t need laquer) sometimes people put it on anyway though. Laquering the wood is often done yearly and the company that made it died a long time ago. Lots of laquer. There were no misstatements except by you. Did watch the video. Missstatement 1. I see at least 2 more in your comment. Off handedly accusing people is often not a good idea. There is molded fiberglass and laid fiberglass. Cars like Corbett’s are molded fiberglass because the parts are small enough. That was a big boat. It could possibly have been molded but I doubt it. That would be one big mold. Also I’m seeing a lot of curves that are smooth. Molded boats tend to have lines and grooves and grip dots and stuff because they can. Laid fiberglass needs to be sanded so it’s smooth. The shape of that boat says laid fiberglass to me.

 

[BillAinCT]

Thanks - yeah I didn't watch the video either because this whole thing all warped into Leaf battery fires. In my mind, if you move a Leaf battery into a boat, and I don't care how it was done, the discussion is over. The battery was designed for an automobile with its electronics and not for use anywhere else.

I almost didn't add this as I think it's time for this topic to wind down. To sail off into the sunset...

 

[LeafNissan1]

Bombastinator2​

It's always advisable to do your homework before making statements like: "boats are usually too big for molds" As the saying goes "a closed mouth gathers no foot".

If you're interested you might want to read more about modern fiberglass boat building at this link: https://www.boats.com/how-to/boat-building-construction-resin-fiberglass-cores/

 

[Bombastinator2]

Thanks - yeah I didn't watch the video either because this whole thing all warped into Leaf battery fires. In my mind, if you move a Leaf battery into a boat, and I don't care how it was done, the discussion is over. The battery was designed for an automobile with its electronics and not for use anywhere else.

I almost didn't add this as I think it's time for this topic to wind down. To sail off into the sunset...

True. Furthermore salt water is both pernicious and electricity conductive. There’s a reason you didn’t see aluminum boats or aluminum anything on salt water boats. It effectively melts in months.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Bombastinator2​

It's always advisable to do your homework before making statements like: "boats are usually too big for molds" As the saying goes "a closed mouth gathers no foot".

If you're interested you might want to read more about modern fiberglass boat building at this link: https://www.boats.com/how-to/boat-building-construction-resin-fiberglass-cores/

View attachment 4871

Yep small boats can be molded. You’ll notice these are maybe 1/5th the size of the sailboat in the video. Boats ARE usually too big for molds. Most boats are bigger than buildings. My half brother had a 35 foot fishing boat which was too small to go into open ocean.so small he didn’t even have to have a slip. (Most boats have to have docking. Slips are for smaller boats). He could trailer it, though he had to buy a big big truck to pull it. (It was laid btw) it could only even fish because its prow was 4 times the size of it stern. You had to keep it pointed into the wind or the swell would kill it. (In open ocean you don’t get waves you get swell. If there are actual waves you’re in trouble) we would go out in 8 foot swell and I regularly saw water higher than me while standing on deck. None of the boats pictured are near that big. Brown water is not blue water. You did homework but you didn’t do enough homework. I wouldn’t put any of the hulls you pictured in open oven and expect them to live a week. They might be on the deck of a boat that I would and used as skiffs though. Theres a fundamental misunderstanding of scale here. None of the boats pictured have functional keels. They’re speedboats. A cigarette boat (so named because they originally were used to smuggle Cigarettes ) are smaller than basically everything. They can only be used in salt water because they’ve got huge engines. If they stop they die. There’s a reason you see everyone on them wearing helmets, life jackets, and wetsuits. They generally have 3 engines. Thats on purpose too.

 

[LeafNissan1]

Foberglass over what? Generally the what is luan. The curves I see say luan. unless it’s done in a mold and sailboats are usually too big for molds. Luan is a type of plywood. 3 layer Philippine mahogany. That doesn’t matter anyway. People who buy sailboats like things like teak deck plates and such. Teak is really expansive though so it’s generally some other wood covered in marine laquer (teak doesn’t need laquer) sometimes people put it on anyway though. Laquering the wood is often done yearly and the company that made it died a long time ago. Lots of laquer. There were no misstatements except by you. Did watch the video. Missstatement 1. I see at least 2 more in your comment. Off handedly accusing people is often not a good idea. There is molded fiberglass and laid fiberglass. Cars like Corbett’s are molded fiberglass because the parts are small enough. That was a big boat. It could possibly have been molded but I doubt it. That would be one big mold. Also I’m seeing a lot of curves that are smooth. Molded boats tend to have lines and grooves and grip dots and stuff because they can. Laid fiberglass needs to be sanded so it’s smooth. The shape of that boat says laid fiberglass to me.

Yep small boats can be molded. You’ll notice these are maybe 1/5th the size of the sailboat in the video. Boats ARE usually too big for molds. Most boats are bigger than buildings. My half brother had a 35 foot fishing boat which was too small to go into open ocean.so small he didn’t even have to have a slip. (Most boats have to have docking. Slips are for smaller boats). He could trailer it, though he had to buy a big big truck to pull it. (It was laid btw) it could only even fish because its prow was 4 times the size of it stern. You had to keep it pointed into the wind or the swell would kill it. (In open ocean you don’t get waves you get swell. If there are actual waves you’re in trouble) we would go out in 8 foot swell and I regularly saw water higher than me while standing on deck. None of the boats pictured are near that big. Brown water is not blue water. You did homework but you didn’t do enough homework. I wouldn’t put any of the hulls you pictured in open oven and expect them to live a week. They might be on the deck of a boat that I would and used as skiffs though.

Most everything you've said is wrong, not to mention being off topic, so at this point I'm going to take Mark Twain's advice:

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”​